AfterDark. Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Phase noise measurement and Allan Derivation can shows how good is the OCXO for audio equipment. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 For 10M clock, we agreed with Alex that, the good OCXO Clock should be at least above -130dBc at 10Hz & -107dBc at 1Hz The reference point is on -125dBc/Hz @10Hz is about what it takes for a 10Mhz clock to audibly surpass the EtherREGEN's. The OCXO performance can further tested by phase noise @ 1Hz and Allan Derivation which indicate short-term stability with respect to time (1s) For example, the above Phase Noise graph is measured by Symmetricom 5125A is showing phase noise of the OCXO clock is -140dBc@10Hz / -113dBC@1Hz. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Yes, square wave version can be made too. The above example is mid-range model. The quality of OCXO clock is always on the sine wave - original version, it is because the square wave version is re-generated by sine wave with some jitter on re-generation, so in general the very good quality OCXO can only be found on the original form as sine wave version. When measured the phase noise with Symmetricom 5125A on sine wave OCXO, it can measure directly on the output BNC. However, the phase noise cannot be direct measured by Symmetricom 5125A on square wave version, as it was re-generated by sine wave, it adds up fews unknown factors, so the phase noise measure cannot be performed directly on the output BNC. Therefore, some Audiophiles may prefers sine wave to square wave, as it can gives out more natural and laid back sounding, due to reduce Phase Noise and Allan Derivation which may caused by the conversion process from sine to square wave. The square wave is better choice when the cable exceeding 3 meters, as the power / loading on square wave is higher compare to OCXO with sine wave. In addition, using the better quality BNC clock cable will improve the sounding on most system, as the better the cable, the less reflection inside. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Hi Ambre, The square wave version can be made for Giesemann. The above graph is from the mid-range is Emperor CROWN. Square & Wave is working well with EtherREGEN, but they are different sounding We suggest to use quality OCXO which around the price range vs EtherREGEN. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Dear GMG, 1. All model is 50ohm, adaptor to 75ohm can be bundle for members. 2. This one is the linear power supply to power up the Giesemann. 3. Dual 12V DC outputs. ambre 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 The lower the phase noise (more negative), the better the OCXO Clock can performed. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 The adapter is a matching adaptor made by Cybershaft , we sold a unit of EtherREGEN to them, and they have perform testing when this adapter was plug into 75ohm EtherREGEN, it work well and no performance issue. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 The external LPS and mu metal will reduce the interference on the electronic device etc is applied to enhance the environment on electronic device so that it run in optimal status. OCXO is stand for Oven Controlled Crystal (Xtal) Oscillator, which required to work in heated temperature, Power consumption for OCXOs is of course higher during start-up/warm-up periods, once OCXO is Warm-up and Steady-state, the power consumption will decrease. So, this is always benefit to prevent heat loss and caused the OVEN start up again. Therefore, the use of heat isolation and sound isolation which seal up the air on OCXO can prevent heat loss, and it can act as shock adsorbent to reduce the impact when we playing music. So it is the ideas behind on isolation on heat / EMI noise/ vibration, to provide the optimal stage. This tweak can apply on RAM/ USB port/ Lan port which help to improve sounding on ROON Server too. richard_crl032 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 This is called SMA connector. The recommended cable is HUBER+SUHNER SMA Shielding (Made in Swiss) Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, R1200CL said: One interesting observation is that the clocks we get from Ham is sine wave that’s converted to square wave. At least that’s my understanding. So I’m asking myself why he isn’t using pure square wave clocks ? https://www.ebay.com/itm/MORION-OCXO-MV102-10MHz-squarewave-Crystal-Oscillator-12V-EFC/143856696386?hash=item217e86fc42:g:vp8AAOSwkz1eYVRS https://www.ebay.com/itm/DAPU-O55F-ASDD-10MHz-OCXO-Crystal-Oscillator-12V-EFC/143045716607?epid=28026910829&hash=item214e306a7f:g:a8YAAOSwW4hceKjd Maybe something to ask Ham about. (I just tried via eBay). Maybe data sheet will indicate that sine version is better ? The