MartinT Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 Thank you, John. I was just listing all the things I could think of that bore consideration, apart from phase noise. I understand that drift is not of any importance to audio applications (although it might matter to a ham radio operator). TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 7 hours ago, R1200CL said: @MartinT Maybe you can write a nice opening post for a new tread. Or you @ambre ? Summarize from various post and knowledge collected in this tread. I will leave this to @AfterDark. to do as it will be their sponsored area and I do not have one of their products. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
Popular Post MartinT Posted January 27, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 27, 2021 I use PowerPoint, which has easy tools to use. PYP, soares, AfterDark. and 1 other 2 1 1 TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 hours ago, GMG said: Nice sketch and impressive power management! I see you have ground connection from all front end boxes, some seem to be signal ground and some are chassis/safety. Where do they all connect to? Also, why did you chose to feed ER with sine and Mutec with square? I thought ER prefers square and Mutec sine. Thanks! All of those front end ground connections are to individual grounding boxes - Black Ravioli Eflos or SGS, connected to signal ground planes. They are independent and not connected together. My OCXO has one square and two sinewave outputs. I did first of all give the ER square and Mutec sine, then I swapped them around and preferred it that way. Listening impressions always win! I suspect the Mutec, being closer to the DAC, needs the best possible clock signal as it does power and DC cable. PYP 1 TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
Popular Post MartinT Posted January 30, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 For those of you doubtful of how well the inexpensive BG7TBL OCXO responds to a good power supply, I have just moved over to a Coherent QP-1 supercap power supply, specified for 12.5V to ensure that the onboard regulator does its job. This output is rated at 4A and Tony at Coherent showed me how tight the regulation is with that load on it. The supercap is rated at around 0.1F. The previous LPSU was perfectly up to the job, but the QP-1 takes it up a notch and a bit. Music has become even more vivid, dynamic and exciting, with bass punch that gets my Ushers really kicking and moving air. Yes, the QP-1 cost ten times that of the BG7TBL but then, I know how much difference attention to power makes across my system. Avalfa, PYP and GryphonGuy 2 1 TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, GMG said: is the effect of Jitter in the early stages fixed/improved by clock/re-clockers or do these devices just reduce the Jitter at their output I would say that the number of us who have reduced jitter/phase noise along the digital replay chain and found sonic benefits have proven the case. For me, using two reclockers (ER and Mutec), ultra low noise power supplies and grounding boxes for each stage has definitely provided the cleanest possible signal into my DAC, and that is the ultimate goal. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 Yes, jitter is time domain noise whereas phase noise is frequency domain noise. Both are deleterious to sound quality. R1200CL 1 TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 From my understanding: jitter/phase noise comes in from the broadband stream (whether cable/phone/air) and is introduced at each component stage by its own circuit and by the power supply. Therefore, you want each stage to reduce the overall noise by using well selected components and very low noise power supplies. The final component, just before the DAC, needs to be of the highest quality and with the best power supply of all. Of course, the DAC is the ultimate limiting factor and needs, itself, to have a very low noise power supply and high quality clock. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 6 hours ago, GMG said: I guess what I'm asking is, if the last link in the chain is equipped with the best clocking which provides the best handling/correction of Phase&Jitter, does correcting the phase/jitter earlier on in the chain matter or not. Rather like PSRR (Power Supply Rejection Ratio), it's going to be a ratio of improvement. In other words, no final link in the chain is ever going to remove all the jitter/phase noise from the feed. Those using serial ERs have already acknowledged that, as have I with ER and Mutec. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 I am powering both clock and ER from a dual output Coherent QP-1 power supply (albeit isolated outputs) and the benefits are large. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
Popular Post MartinT Posted February 7, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2021 33 minutes ago, R1200CL said: It seems good clocks is now the area where digital audio can be improved. Still I don’t understand at what cost. And it’s just not cost of the clock itself. New case, new packing, higher shipping weight and size. It all adds up. And in addition higher price may lower the volume. (And profit). Which is where this thread started. You can improve your system's performance with a very inexpensive Chinese OCXO clock. So inexpensive, in fact, that it's worth just trying one to hear for yourself. That way, you can gain some experience rather than endlessly considering more and more expensive options. If, after that, you want to explore higher end options, at least you'll have a baseline reference and an opinion. magnuska, soares, ZeusOdin and 4 others 6 1 TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 It depends if you want one square and two sinewave outputs. Some are selling with all three squarewave. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 16 hours ago, James Stephens said: IMO feet for the clock should be chosen not to drain mechanical energy (e.g spikes) but to protect it from external vibrations. This is why for instance the Mutec Ref 10 has feet which included a rubber ring for this purpose. I went with Herbies Tenderfeet. This is a mantra for my entire system. There is not a spike anywhere, they work counter to my intuition and tend to give a brightness or sheen that obscures detail. It's why my whole system uses Black Ravioli footers under everything. They are remarkable in absorbing vibration and damping the component. The tungsten thing was more of it sounded like a good idea so let's try it. It works remarkably well and was an easy mod to apply. The OCXO definitely benefits in overall sound quality. