Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[LewinskiH01]

On 1/25/2021 at 10:11 AM, AfterDark. said:

 

We have one customer feedback, he is the owner and the finest audio engineer to help recording music since 1960s, stationed in Hong Kong. He was using the full set of Merging HORUS/ , Studer and 10 Master Clock for recording live and playback of recording. 

 

Mr. Raymond is one of the very first audiophile customer to make purchase of UpTone EtherREGEN, UpTone JS-2 x 2 units, he just cannot live without the 10M Master Clock for music playback, the improvement is huge. 

 

 

I'm reading up this thread with much interest.

 

Back in page 21 YY posted about Merging NADAC needing a 625kHz clock input and it seemed the 10MHz wouldn't work for him and he would need a frequency-adjustable unit. But the quoted post mentions a Horus used with a 10MHz clock with apparently good results. So would the BG7TBL 10MHz OCXO discussed in this thread work with a Horus?

 

I'm waiting for HamRadioshop to get these back in stock to get one. At a minimum it should improve the eR. If it can also improve the DAC...that would be even sweeter.

[LewinskiH01]

1 hour ago, James Stephens said:

Hi there, could it perhaps be that the Studer is fed a 10MHz Master clock and that it generates a Word Clock for the Merging Horus? Best, James

Mmm...not sure what this means. What is the Studer?

Regards

[LewinskiH01]

Still about BG7TBL clock, DAC and eR: the clock is specified as 3.3Vpp, while the DAC is specified as 5Vpp. Not sure what the eR is specified for, but evidently works with the 3.3Vpp from this clock. I'm hoping the BG7TBL can be leveraged for the DAC as well, though.

 

Would a 3.3Vpp clock not work with a DAC designed for 5Vpp on the word clock input? DAC has 75 Ohm input and does expect a square wave, and says the frequency is determined by the clock, so 10MHz seems OK.

 

Thank you!

[LewinskiH01]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

I don't have a Horus, but looking at the user manual it seems the wordclock is REALLY a wordclock, ie it runs at 44.1KHz, 96KHz, 192KHz etc. It has to match the sample rate of whatever you are playing. It is NOT a 10MHz reference clock.

 

John S.

 

Thank you John!

 

Would it make sense to use a clock such as the BG7TBL for eR only and leave the synchronous USB DAC with it's own clock?

 

Regards

 

PS: I'm highly appreciative of the time you take to answer user questions!

[LewinskiH01]

HamRadioshop seller on Aliexpress has been out of stock of the BG7BTL clock, but now has it back. 75 ohm, 3 square wave signals.

 

I've inquired about the OCXO currently in use and received "SYMM" for an answer. Googling I found a Symmetricom STP2695LF 10MHz OCXO, but the seller hasn't confirmed if Symm means Symmetricom, nor the model. My intent is to check the phase noise specs, per this thread. Seller says "don't worry; it's the same high quality".

 

Does anybody have any insight that can help me? Anybody received a BG7TBL with a SYMM? Does SYMM=Symmetricom?

[LewinskiH01]

4 hours ago, pietka08 said:

I have one like in the picture. It says SYMM, so I conclude it's Symmetricom.

Thank you!!

It has to be this one. I can't find phase noise specs online, though. The hits I got were on eBay and it was described as a sine wave oscillator. Does your BG7BTL have square wave outputs?

 

Are you using it with eR? Happy with the results?

 

Regards

[LewinskiH01]

Thanks folks for the visibility on having the Symmetricon version and being happy. I placed my order.

I guess I now need to look into the 75 ohm cable.

 

Can't wait already! 😊 

 

Thank you!

[LewinskiH01]

@DarqueKnight

My BG7BTL from RadioHam arrived too. I had a similar experience to your. 

 

The inside looks the same:

 

And so does the front. I've ask the seller how to know if the outputs are sine or square. Mine looks like your RadioHam unit with three 75 ohm outputs, but also no reference for sine/square.

 

How do you know which is which?

[LewinskiH01]

Does anybody know/measured if the Ghent E07 Belden 1694A BNC 75Ω Coax Cable is a genuine 75 Ohm, good cable for BG7BTL?

[LewinskiH01]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

If you follow our guidelines--especially when it comes to the BG7TBL clock--then you really don't need to worry about the impedance of that cable.

a) Do not use the square wave output of the BG7TBL--it is lousy. Use the sine wave output.

 

b) With sine wave clock you do not need to be concerned with clock/cable/device impedance matching.

 

c) Get the Mini-Circuits 11MHz low-pass filter we recommend and put that right at the BNC input of the EtherREGEN.

(https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=BLP-10.7%2B or

https://www.adark.co/collections/project-giesemann-ocxo/products/mini-circuits-blp-10-7-low-pass-filter-for-giesemann-clock-group-buy-for-audiophilestyle-com)

 

Read:

 

 

yes, I've read the paper and followed the comments about minicircuits. Unfortunately some weeks before John published the paper I had purchased the BG7BTL with square waves only . My recollection is DarqueKnight measured the BG7BTL square waves with different 75ohm cables and one that came with a unit (a DCS?) measured well despite being cheap. Some have reported good results with BG7BTL square waves, so I'm checking in Ghent makes suitable cables as I will be ordering a couple other cables from them.