quality of clock is determinate by Phase Noise and Allan Derivation on frequency accuracy, which can measured on sine wave. We cannot measure the phase noise with square wave peak, it is just too broad. We suggested to get a better performance of sine wave OCXO clock, it is because if lousy sine to square wave convertor, it makes worse sound. It is much easier to convert sine wave to square wave by simple amplify the sine wave and limit the peaks to get the square wave. The EtherREGEN and Mutec MC3-USB can accept the sine wave because of build in convertor, so they can accept both square and sine wave without compatible or performance issue. R1200CL 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 39 minutes ago, renan said: Hi Ponkbutler, Got time to make some testing on DCS Network bridge, Etheregen and Mutec Ref10 but unfortunately not all together since the post office was retaining my Mutec while I had the ehterregen home for an aftenoon. So I have this clock https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001307541392.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=248-630-5778&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=10191220526&albag=107473525328&trgt=709881906465&crea=fr4001307541392&netw=u&device=c&albpg=709881906465&albpd=fr4001307541392&gclid=CjwKCAiAxp-ABhALEiwAXm6IyX36yrH6JfiPDW4KCWrkR07Xp9S6x_cllUR7XFUAgOK6ULVE3QMxmBoChbgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds which is quite different from the one from Martin T since it is suppose to replace a Mutec Mc3 Smart clock allowing output at 44 and 48Hzs multiple. Now I have an aqvox se and a friend bring me an etheregen for an afternoon. Results of the listening. Yes the Fos-3 clock (mine is not DAPU bue FE-180) improve the listening on etheregen. Surprisingly clocking both Etherregen and DCS Network bridge was not very good. The clock on only one apparatus is better. May be a pb of impedance adaptation between them?? 3 days after while I have no more the etheregen I receive my Mutec Ref10. So the only comparison i've done was Fe-180 clock providing 10MHz and 44KHzs vs Mutec ref10 providing 10MHzs in the aliexpress clock on my DCS Network bridge. There is a huge difference and sound improvement by adding the Ref10. No a 20 times improvement like the difference in price but let say a "3"times improvement if i have to quantify. Much more impact for low frequency that I did not feel with the FE-180 and more air than with FE-180. Well to say it the FE-180 is a very good improvmeent but the Ref10 is even better. This will not surprise a lot of people. Just one question left does my aliexpress clock is a real "same quality "replacement for the Mutec MC3 smart clock or not?? With the aliexpress clock, it actually sounded worse in Mutec MC3-USB than the plain (without the aliexpress clock). The sound is congested towards the middle with narrower width. Mid image came forward. Details become messy (using selectable square wave). If choose sine wave, it is smoother but lacked dynamic range. There is no comparison vs Mutec Ref10. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 53 minutes ago, renan said: So you think the clock in the MC3-USB is better then the DAPU ocxo clock or its implementation. Mutec MC3-USB is very sensitive to quality OCXO clock, on the other way, it require better performance/quality clock to perform well in related to the re-clock functions for 10M Optimization. When tested with classical music, it will show the differences and improvement when you use the high quality OCXO. So, it is worth to have better OCXO for Mutec MC3-USB, to match the price range to work with. We have perform varies test against most of the OCXO clock in the market, so we suggested to get the Phase Noise graph @1Hz & @10Hz (reference points) and Allan Derivation measurement when comparing high quality OCXO. It can shows the performance in written form. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
Popular Post AfterDark. Posted January 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 22, 2021 11 hours ago, GMG said: Since Mutec is now on the table, I would be grateful if someone could clarify some points and give some opinion from 1st hand experience First, did I correctly understand the function of MC3? Re-clock digital signal with native internal clock Can accept external 10Mhz clock for further enhancement of re-clocking Can distribute the connected 10Mhz clock to additional devices Can convert various digital inputs connections (USB to Coax, Coax to AES, etc.) Can also provide 44.1KHz, and 48KHz based clock signals. Second is usage: based on Etherregen-->network player-->DAC Which will provide bigger improvement: High quality 10Mhz clock to ER (Cybershaft/Afterdark, Or: Mutec to re-clock before the DAC If adding both Mutec and high quality 10M clock to chain, Etherregen-->network player-->Mutec+Clock-->DAC, will connecting the clock to Mutec and then from the Mutec back to Ethereregen defeat the Moat of side B? Many Thanks First, did I correctly understand the function of MC3? Re-clock digital signal with native internal clock? Yes Can accept external 10Mhz clock for further enhancement of re-clocking? Yes it can accept 10M Master Clock Can distribute the connected 10Mhz clock to additional devices? However, it do not have 10M Master Clock output for additional devices. Can convert various digital inputs connections (USB to Coax, Coax to AES, etc.)