Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[FIndingit]

Does After Dark really claim their ocxo modules are brand new and unused? As far as I know neither Cybershaft or Mutec do that. 

[DarqueKnight]

6 hours ago, GMG said:

I was wondering about the longevity of OCXO in general. 
do they degrade over time?

how are they compared to “regular” audio clocks?

 

@JohnSwenson addressed that question here:

 

On 12/31/2020 at 8:47 PM, JohnSwenson said:

I've said this many times before but I'll say it again. What matters for digital audio is the phase noise, the absolute accuracy, and the aging (drift over time) and temperature coefficient do not matter. These are all so good that they will not even come into the picture for digital audio.

 

The lowest phase noise is produced by the best crystal oscillators, period. All these other types of clocks (mostly "atomic clocks" such as rubidium, cesium, hydrogen maser, cesium fountain) all have lousy phase noise, but great long term stability (fractions of a part per billion), which is completely meaningless for digital audio. The time it will take to get a one second error is greater than the age of the universe, but that is meaningless for digital audio!

 

John S.

 

[DarqueKnight]

12 minutes ago, FIndingit said:

Does After Dark really claim their ocxo modules are brand new and unused? As far as I know neither Cybershaft or Mutec do that. 

 

AfterDark claims that their Giesemann OCXOs are a new design:

 

 

[FIndingit]

New design does not imply the modules are unused. Their origin remains a trade secret. 

[R1200CL]

13 minutes ago, FIndingit said:

Their origin remains a trade secret. 

Not so sure you’re correct. He says https://www.oscilloquartz.com/. 
However I’m struggling to find any clocks there. 

[DarqueKnight]

Now would be a good time to post a question to @AfterDark. on the AfterDark forum about the provenance of their OCXOs.

[R1200CL]

1 minute ago, DarqueKnight said:

Now would be a good time to post a question to @AfterDark. on the AfterDark forum about the provenance of their OCXOs.

So would internal pictures as well as answering my questions about generic design, upgrade program etc. 

 

One guy even believe it’s the same clock everywhere. That can’t be the case. 

[FIndingit]

11 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Not so sure you’re correct. He says https://www.oscilloquartz.com/. 
However I’m struggling to find any clocks there. 

That does not refer to the ocxos used in After Dark products but to the grading system which is similar to the one used I.e. by Oscilloquartz. 

[LewinskiH01]

Still about BG7TBL clock, DAC and eR: the clock is specified as 3.3Vpp, while the DAC is specified as 5Vpp. Not sure what the eR is specified for, but evidently works with the 3.3Vpp from this clock. I'm hoping the BG7TBL can be leveraged for the DAC as well, though.

 

Would a 3.3Vpp clock not work with a DAC designed for 5Vpp on the word clock input? DAC has 75 Ohm input and does expect a square wave, and says the frequency is determined by the clock, so 10MHz seems OK.

 

Thank you!

[JohnSwenson]

On 2/28/2021 at 2:57 PM, LewinskiH01 said:

 

I'm reading up this thread with much interest.

 

Back in page 21 YY posted about Merging NADAC needing a 625kHz clock input and it seemed the 10MHz wouldn't work for him and he would need a frequency-adjustable unit. But the quoted post mentions a Horus used with a 10MHz clock with apparently good results. So would the BG7TBL 10MHz OCXO discussed in this thread work with a Horus?

 

I'm waiting for HamRadioshop to get these back in stock to get one. At a minimum it should improve the eR. If it can also improve the DAC...that would be even sweeter.

I don't have a Horus, but looking at the user manual it seems the wordclock is REALLY a wordclock, ie it runs at 44.1KHz, 96KHz, 192KHz etc. It has to match the sample rate of whatever you are playing. It is NOT a 10MHz reference clock.

 

John S.

[LewinskiH01]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

I don't have a Horus, but looking at the user manual it seems the wordclock is REALLY a wordclock, ie it runs at 44.1KHz, 96KHz, 192KHz etc. It has to match the sample rate of whatever you are playing. It is NOT a 10MHz reference clock.

 

John S.

 

Thank you John!

 

Would it make sense to use a clock such as the BG7TBL for eR only and leave the synchronous USB DAC with it's own clock?

 

Regards

 

PS: I'm highly appreciative of the time you take to answer user questions!

[LewinskiH01]

HamRadioshop seller on Aliexpress has been out of stock of the BG7BTL clock, but now has it back. 75 ohm, 3 square wave signals.

 

I've inquired about the OCXO currently in use and received "SYMM" for an answer. Googling I found a Symmetricom STP2695LF 10MHz OCXO, but the seller hasn't confirmed if Symm means Symmetricom, nor the model. My intent is to check the phase noise specs, per this thread. Seller says "don't worry; it's the same high quality".

 

Does anybody have any insight that can help me? Anybody received a BG7TBL with a SYMM? Does SYMM=Symmetricom?

