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Master Clock for your EtherREGEN


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9 hours ago, R1200CL said:


I agree it’s very strange. I don’t expect @AfterDark. to explain why one year old. 
Given the difference in price, and only 5 dBc away from the Eva, maybe it’s the King one should aim for. 
 

There may, or may not be an availability of already measured King clocks. But maybe potentially buyers should ask for measurements upfront. 
 

If I purchase a second King, I definitely ask for phase noise measurements up front. 
(I will need time to find out of a splitter is enough, or purchase a second one is preferable). 
 

I hooked up just an hour ago. So need some time to evaluate. Sounding good. 

 

Hi! R1200CL,

 

Certainly, we are considering to offer the phase noise measurement upfront if customer would like to know, we have different batches, some better specification on phase noise and Allan Derivation. 

 

Love to hear the King is sounding good, they are excellent choices vs price. The batch is limited production, so you are wise to choose this grade. I know you are very details mind when compared different grades. 

 

Have a nice day and lets join the burn in party.

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator

DAC: Goldmund 21D Convertor Mono Block x 2 

Digital: Mutec MC3-USB,  AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA 

Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Rovox PR99 MKII Open Reel

Digital Player: AfterDark. Rosanna Network Bridge x Roon Bridge OCXO Edition x JS-2

Dealer: SMSL, Gustard, Cybershaft, Pachanko Studio, UpTone Audio, Waversa, DELA

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9 hours ago, R1200CL said:


The clock (and PCB) he use offer square out, so it didn’t take him much effort to offer this.

 

Those that has purchased the Queen should open it, and confirm this. Don’t you ever think you got a special design clock. You never did. It’s all a standard available on AliExpress. 
 

(Nothing necessary wrong with that).

 

 

Hi! R1200CL,

 

We have range of product which can sources from OCXO vendor, so we can get the latest product or parts direct from factory. The Queen square wave is purchase from one of the leading OCXO factory which is converting sine from square wave inside the OCXO module, so there is no convertor outside the OCXO, we choose this approach, as it will gives better performance, so we can implement easily for all EtherREGEN customers. 

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator

DAC: Goldmund 21D Convertor Mono Block x 2 

Digital: Mutec MC3-USB,  AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA 

Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Rovox PR99 MKII Open Reel

Digital Player: AfterDark. Rosanna Network Bridge x Roon Bridge OCXO Edition x JS-2

Dealer: SMSL, Gustard, Cybershaft, Pachanko Studio, UpTone Audio, Waversa, DELA

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6 hours ago, DarqueKnight said:

 

You can go to an automobile dealer and order two automobiles of the same model, with the same body style, same interior, SAME ENGINE, yet with different transmissions, different suspensions, different brakes, different wheels, different tires, and different engine tuning. It would be incorrect to say they are the same automobile, even though they share most of the same parts. The acceleration, braking, cornering, fuel economy, ride comfort, road feel, interior noise level, overall automotive performance, and PRICE will be significantly different. To the casual observer, the automobiles will appear to be the same...until they are both driven under both ordinary and demanding circumstances.

 

The stereophonic performance and build quality of my AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown clock and BG7TBL clocks are substantially different. With regard to build quality, The AfterDark clocks are purposely built with due regard for high performance audio applications. Therefore, it is insulting to say that the AfterDark clocks are only offering something standard that is available for $100 on AliExpress. If I had found that to be true, I would have sent my Emperor Double Crown back, and I certainly would not have ordered an AfterDark Queen clock for my office system.

 

Measurements were taken of the square wave outputs of my AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown clock and one of my BG7TBL clocks.

 

2015519919_ADEDC-BG7TBLSquareWaveComparison001-s.thumb.jpg.2f1fc26f673584aad7310f288b8181d1.jpg

Figure 1. Test setup top level left to right: AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown clock, Tektronix TDS 2012 oscilloscope, Oyaide DB-510 75 ohm 1.3m clock cable, BG7TBL clock, TeraDak DC-30 linear power supply for BG7TBL clock.

 

1739119981_ADEDC-BG7TBLSquareWaveComparison002-s.thumb.jpg.4cc33bdece12f534c64cf8bd1de3994c.jpg

Figure 2. Overhead view of test setup.

 

1835023907_AfterDarkEDC-OyaideDB-510-SquareWavePulseTrain-s.thumb.jpg.756e170cb875818b6dd931ea71cbc8a9.jpg

Figure 3. Square wave pulse train from AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown clock.