? Yes, it have AES, Coaxial, Optical output, so they can output at the same time. it is pro machine, it works perfectly. Can also provide 44.1KHz, and 48KHz based clock signals? Yes, if you have a very good CD transport/DAT machine, this can all benefit with the world clock from Mutec, which was generated by 10M Master Clock. Second is usage: based on Etherregen-->network player-->DAC Which will provide bigger improvement: High quality 10Mhz clock to ER (Cybershaft/Afterdark, Or: Mutec to re-clock before the DAC The Mutec MC3-USB is different machine compared with switch, it can removes all the digital feelings, which make music more organic, more laid back. The mid-range is lush & airy, bass is more authority and controlled. UpTone EtherREGEN is an excellent to bring the dynamic and details from the network, streaming like Roon, Qobuz, Tidal, Spotify can all benefit with it. The Master Clock just bring all the factors and improvement to another levels, depends on the quality of OCXO Master Clock, of course we agreed with John, the building and material used in the clock cable and BNC connectors are all matters to ensure the optimisation for 10M signal to work perfectly too. We have perform testing on different brand of BNC clock cables, they have their own sounding, the BNC plug is very important. We prefer to use the HUBER + SUHNER, this is the most natural sounding which frequency range is exceeding the requirement for 10M. If adding both Mutec and high quality 10M clock to chain, Etherregen-->network player-->Mutec+Clock-->DAC, will connecting the clock to Mutec and then from the Mutec back to Ethereregen defeat the Moat of side B? We can demonstrate this setting with YouTube, if anyone is interested. Exocer and Confused 1 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, GMG said: Thanks a lot for the detailed answer just to to make sure I understood, the Mutec can only output word clock but can’t output a master clock. It can’t distribute the input of a master 10MHz, it can only use the 10MHz to improve the distribution of the word clock? so if I have a single output from a 10MHz master clock I can use it to feed both ER and Mutec. Is that right? (I thought maybe the clock could go into Mutec and then out of the Mutec to the ER) Yes, there is a transformer type 10M distributor adaptor made by Cybershaft. This adaptor can make make 2 outputs of 10M signal. So that you can use them on EtherREGEN and Mutec MC3-USB with the same 10M Clock. PYP 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, GMG said: Thanks. interesting. but I would assume such a splitter might degrade some of the performance? Maybe increase a bit the phase distortion? or is this similar to what would be implement internally in a clock with multiple outputs ? Since it is a transformer type, it can be distributed with almost no deterioration in clock quality. The adaptor was certified with measuring the SWR for each unit and checking the characteristics. PYP 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, R1200CL said: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/57686-the-etherregen-thread-for-various-network-cable-power-experiences-and-experiments/?do=findComment&comment=1104439 I’m also using a converter (Singxer SU1). I’m hoping one of products John is developing is a ethernet to SPDIF converter. Or at least a USB to SPDIF converter. Both with external clock input. Also, if a new version of opticalRendu is coming, I would expect it would have external clock input. (Or a Rendu with SPDIF AES/EBU out). In any case I see a need for a clock with isolated outputs or several clocks. Minimum 2, possible 3 outputs. Square wave. And it may be nice if such a clock could use 7V input, so the LPS 1 can be used. So I’m waiting to see what products will come, hopefully during 2021, and then maybe upgrade my clock. AfterDark’s clocks seems to be best option. I just hope a new version can be made later this year. Hi! R1200CL, Last week, we designed and build a 3 outputs model for you. They are all isolated, 10M Master out with Square Wave @75ohm. The linear power supply will be build in for this combo outputs