[R1200CL]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001245799329.html
 

I will soon post about a group buy for a 50X50X10 mm tungsten block. (About 480 gram). 

 

It would be nice if anyone purchased the AfterDark clock would like to check if it fits that clock as well. 

[JohnSwenson]

On 3/2/2021 at 1:51 AM, LewinskiH01 said:

 

Thank you John!

 

Would it make sense to use a clock such as the BG7TBL for eR only and leave the synchronous USB DAC with it's own clock?

 

Regards

 

PS: I'm highly appreciative of the time you take to answer user questions!

The Horus is designed to be used as a recording device in a studio, not a playback device for home use. Modern studios will have a "house wordclock" which is set to the sample rate they use in that studio. All the digital gear gets fed that wordclock so they all stay synchronized. For playback use, IF you feed the Horus a wordclock it will run at that sample rate ONLY, you can only play files at that specific sample rate. I'm not sure what happens if you try and play something at a different sample rate, there are four option I can come up with, and I cannot tell from the user manual which it will do:

 

play the file at the wordclock rate, which will mean everything is faster or slower and pitches will be shifted

not play anything (dead silence comes out)

Use internal circuitry to resample to the sample rate of the external wordclock

switch over to its internal clock, set to the rate of whatever you are playing

 

Given this it is probably best to not feed it an external wordclock.

 

John S.

[pietka08]

4 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Sprzedawca HamRadioshop na Aliexpress nie ma na stanie zegara BG7BTL, ale teraz ma go z powrotem. 75 omów, 3 sygnały prostokątne.

 

Zapytałem o aktualnie używany OCXO i otrzymałem "SYMM" z odpowiedzią. Googling Znalazłem Symmetricom STP2695LF 10MHz OCXO, ale sprzedawca nie potwierdził, czy Symm oznacza Symmetricom, ani model. Moim zamiarem jest sprawdzenie specyfikacji szumów fazowych, zgodnie z tym wątkiem. Sprzedawca mówi „nie martw się, to ta sama wysoka jakość”.

 

Czy ktoś ma jakiś wgląd, który może mi pomóc? Czy ktoś otrzymał BG7TBL z SYMM? Czy SYMM = Symmetricom?

I have one like in the picture. It says SYMM, so I conclude it's Symmetricom.

[R1200CL]

Here is group buy to add a block on top of your OCXO as the picture above b

 

[LewinskiH01]

4 hours ago, pietka08 said:

I have one like in the picture. It says SYMM, so I conclude it's Symmetricom.

Thank you!!

It has to be this one. I can't find phase noise specs online, though. The hits I got were on eBay and it was described as a sine wave oscillator. Does your BG7BTL have square wave outputs?

 

Are you using it with eR? Happy with the results?

 

Regards

[Freddiekaberman]

Currently very happy with my BG7BTL clock which is also a Symmetricom type. I cannot for the life of me find any specifications on this - I suspect MORION might have made it for them.

 

I thought I would try a DIY clock cable to compare with my standard Van Damme version. Why not, we are still in lockdown here!

 

So, I have made up a nice cable using a 50cm length of Neotech NEVD 2001 75 ohm. This has a silver core and 2 braided shields separated by a layer of PTFE. The general advice on terminating this cable is to connect both shields to the BNC at the source end, but connect only the INNER shield on the receive end, leaving the outer shield floating.

 

This was not successful on the ER, it just wouldn't boot up properly regardless of the order of power cycling ER and clock. I then tried the cable in the opposite direction, connecting the source end of the cable to the ER, et voila a result!

 

I am new to DIY cables and shielding and interested to learn more, could anyone throw any light on why the shielding arrangement and direction might have this effect? 

 

I'll report separately on the SQ in a few days when I feel it is bedded in. No big expectations, but interested to see what it does if anything.

[pietka08]

13 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Dziękuję Ci!!

To musi być ten. Nie mogę jednak znaleźć w Internecie specyfikacji szumów fazowych. Trafienia, które otrzymałem, były na eBayu i zostały opisane jako oscylator fali sinusoidalnej. Czy twój BG7BTL ma wyjścia fali prostokątnej?

 

Czy używasz go z eR? Zadowolony z wyników?

 

pozdrowienia

Yes I bought it purely for the ER. Unfortunately there is no description of the wave type on the housing of my BG7BTL. I plugged the cable into input #1 and #3 and saw better quality at #3 input. I can't verify it but I am now very happy with the sound quality of my system.

I am powering the BGT7BTL with a Farad S3 with their silver cable, and the ER on the advice of one of the forumers with a cheap power supply from China. I'm still experimenting with ethrnet cables, for now DesignaCable CATSNAKE Cat6a won.
As you can see, I do not know myself and try the solutions proposed on this forum with excellent results. 

Thank you all

 

[sandston]

MartinT you win the Frugal Audiophile Award for 2020.

 

All I can say about this $100 clock is WOW!

