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Master Clock for your EtherREGEN


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11 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

It seems like a lot of the clocking posts here are of folks using external clocks to improve individual devices, sometimes using multiple clocks/devices in their audio chains.

Yes, that’s the whole point. And it works very well 😀

 

11 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Q: Is the intent additive precision?

I think yes is the correct answer. By better phase noise, we obtain better SQ. 3D !

 

11 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Q: Is it thought that this approach is more economical and/or yields higher precision than buying "better specs" up front?

That doesn’t seem to be the case. 
Very few, if none manufacturers will add a $1000 or more OCXO to their products. They don’t even bother to add a proper clock at all many times. Even pro equipment has horrible phase noise numbers. 
 

Reasonable priced products, like the EtherRegen and Singxer SU-2, can potentially raise the SQ a lot with the correct AfterDark clock setup. Add an expected new Sonore Rendu with external 10 MHz clock input to the list. 

11 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Honest question. I have no axe to grind here.

And your digital chain is ?

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13 minutes ago, GMG said:

Yeah, better if I explain my chain:

Main ISP router-->Sonore optical deluxe-->single mode fiber--> Etherregen-->miniDSP SHD studio-->Coax out to Chord Qutest

 

I believe recolocking before the DAC will benefit the overall SQ, that's why I'm thinking of Gaia

The miniDSP SHD Studio dosn't have a USB out, so the Singxer SU-2 will not work for me


Not many DDC with SPDIF both in and out, or ? Cause that’s what you’re looking for, right ?

 

I guess your main reason is the Dirac Live. 
The alternative is to apply RC into Roon, if you happen to be a Roon user. Works very well. (Not Dirac).

 

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7 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Dedicated/audio only fiber to home. Nokia ONT, eReGen, Nighthawk WiFi router, Sonore OM, 10m SM fiber, PFBuffalo switch, Taiko Extreme, MScaler, DAVE on DC4, etc.

 

Three dedicated power lines (network gear, general gear, Taiko) and LPS supplies. Seems to work OK. 

Isn’t much place there for a clock 😀

Only the EtherRegen. 
 

If you’re using USB between Taiko and MScaler, and someone invented a ISORegen with clock input maybe 😂

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18 minutes ago, Mouna said:

thank you - how far did you get compared to....


I want to expand this table with price, ohm, power requirements, sine / square etc. 

 

The numbers below speaks by them self. 
As AfterDark, at least with his sine wave clocks supply individual measurements, you may be lucky and get better number. As one guy already have reported. 

 

 

13349625-C77A-4015-9C16-CD7F12D87E54.jpeg

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4 hours ago, soares said:

From what I understand following a reply from Adrian he can make a customized version of every clock with a 75ohm output. 


That’s great. Thanks. 
But these are all sine then I assume. 
 

@AfterDark.

You may confirm the above here yourself. 
 

Also if one purchase a 75 ohm clock, will splitter be added instead of 50 to 75 ohm adapter?

And cable is of cause still Belden.

 

Why not consider a selectable version ? If it’s not lower the phase noise number.


Will the supplied measurement on a 75 ohm version be done in 50 or 75 ohm ? (I think the instrument like to see 50 ohm). 

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There is an update on Group Buy tungsten now. 
 

Price is now $52 for a pure and polished 50x50x10 mm around half kg tungsten block. 
Fright is a bit better and production time is 4 days. 

(And it can of cause be used other places😀). 

 

You can you join and order any time from now.

I just ordered mine. 
 

Here is the link:

 

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If any of you guys is using the EtherRegen the reverse direction, you may waste your money on a clock. 
 

I hope I’m wrong. 
 

I’m saying this cause:

Because of this slight increase in phase noise when going from B to A, if you use a REALLY good external clock (such as a Ref10), you will only get the advantage of such a clock when connecting the B side to the streamer.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-the-long-development-and-active-launch-discussion-thread/page/32/?tab=comments#comment-951313

 

Thanks @James Stephens for the tip 😀

 

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4 minutes ago, soares said:

Opps my case here.

Probably several. 
Well, it’s an inspiration for John and Alex to make the. B side optical. 
 

All this could of cause be verified with phase measurements adding clocks etc., but it’s not the right time to ask for this.

Anyway I can use my clock testing against SU-2 when it’s arriving. I would expect at least 4 weeks from now. And a half kg tungsten is on its way as well. 