 

2253146_BG7TBL-OyaideDB-510-SquareWavePulseTrain-s.thumb.jpg.88b0b35ce69a4704121c92bc8a5b0e9e.jpg

Figure 4. Square wave pulse train from BG7TBL clock.

 

1165293642_AfterDarkEDC-OyaideDB-510-SquareWavePulse-s.thumb.jpg.045aaad1cb672d369f927bf97643e093.jpg

Figure 5. Square wave pulse from AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown clock.

 

505850452_BG7TBL-OyaideDB-510-SquareWavePulse-s.thumb.jpg.914f336538dbaec0abeae4b6c5dbaca9.jpg

Figure 6. Square wave pulse from BG7TBL clock.

 

1086901410_AFterDarkEDCSquWvFFTFlattop-s.thumb.jpg.97c63edb5956c0a331e642d85885ff6c.jpg

Figure 7. Fast Fourier Transform (frequency domain) plot of AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown clock square wave output. The magnitude of the 10 MHz fundamental is 66 dB, 8.8 dB greater than that of the BG7TBL.

 

394594944_BG7TBLSquWvFFTFlattop-s.thumb.jpg.1087b4e732141fc00d6486a32270e0e4.jpg

Figure 8. Fast Fourier Transform (frequency domain) plot of BG7TBL clock square wave output. The magnitude of the 10 MHz fundamental is 57.2 dB, 8.8 dB lower than that of the AfterDark Emperor Double Crown. However, comparing the amplitudes of the time domain square wave pulse trains (figures 3 and 4) shows that the BG7TBL clock has a much higher overall amplitude when all the noise and harmonics are added in.

 

In listening evaluations, stereophonic performance was better when the EtherREGEN was driven by the external BG7TBL clock, compared to the ER's internal Crystek clock. Both the ER and the BG7TBL were powered by linear power supplies. Stereophonic performance was further improved when the BG7TBL clock. was replaced with the Emperor Double Crown clock.

 

As I have said before, I am an audio cheapskate. I would have been thrilled if the BG7TBL was a "giant killer" and I heard very little or no significant difference between the BG7TBL and the AfterDark Emperor Double Crown. My BG7TBLs are good clocks and they provide good performance value for the money, but they are not "giant killers".

 

Hi! DarqueKnight,

 

The Emperor Double Crown Triple Version is customised design and very limited supply every month. So, we are quite confident the performance will be impressed. We would like to share the good feed we just received from latest customer using EDC. 

 

We just released a new clock cable, would you mind to performance review for us? I am quite happy to provide a demo unit for you to performs real listening testing. 

 

 

Have a nice weekend. 

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

 

Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator

DAC: Goldmund 21D Convertor Mono Block x 2 

Digital: Mutec MC3-USB,  AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA 

Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Rovox PR99 MKII Open Reel

Digital Player: AfterDark. Rosanna Network Bridge x Roon Bridge OCXO Edition x JS-2

Dealer: SMSL, Gustard, Cybershaft, Pachanko Studio, UpTone Audio, Waversa, DELA

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@Superdad or @JohnSwenson

I’m using the Cybershaft splitter with Mini-Circuits to feed both the EtherRegen as well as my SU-2 from the very nice AfterDark clock I’ve got. The King has been powered with both LPS-1.2 and dual LPS-1 in series. 

 

However the EtherRegen stops working after a few minutes in this setup. So I need to pull power cable quite often. Setting it back to internal clock is OK. Or removing the splitter I think. 
 

Do you have an explanation to this behavior ?

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26 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

However the EtherRegen stops working after a few minutes in this setup. So I need to pull power cable quite often. Setting it back to internal clock is OK. Or removing the splitter I think.

Must be something about either the splitter, interaction with the SU-2, or just a slight cable problem.  When run from an external clock EtherREGEN does not tolerate even the most brief hiccup in the clock.  That is what is happening and that is why you need to repower.  

Work on your set up a bit and you will likely cure the issue.

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34 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

@Superdad or @JohnSwenson

I’m using the Cybershaft splitter with Mini-Circuits to feed both the EtherRegen as well as my SU-2 from the very nice AfterDark clock I’ve got. The King has been powered with both LPS-1.2 and dual LPS-1 in series. 

 

However the EtherRegen stops working after a few minutes in this setup. So I need to pull power cable quite often. Setting it back to internal clock is OK. Or removing the splitter I think. 
 

Do you have an explanation to this behavior ?

Do you use equal 50 Ohm Clock cables delivered by Afterdark?

Quote

Ethernet::4x Bonn Silent Angel 8P, Afterdark Emperor Doublr  Crown Masterclock and Cybershaft 75 Ohm,Mini Circuits convertor,Uptone EtherRegen with 75Ohm. SOTM Cat CAT 7.