version. The new model with specification will be released later next week. Therefore, the 10M clock can connected to UpTone EtherREGEN, Mutec MC3-USB, or one additional device at the same time. R1200CL 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 14 hours ago, R1200CL said: I understand this is the Crown model. Is the measurement done with or without your external LPS ? How will the measurement change if an LPS 1.2 change the result ? Looking at a double Crown, I noticed the phase noise at 1Hz change most. How important is this number ? To move from 140 at 10Hz to 145 at top model seems quite expensive. But moving from 113 to 117 in double crown at 1Hz doesn’t drive the price to much, so this is why I’m interested in understanding the importance of these numbers. Top model maxes out at 121. Hello! R1200CL, The measurement is made without the external LPS. It was done with Symmetricom 5125A for plotting on Phase Noise and Allan Derivation. So, powered with UpTone LPS1.2 or JS-2, it will perform even better. The phase noise at 1Hz and 10Hz is reference point to show the trend or slope of the plot. This two number can distinguish how goods is the OCXO can perform on Audio. The trend of plot between 1Hz and 10Hz is also important to distinguish the quality of the OCXO too. The top quality OCXO for example, will have very low value of -121dBC@1Hz and -142dBC@10Hz. We found that at 1Hz, to achieve phase noise -121dBC, is much harder to achieve. So, this is one of the most important point. Another measurement for excellent OCXO is the value of Allan Derivation. The Allan Derivation is intended to estimate short term stability due to noise processes and not that of systematic errors or imperfections such as frequency drift or temperature effects. The Allan Deviation describe frequency stability. It takes measurement of 1s as reference point as below: For example, the lower the Allan Deviation at 1s =2.38xE-13, the better the OCXO can perform for Audio application. richard_crl032 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
Popular Post AfterDark. Posted January 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 hours ago, R1200CL said: Can I hope for a phase noise measurement with LPS 1.2 and your own PS on this new Crown or double Drown version later ? (No need for Allan Deviation). Since the new clock is square wave, how do you access the sine wave, and at the same time have the clock operating as it will under normal conditions ? (I assuming just measure clock without the chassis and various isolation will make the clock not perform optimal). Is the double Crown an option for the new clock, or is those 4 extra dBc at 1Hz not worth the cost and effort ? https://blog.bliley.com/the-double-oven-controlled-crystal-oscillator-when-to-use-it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_variance Hi! R1200CL, We do not plan to measure the phase noise for each power supply. However, we prefers UpTone JS-2 for power supply, especially, they have two outputs, one 12V goes to the clock and one 12V goes to UpTone EtherREGEN. It is best for the both world as well. UpTone JS-2 is worth so much more than the its price. The picture below is the UpTone JS-2 and Cybershaft OP21a special edition for Japan market: The above phase noise graph is powered with UpTone JS-2, the performance is really good. It actually lower the phase noise a bit on 10Hz compared to stock power. So, the clock is deserved to have better power supply. Exocer, PYP, ambre and 2 others 1 2 2 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
Popular Post AfterDark. Posted January 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2021 10 hours ago, soares said: Don’t really want to comment on this, but I am really curious. I asked perhaps one year ago if a clock was being considered and John explained the multiple challenges around it. While back at that time I stayed convinced the odds were against it, I think that the conditions might be there for another successful product: on one hand the extraordinary benefits that come from the eR are more than demonstrated; on a second hand there is also a growing awareness that the eR can still be improved by adding an external clock. Time will tell... 