[LewinskiH01]

5 hours ago, mfaoro said:

Alright. My understanding of the moat idea is sketchy at best. Im thinking about buying a Mutec Clock. It has its own, internal LPS so it would be plugged into my power conditioner. Does the following sketch break the moat in the ER that is connected to my Nucleus and Linn DSM?

 

Red=power, Green=network/clock connections

 

 

Wanted to ask you about the purpose of the OpticalModule in-between eRs. Why do this vs fiber from eR1 to eR2?

Which "LPS3" do you use to power eR+cable modem?

 

Regards

[LewinskiH01]

Hello.

 

Today I tried to use my LPS-1.2 to power the BG7BTL and had an error. I believe others have used this combination without problem so I'm wondering what might be wrong?

 

The LPS-1.2 is set to 12V, powered by the supplied Uptone SMPS, connected to the BG7BTL thru a Ghent DC cable. Upon turning on the LPS the led goes from red to orange and when it wants to turn green the power and alarm leds on the BG7BTL blink briefly and go off and the led on LPS blinks red, and this cycle continues for as long as keep the LPS on. The BG7BTL output wasn't connected, if that makes a difference. 

 

Why might this be happening? 

[LewinskiH01]

@Superdad

Thank you!

I will leave the clock on overnight and try tomorrow with LPS...hoping a warm clock doesn't demand as much current...unlikely to work, but it's cheap to try.

 

@Mihaylov

It's a Symmetricom. 

 

It's interesting others with BG7BTL with Symmetricom ocxo and LPS-1.2 didn't have this issue.

[LewinskiH01]

On 8/28/2021 at 8:01 PM, LewinskiH01 said:

@Superdad

Thank you!

I will leave the clock on overnight and try tomorrow with LPS...hoping a warm clock doesn't demand as much current...unlikely to work, but it's cheap to try.

 

@Mihaylov

 

It worked! I left the BG7BTL on with the supplied SMPS overnight then removed the SMPS and connected the LPS 1.2 and the BG7BTL turned on. Left it on for a week so to be certain no stabilization issues were affecting the sound.

 

Then I tried:

a) LPS 1.2 feeding BG7BTL thru Ghent DC-GAC4 and ET07 BNC 75 ohm into eR, and eR fed by Uptone SMPS, vs.

b) LPS-1.2 feeding eR thru DC-GAC4.

 

I'm preferring b). More details, definition, across the frequency range. With the BG7BTL it is mellower which isn't bad with some recordings, but I think I loose definition. And cleaner rack.

My system is in flux, especially my DIY speakers, so I'm thinking the edginess might be more about the current speaker prototype. The AMT tweeters are quite revealing and so are the mids. 

 

FWIW my BG7BTL only has square signals...I purchased it right before John's paper was out...oh well.

 

As MartinT said, at the cost of this clock it was an experiment worth doing. Just didn't pan out for me :)

[LewinskiH01]

32 minutes ago, PYP said:

My setup is ABAB with the second (last) eR using an external clock.  Two separate LPSs, as you have it, is an optimal setup.    I'm really enjoying the result.  

 

Since my clock only has one output, I couldn't experiment with adding a clock signal to the first eR, but since you do have a second output, it is worth trying.  In my setup, the clock cable makes a significant difference and took a month to settle in.  Also, my clock took a month to stabilize.  If your setup reacts in a similar way, a quick change may not give you the answer you want.  

 

Interesting. Do you think the 1-month stabilization had to do with breaking in or with temperature? I might have reacted too soon.

 

I have two eR ab-ab, 1st one with the supplied SMPS, the 2nd with LPS-1.2 both fed from a balanced power conditioner.

 

I tried the BG7BTL with stock SMPS: left it on for 3 days, then connected it to the 2nd eR and listened. Couldn't perceive any difference so I removed the BG7BTL. Maybe I didn't let it break in enough? 

 

FWIW my BG7BTL has only square wave outputs, purchased right before John made his paper public, so I kind of figured what I was (not) hearing was in line with his paper.

[LewinskiH01]

23 hours ago, Oggo said:

I have just compared my BG7TBL (with 3 square wave 75 ohm outputs) feeding 2 ERs (2 clock cables from 2 outputs) to feeding just the last of the 2 ERs (1 clock cable):

 

The second option gave better results. Sound had more depth and body. Highs were cleaner. Bass had more texture.

 

Interesting. I also have two eRs and that same BG7BTL and had different results. What PSUs are you using for the eRs and BG7BTL? Which digital cable do you use? No mini-circuits filter, right?

[LewinskiH01]

4 hours ago, Oggo said:

Zerozone r-core LPS on BG7BTL (with Blue Jean cables), 2 separate Farad Super3s on the two ERs with Gotham JSSG360 DC-cables from Ghent Audio. No filters, as my BG7BTL is 75 ohm square wave only. 

Thank you.

Must be the LPS on the BG7BTL making a difference. My 2nd eR has LPS-1.2 and the same Ghent Gotham DC cable as you, my digital cable is a Ghent 75 ohm BNC, and my BG7BTL is also 75 ohm and only square waves.