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7 minutes ago, PYP said:

from that same quote regarding "flipping" the eR:  

"Whether this is going to be audible, who knows. Remember all the decrease in leakage and external phase noise is still there."

 

I'm going to try this configuration anyway.  But first I'm going to add a second eR (this weekend).   I think there are few absolutes and experimenting is needed.  

 

Now we’re twisting John’s words as we’re reading the Bible 😂


(I’m not discussing the flipping, I’m discussing/questing the effect of adding a clock when flipped). 

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3 hours ago, DSK6 said:

Emperor Double Crown 75Ohm Audiophilestyle special has a sine wave output?

All his clocks is sine, except the one you bought. 
 

3 hours ago, DSK6 said:

or is it that the SQ difference between clock versions is greater than that between square/sine wave?


Good question. I would assume better phase noise, wins over square vs sine.

We haven’t been told how much the EtherRegen will differ from sine vs square. That can probably John measure. 

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Time to do some rereading ?

https://audiophilestyle.com/search/?&q=Square wave&author=JohnSwenson&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/search/?&q=Square wave&author=Superdad&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy


https://audiophilestyle.com/search/?&q=Square wave&author=Clockmeister&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

 

I think the only true answer to this is by certain measurements by specific clocks with EtherRegen. 
My understanding this may be a time consuming process. I don’t know.
 

 @Clockmeister Are you someone that can help in this matter ?
 

The implementation of square wave also matters. Correct ?

I’ve asked also isn’t it better to implement square wave conversion on the receiver side ?

And if not, why ?

 

The measurements I’m really interested in when you’re using the B to A setup, as it has been said long time ago that a clock is highly likely not to do any help in this configuration. 
 

@JohnSwenson

Is it to expect you will do measurements when time allows, on EtherRegen in B>A to verify if it’s a “total” waste or not to use a clock in this specific configuration ?

Could it be said or expected that the degradation is linear, meaning a 140 will become 130 at 10 Hz, and hence a 130 clock will become a 120 one (as an example) ?

Does it now exist components that could made B side 1 GB, or preferably also having SFP interface ?

 

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13 minutes ago, fsmithjack said:

 

Hey Guys,

I just bought the Emperor Crown 75Ohm to use solely with my EtherRegen. Do you guys think it will be an upgrade over the Queen even if not a square wave?

Thanks   

 

 


As pr. phaise noise numbers, the answer is obvious yes. 
 

But if you can hear it, I don’t know. But Adrian says it’s audible. No reason to doubt him. But he can of cause only refer to his system and customers experience. 

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13 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

it's a fact that isn't subject to a debate.


There are different ways to obtain a square, so it’s debatable 

 

You may degenerate the signal so much, you’re better staying away from a square. 
So question is how to determine if a square is done right ?

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18 minutes ago, AfterDark. said:

Sine Wave 50ohm as standard long time ago.

Sine is obviously the best to use, and rather have the receiver convert the signal to square. 
 

Creating a good square isn’t easy. Also square demands better cables.

 

Please keep using sine 50 ohm as your standard, and offer 75 as an option.

 

If you change something in your clocks, I think searching for help, and create a better square output stage is where efforts should be. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

it doesn't matter how loud and long you're going to bark at that tree--that standard won't change.


It doesn’t matter what professional audio uses. They have different requirements. And different frequencies. And the phase noise isn’t good at all. And I’m not sure they even use square wave transfer standard. I don’t think so. 
 

All OCXO internally is 50 ohm.

And sine is the standard. But yes all digital clocking for audio wants square. It may be better to implement sine to square conversion at receiver end. Then you avoid the problem cables any will make and degrade the signal. This is the best way for us as users. 

 

Soon, all clocking needed for audio will be originated from one single clock in your system where signal is over a fiber bus. Devises will just tap from there. It may even be on the same fiber line as music etc. 

You may even get the clock signal over internet. Which actually happens today in some areas.

It may even not be fiber, it can be 5 or even 6G. 


BTW, why is shooting them self ? 

 

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I think i stay with a 75 Ohm BG7TBL at least until John’s paper is out. Or upgrade to AfterDark of cause. 
I will need a second clock for my SU-2. 
It’s attempting to try one small single 50 ohm BG7TBL version in addition on my SU-2. It’s less than $70. But may take 40 days delivery. 

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