Audio: Auralic Vega G2.1, Cambridge Edge W, Kef Reference 3 speakers.  
Power: Farad super 3 (2x) , Keces P8 ( 2 Uptone LPS1.2 ) Afterdark 5V: 

Cables:Meicord Opal, SOTM Cat7 with filtering, Ghent Audio DC , Farad Level 2, Sharkwire speaker cable

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On 5/1/2021 at 3:22 PM, DarqueKnight said:

Measurement certificate for my AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown clock.

I have problems reading these plots

 

to me it looks -119.5dB at 1 and -132dB at 10....how to read/see -143?

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23 hours ago, DarqueKnight said:

about -143 dBc/Hz

thanks @DarqueKnight

 

My problem was actually not reading the graph but interpreting it correctly. How would I know that a line which consist of constant "spuriae" can be interpreted in a best case way ;-) Are the spuriae measurement artifacts? Or is there a more serious problem around 10Hz where the performance has an issue due to power supply, vibrations or other problems...

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28 minutes ago, Mops911 said:

thanks @DarqueKnight

 

My problem was actually not reading the graph but interpreting it correctly. How would I know that a line which consist of constant "spuriae" can be interpreted in a best case way ;-) Are the spuriae measurement artifacts? Or is there a more serious problem around 10Hz where the performance has an issue due to power supply, vibrations or other problems...

 

A detailed explanation can be found here:

 

https://www.silabs.com/community/blog.entry.html/2018/01/29/timing_101_6_thec-rCpu

 

https://www.silabs.com/community/blog.entry.html/2018/02/26/timing_101_the_case-7BtO

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23 minutes ago, Clockmeister said:

 a comparison between the clocks with regard to measurements then a real listening session

 

wow

any clues as to line-ups - both clocks and listeners

should be most educational!

 

edit: if the design/procedure is amenable, i might be able to help with some basic stats - unlikely to be an authoritative study without substantial n etc - but legitimate stats - and some better than none

My digital system is wired ethernet (RedNet/Dante) but strictly offline. I don't download or stream music from the internet.

System here

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So I got the minicircits filter today 75 ohm. Tried it on etheregen, then on the chiana clock using sine wave. THe BNC is from ghentaudio Belden.  Well, it sucked the life out of the sound.  it got sterile and dead.  Connected the BNC from the square wave to etheregen, better than with the filter, but without the china clock etheregen sounds best.  The best result with the china clock I had - square wave into etheregen with an acrolinc very expensive bnc cable.  That combinatin was quite better than eitheregen alone. 

 

This is my experiment:) and I'm not going the afterdark road..

Emm Labs NS1, Emm Labs DV2, Trusov AMP ( AB class 400 watt into 8 ohm), Vandersteen 5a Carbon, Dyrholm X series cables, etheregen, 2* Farad super3, BG7TBL, RAL RJ45

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/5/2021 at 9:33 AM, Clockmeister said:

A good observation Mops

 

One which we will be delving into in great depth in coming weeks.

 

Any update . Looking forward to hear from you ! 

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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Does anybody know/measured if the Ghent E07 Belden 1694A BNC 75Ω Coax Cable is a genuine 75 Ohm, good cable for BG7BTL?

Roon Server: Gigabyte GA-Z170X UD5, i5 6600, Crucial MX200 SSD, HyperX 1x16GB RAM, Seasonic 520W 80+ PSU, 3 HDD for media, Zalman Z3 Plus case, Win 10 Pro, convolving in Roon digital xo + DRC + upsampling. Output through ethernet.

Roon Client AudioPC: Intel S1200KPR, Xeon E3 1265lv2, Crucial V4 SSD for OS, 8GB ECC RAM, PPA USB card v2, wide range picoPSU, PPA SATA cable for SSD, Streacom FC8 Evo case, lab linear PSU for picoPSU, Windows Server 2012 R2, AudioPhil's Optimizer, Acourate (digital crossovers, room correction )

Rest of Chain:

Uptone ISO Regen (with LPS 1.2) into Lynx Hilo as 6-channel DAC, McIntosh MC275 MkIV for mids & treble, Hypex UcD400HG for midbass into B&W 804S, 2 DIY 12" Rythmik subs, Equi=Core 1800 balanced power, dedicated power lines, room treatments

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46 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Does anybody know/measured if the Ghent E07 Belden 1694A BNC 75Ω Coax Cable is a genuine 75 Ohm, good cable for BG7BTL?