🤗 We have one customer feedback, he is the owner and the finest audio engineer to help recording music since 1960s, stationed in Hong Kong. He was using the full set of Merging HORUS/ , Studer and 10 Master Clock for recording live and playback of recording. Mr. Raymond is one of the very first audiophile customer to make purchase of UpTone EtherREGEN, UpTone JS-2 x 2 units, he just cannot live without the 10M Master Clock for music playback, the improvement is huge. He was using UpTone JS-2 /10M to power up the ifi DSD x 2 units. The other UpTone JS-2 is for power up OP21a. The shows that the power supply / 10M are so important when we connect those sensitive equipment for audiophile. soares and ambre 2 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 hour ago, R1200CL said: @AfterDark. Do you like us to create a new tread discussing your clocks ? Especially the new version developed and a possible group buy. That is good idea. I am willing to paid for the subscription fees for audiophilestyle.com R1200CL 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Superdad said: Hi Adrian: You do not have to pay any subscription fees in order to create a new topic on Audiophile Style. It is a pubic forum. However: a) You are not permitted to make promotional posts about your products--unless you pay $3K/year to establish an entire Sponsored Forum area. Such would be at equal level to this UpTone Audio sponsored forum area. b) If you do wish to make a modest post--or reply with answers to questions in a new thread about AfterDark clocks that someone else might start--you can do so. But I request that such a topic start in a forum other than the UpTone sponsored area. That way there is no appearance of conflict or about my allowing or not allowing you to promote--and I do not have to be moderator. Audiophile Style site owner @The Computer Audiophile would the be the only moderator of what you can post in such a thread. Thank you for understanding. --Alex C. Hi! Alex, Thanks for your information. We are establishing a Sponsored Forum with Chris now. ambre 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, PYP said: The manual for the Cybershaft recommends: Best: 75 ohm output > 75 ohm cable > 75 ohm input (audio equipment) And the same works for 50 ohm across the chain Second best: 50 ohm output > 75 ohm cable > 75 ohm input (audio equipment) OR 50 ohm output > 50 ohm cable > 75 ohm input (audio equipment) But avoid: 75 ohm output > 50 ohm cable > 50 ohm input (audio equipment) Hello! PYP, For matching the impedances for 50ohm to 75ohm, we recommend to use Cybershaft 50ohm matching device for this. This is certified to work with EtherREGEN 75ohm edition. Best Regards, Adrian AfterDark. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 55 minutes ago, R1200CL said: Do you know the phase noise numbers from Denafrips ? Reason i out ruled Denafrips DDC, was lack of external input clock. SU-2 is what I’m planning for. But maybe you own a Denafrips Terminator DAC already, if not it doesn’t make any sense I would say. The clock inputs of those DCC is not 10 MHz. The Denafrips GAIA is sync with the special rate at 49.152MHz and 45.1548MHz non-standard signal designed to operated only for their Denafrips Terminator Plus, this requires two clock cable to works with. So, the Denafrips GAIA cannot output 10M Master Clock. So, it is designed for their Denafrips products and not compatible with product with 10M Master Input. The phase noise and Allan Derivation for GAIA was not disclosed, so cannot indicate how good is the OCXO perform inside. When we compare with other excellent product - The Merging Clock will disclose the specification on OCXO, the output format, Phase Noise, Allan Derivations (Short Term Stability). For the output format of Merging Clock is in 50ohm Sine Wave at 7dBm. Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 4 hours ago, soares said: Very timely and appreciated some of the questions you have shared by many of us including me. Just a point of clarification on the AfterDark clock. From what I understand following a reply from Adrian he can make a customized version of every clock with a 75ohm output. Hi! Soares, We are making this happen, we are planning to release a new option on 75ohm only for Emperor Double Crown version at the moment. Thanks for your interested. Best Regards, Adrian AfterDark. soares 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
AfterDark. Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 3/11/2021 at 10:59 PM, LowMidHigh said: As PYP alluded, you're better off with LP-1.2 x 2 (if the LP-1.2 has the oomph to power the AfterDark). Hi! LowMidHigh, LPS1.2 is sufficient to power the Giesemann. Normal operating use around 0.5A only, max for power up around 0.8-1.0A. Best Regards, Adrian AfterDark. ambre 1 Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator DAC: CH Precision C1.1 Digital Convertor, Studer D19 DAC, Wadia 2000 DAC Digital: Mutec MC3-USB, AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Studer A807 VU MKII Open Reel Network Switch: AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX BUFFALO BS-GS2016 CASCADE X GIESEMANN OCXO BLACK MODERNIZE EDITION x Farad Super3 LPS Dealer: UpTone Audio, Gustard, Farad Power Supply, Cybershaft, Thixar, DELA Link to comment
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