 

Like most of you I bought this on a whim. It sat around for awhile until last week. I plugged it into my Etherrendu. Over the last two nights I have been listening to a whole new system. Attack, immediacy, localization, bass prowess and soundstage width and depth have all improved. There is nothing subtle about it. I am honestly having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that this little box in this part of the chain is doing all this. I am experiencing a slight bit of upper mid stridency or hash however I am pretty confident this is coming from somewhere else in the chain. I believe its always been there but it, like all things, have been amplified. I will hunt it down and destroy it!

 

I have the 3x75ohm model with a Symmetricon clock. FYI my Etherendu is powered by a Uptone LPS 1.2 and the clock is powered by one of four outputs on my HDplex LPS 300w. I have .5m Geistnote's Apogee Wyde Eye 75Ω BNC Word Clock Cable from Amazon. Cost $45. 

[pietka08]

2 hours ago, sandston said:

MartinT wygrywasz nagrodę Frugal Audiophile Award na rok 2020.

 

 

I sign it with my arms and legs. MartinT 👍

I also put in a tungsten block, following the example of MartinT, although here I am not convinced about the improvement of the SQ, it certainly did not break anything.

I recommend the BNC clock cable audio-IN Digitalkabel 75 Ohm, you can buy it on German eBay for 40 euros. I have ordered a Geistnote Apogee Wyde Eye 75 Ω, but it has been traveling to me for two months and I lost hope that it would come one day.

 

[LewinskiH01]

Thanks folks for the visibility on having the Symmetricon version and being happy. I placed my order.

I guess I now need to look into the 75 ohm cable.

 

Can't wait already! 😊 

 

Thank you!

[fsmithjack]

Ok guys/gals - PLEASE HELP ... 

 

My After Dark Queen Square Wave Master Clock is landing today. Just got USPS text Update.
 

Can you please help and answer a few questions? 

 

* How do I power it?

 

* Do I need to use my eR backwards?

 

* If so what goes in a and what in b?

 

My issue is I have 2 separate LPS power supplies and 3 items that need powering. 
 

Both LPS have multiple power rails but both LPS share grounds internally. 
 

ITEMS THAT NEED POWER 

 

- Uptone EtherRegen  

- sonicTransporter I5

- After Dark Clock - Queen Sq wave 

 

POWER SUPPLIES 

- Uptone JS-2 (2-rails) 

- W4S PS-1 (4-rails) 

 

Note: before clock gets here today I am using JS-2 to power sonicTransporter and PS-1 to power EtherRegen and everything is great.
 

How now do I introduce the master clock?

 

What plugs into what on the EtherRegen? How do I used it backwards properly? 

 

thank you 

 

P.S.
 

I bought an Apogee Wyde Eye BNC Clock Cable - 6inches for $35. Should I use this or the cable that comes with the clock? Thanks 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

 

 

[PYP]

1 hour ago, fsmithjack said:

ITEMS THAT NEED POWER 

 

- Uptone EtherRegen  

- sonicTransporter I5

- After Dark Clock - Queen Sq wave 

 

POWER SUPPLIES 

- Uptone JS-2 (2-rails) 

- W4S PS-1 (4-rails) 

 

Note: before clock gets here today I am using JS-2 to power sonicTransporter and PS-1 to power EtherRegen and everything is great.
 

How now do I introduce the master clock?

 

What plugs into what on the EtherRegen? How do I used it backwards properly? 

 

thank you 

 

P.S.
 

I bought an Apogee Wyde Eye BNC Clock Cable - 6inches for $35. Should I use this or the cable that comes with the clock? Thanks 

just one opinion:  since everything sounds great, and to keep it simple, use the W4s to power the clock and don't change the orientation of the eR or how you use the JS2.  Then let everything settle in for a month before trying any other configuration (we may not want to by then .  Remember that the clock needs to be connected and powered on, before you power the eR, so the steps are:  

 

1.  disconnect the JS2 power cord to the eR 

2.  slide the switch on the eR that indicates you now have an external clock

3.  connect clock to the eR with clock cable (push in and then twist the metal connector to lock into place.  sometimes it is easier to do the clock side first before it is placed in your rack, just be careful not to stress the cord)

4.  power up the clock 

5.  check that any LEDs on the clock that indicate it is now working

6.  reconnect the JS2 cord to the eR

 

enjoy!

 

My clock too 1 month to completely stabilize.  AfterDark has most likely told you how long its clock will take.  In the meantime, you will most likely already have better sound than before.  Everything smooths out over the month and then blossoms.  Fun stuff!

 

 

[R1200CL]

We definitely need fiber optic clock signals in the future. If Uptone, (Sonore), and AfterDark built this interface into products, we solved this isolation issues and need of several power supplies. 
 

@Superdad

Isn't such an interface quite straight forward, as long as the physical interface is chosen ?

What’s the drawback, if any ?