 

If you follow our guidelines--especially when it comes to the BG7TBL clock--then you really don't need to worry about the impedance of that cable.

a) Do not use the square wave output of the BG7TBL--it is lousy. Use the sine wave output.

 

b) With sine wave clock you do not need to be concerned with clock/cable/device impedance matching.

 

c) Get the Mini-Circuits 11MHz low-pass filter we recommend and put that right at the BNC input of the EtherREGEN.

(https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=BLP-10.7%2B or

https://www.adark.co/collections/project-giesemann-ocxo/products/mini-circuits-blp-10-7-low-pass-filter-for-giesemann-clock-group-buy-for-audiophilestyle-com)

 

Read:

 

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

If you follow our guidelines--especially when it comes to the BG7TBL clock--then you really don't need to worry about the impedance of that cable.

a) Do not use the square wave output of the BG7TBL--it is lousy. Use the sine wave output.

 

b) With sine wave clock you do not need to be concerned with clock/cable/device impedance matching.

 

c) Get the Mini-Circuits 11MHz low-pass filter we recommend and put that right at the BNC input of the EtherREGEN.

(https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=BLP-10.7%2B or

https://www.adark.co/collections/project-giesemann-ocxo/products/mini-circuits-blp-10-7-low-pass-filter-for-giesemann-clock-group-buy-for-audiophilestyle-com)

 

Read:

 

But if your BG7TBL clock have only squarewave output where from my experience clock cables still matter I recommend for you this clock cable https://www.amazon.com/Laird-Digital-Cinema-4794R-B-B-003-Assembly/dp/B01MTOKUFI.  it is made from very good Belden 4794R bulk wire.

 

I compare Belden 4794R to another amazon available clock cable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N6XL1XW/ref=twister_B01MUH69P1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1   what a lot people recommended and found Belden sounding much better.

 

I like Belden 1694A RCA terminated on S/PDIF position but how this type of coaxial sounding like clock cable I do not have idea.

 

 

NUC7i7DNBE Akasa Plato fanless case(Windows 10 Pro bridged,LMS)>Cisco WS-C2960G-8TC-L> 2x Buffalo BS-GS2016>Buffalo BS-GS2008>Uptone EtherRegen>BG7TBL master clock>Sonore MicroRendu 1.4>Singxer F-1>Wyred 4 Sound Remedy>Lite DAC60>Schiit Audio Mjolnir 2>Hifiman HE1000

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2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

If you follow our guidelines--especially when it comes to the BG7TBL clock--then you really don't need to worry about the impedance of that cable.

a) Do not use the square wave output of the BG7TBL--it is lousy. Use the sine wave output.

 

b) With sine wave clock you do not need to be concerned with clock/cable/device impedance matching.

 

c) Get the Mini-Circuits 11MHz low-pass filter we recommend and put that right at the BNC input of the EtherREGEN.

(https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=BLP-10.7%2B or

https://www.adark.co/collections/project-giesemann-ocxo/products/mini-circuits-blp-10-7-low-pass-filter-for-giesemann-clock-group-buy-for-audiophilestyle-com)

 

Read:

 

 

yes, I've read the paper and followed the comments about minicircuits. Unfortunately some weeks before John published the paper I had purchased the BG7BTL with square waves only . My recollection is DarqueKnight measured the BG7BTL square waves with different 75ohm cables and one that came with a unit (a DCS?) measured well despite being cheap. Some have reported good results with BG7BTL square waves, so I'm checking in Ghent makes suitable cables as I will be ordering a couple other cables from them.

Roon Server: Gigabyte GA-Z170X UD5, i5 6600, Crucial MX200 SSD, HyperX 1x16GB RAM, Seasonic 520W 80+ PSU, 3 HDD for media, Zalman Z3 Plus case, Win 10 Pro, convolving in Roon digital xo + DRC + upsampling. Output through ethernet.

Roon Client AudioPC: Intel S1200KPR, Xeon E3 1265lv2, Crucial V4 SSD for OS, 8GB ECC RAM, PPA USB card v2, wide range picoPSU, PPA SATA cable for SSD, Streacom FC8 Evo case, lab linear PSU for picoPSU, Windows Server 2012 R2, AudioPhil's Optimizer, Acourate (digital crossovers, room correction )

Rest of Chain:

Uptone ISO Regen (with LPS 1.2) into Lynx Hilo as 6-channel DAC, McIntosh MC275 MkIV for mids & treble, Hypex UcD400HG for midbass into B&W 804S, 2 DIY 12" Rythmik subs, Equi=Core 1800 balanced power, dedicated power lines, room treatments

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