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 The cable from the B side to your streamer is critical as you have just taken the trouble to clean up the noise using the ER. You now need to keep it clean. Cable length and further pickup of RFI are to be avoided. I use a 12cm Cat6 link (that's very short) from ER to my ultraRendu and, even then, I can hear the difference between four different links I've tried. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 hour ago, DarqueKnight said: Answers: 1. 50 ohms. 2. NDK 2525. I think you've not read this thread fully. A few of us have asked for and received 75 ohm units. It's easy to verify by looking at the BNC connectors. There are at least three brands of OCXO clocks used. Both my active and spare one use DAPU. Also, some units are single square and dual sinewave, while others are triple squarewave. It depends on what you want. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 Ah, my apologies, I misread the sense of your post. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 31 minutes ago, DSK6 said: Martin, I don't doubt what you heard but have you rigorously compared different lengths of the SAME cable (eg. 1m vs 8m)? Not ethernet, no. Life is too short to rigorously test everything. I have done much more testing with power cables where the differences are even more obvious. The ones which shield RFI/EMI the best (Coherent cables) sound the best. Shorter better than longer. I just today replaced the last non-Coherent power cable with a Coherent one. Despite everything else being optimised, I could still hear an improvement. Same connectors, thicker cable, inferior RFI/EMI shielding sounded worse. I'm not too bothered by persuading others of their merits any more, I just relate what I can hear. Despite being an electronics engineer, it's what I hear that counts with music. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
Popular Post MartinT Posted February 27, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2021 2 hours ago, GMG said: could you link those Coherent cables you describe? could not find them for some reason Small UK company that makes outstanding cables (the best I've ever used) and sell cool kit like the Mutec. I use their power, speaker, interconnect and DC cables and highly recommend them. Coherent Systems - Coherent Systems | Home Audio Specialists | (coherent-systems.co.uk) GMG and fsmithjack 1 1 TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 20 minutes ago, ambre said: Expansive cables maybe very nice cables. Never heard about. But you have a really cheap BG7 Master Clock... €90,00 . till you hear the difference with Afterdark Giesemann medium spec. The Giesemann is a real uplift in SQ. Hi Andreas My system may appear price unbalanced but don't be fooled by that, all the components are working very well in harmony. Where necessary, I have spent the most I can afford - e.g. my wonderful Usher speakers, and most of my cables. In other areas, I have experimented with something inexpensive that works extremely well - e.g. the BG7TBL clock, Canare LV-77S cables and the 4G router. I am certain that my clock can be improved upon - at a price. However, I still maintain that the Chinese mast clocks are very well specified and sound considerably better than the internal clocks in both the ER and Mutec. The purpose of this thread was just to get people listening by trying an inexpensive clock that most could afford. Thank you for comparing the BG7 with the Afterdark Giesemann. I am sufficiently intrigued that I will make contact later in the year. Right now, though, I have blown my hi-fi savings on the last of the Coherent power cables and am enjoying my system very much. Regards Martin R1200CL 1 TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
Popular Post MartinT Posted February 27, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2021 Both of mine are 30cm and that's short for the paths to the ER and Mutec. I couldn't get it any less. R1200CL, Exocer and MasterWarzombie 3 TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, GMG said: What is that sticking out of the right side of the Mutec? Did you have it custom fitted for external DC? Yes, it's modified by Coherent for external 5V operation (Coherent QP-1 supercap PSU). TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, ambre said: Hi Martin, doorstopper special. I am using the same. But can make a picture upfront from EtherRegen and Lps1.2 . What kind op power supplies you use . The Coherent? What does this costs in UK. Due to Brexit I have to add additional VAT besides simport and shipping costs. The Coherent QP-1 dual isolated output supercap PSUs are bespoke made and cost about £1500 each. One of mine is 5V + 8V for the Mutec and ultraRendu. The other is 12.5V + 12V for the BG7 and ER. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 hours ago, DarqueKnight said: @MartinT What are those four silver cylindrical vibration damping devices? German Schramm door stoppers. I have 8 of them. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, James Stephens said: I feel like my ER + LPS-1.2 could benefit from some added mass but I am also cognisant of their temperature so my goto of adding a granite block didn’t seem appropriate. I bought an aluminum heatsink but it felt too light so I didn’t deploy it .... thinking of trying copper ... 3 times denser and higher thermal conductivity to boot. I installed a heatsink and then put a door stopper on top. Keeps the ER cool and the door stopper stops the fins from resonating. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
MartinT Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, James Stephens said: Ah. Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I see now from year earlier pic they are raised up ... what’s the rectangular thing in between? Granite coaster. Not sure what you call them in the US, you put them under a glass. TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer > Gustard U18 DDC > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark clocks x 2. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. https://theaudiostandard.net Link to comment
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