Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[Rasputin]

12 hours ago, MartinT said:

As previously posted, I am using the BG7TBL DAPU OCXO clock for both the ER and Mutec MC-3+ USB. After many trials, I can confirm that it enhances the performance of both. It is a better clock than the internal Mutec one to my ears.

 

I am using Canare LV-77S cables, very short 30cm ones, 75 ohm matched throughout. High quality linear PSU, soon to be further improved by swapping to a Coherent supercap PSU being built for me.

I need to say a lot of thanks to MartinT, I did exactly as he did and now the music is amazingly live....something I was looking for. For a couple of hundred bucks such an improvement. Thank you Martin.  I run Emm Labs NS1 streamer and DV2 Dac and this China 200 backs hardware:))) amazing !

[Rasputin]

Hello everybody, i jumped on the BG7TBL train and got one home. When I open the case I see the following, which is different from Martin's DAPU. Can anyone tell me if the ocxo any good?

 

 

[Rasputin]

Hi guys, I just wanted to share my experience with bg7tbl and etheregen.  I have one studer900 China psu and another China linear psu with no name. Also I used stock dc cables. I borrowed Acrolink bnc cable retail over 1000 usd and I have made canare Lv 77 like Martin with furutech connectors.

 

When using stock dc cables and best psu (studer900) with expensive PC on the clock and no name PSU with PC kimber cable pk14 on etheregen  connecting with Acrolink n7 5100 Mexel bnc cable, I got a good increase in SQ over using just etheregen. 
 

Then I have made a very good Dc cable and connected best psu and best PC to etheregen and tried that alone. The SQ got to the level of the combo above.
 

Then I introduced bg7 clock with stock dc cable no name psu and Canare bnc over square waive output. The SQ degraded quite a bit loosing life in the music. Changing the bnc cable for Acrolink did increase the SQ, but it was not better then ER alone.

 

so it seems for BG7 to increase SQ of a well “served” by quality PSU and DC cable ER, one need to invest quite a sum of money. I will be getting top of the line 2 farad PSUs and I will test again.

 

however that made me thinking, that clock plus quality psu plus expensive bnc (cheap one does not help) plus reasonable quality PC plus an extra audiophile wall socket easily run into 2000 usd extra money and creates mess in the rack with all these boxes.  
 

so to get that level of sound from an audiophile switch for 2000+670 USD (etheregen) and a lot of trying and testing, I think there are just one box good solutions for that money. Eg. Vaversa.

 

I’m a little disappointed with ER, as I was let to believe by marketing that the product was top sounding and a good bargain. Now it is a good product with a sound equal to its price, nothing more and nothing less. I guess silly me for believing :)))

 

it seems I will be happy with just etheregen alone in the end;) until I get my audiophile itch and buy something outrageously expensive;) that I have heard. 

[Rasputin]

10 hours ago, Clockmeister said:

Hello PYP

 

I also have a Cybershaft 21A (with a significantly improved power supply and internal upgradess I use in one of the smaller demo systems), I have found that cable selections with the vast majority of these clocks can deliver quite surprising results from both very  beneficial to piss poor.

 

For some time I used a genuine RF reference cable (18Ghz BW) using T-Flex 405 very good indeed besting many multi $K audiophile cables.Cost is around $200 dollars for 3 feet un-termiated . Happily use them in my lab for sub 6G work. For audio now I use a different cable, it doesn't quite match that cable for insertion loss or overshot, however it sounds superior without question. The downside is cost. However for you guys try something similar you maybe surprised.

 

My other issue is I require 68 clock cables for the studio/lab and music systems so I have tried one or two different cables over the years

 

 

I have found a huge difference among the bnc cables when used between DCS Rossini DAC and DCS clock, so the notion of a cable “cease  to matter” with a use of a filter goes against my  hearing experience, however I will try as advised in the John’s paper. But would you share which cable you have found to sound best for your studio? 

[Rasputin]

3 hours ago, DarqueKnight said:

I placed an order by phone for the Mini-Circuits BLP-10.7+ 50 Ohm and BLP-10.7-75+ 75 Ohm filters.

 

 

 

I’m very interested in your experience with the filters when you get them, hope you will share.

[Rasputin]

5 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Now is a good time to write about what I found in the BG7TBL box that Alex sent me.

 

First off what is inside:

 

OCXO produces sine wave, this goes into a standard CMOS logic gate, which makes an attempt at converting the sine to square. This signal then feeds three more CMOS gates, one for each output. Outputs with sine have a multi-pole passive filter to get rid of most of the harmonics from the square waves. Square wave outputs just feed the CMOS gate output directly to the BNC jack.

 

An important thing to note is that standard CMOS outputs (such as these) cannot even come close to supplying enough current to feed a properly terminated  50 or 75 ohm input. The output impedance is also usually in the range of 10 to 20 ohms, which is not going to match anything.

 

So neither the sine nor square are actually close to outputting what they should, no matter what cable you use. If you get a good looking square wave out of one it is pure luck.

 

Look at the pictures of the square wave in a previous post, on the falling edge you can actually see a glitch where the falling actually goes back up, then back down. This is caused by an impedance mismatch on the board itself.

 

The 50 or 75 ohm output don't actually change the impedance coming out of the board, just the connector.

 

Given all this it is a wonder some people find this to improve things.  Given all the impedance mismatches the length of the cable is going to play an important part with square waves.

 

Getting a decent sound improvement out of this box is more a matter of luck than technical "goodness"  of any cables or connectors.

 

John S.

 

 

Thank you John,

Your conclusion correlates greatly with my results. With a very expensive bnc cable I was able to improve sq using the square output. With canare and other cheaper cables, ER sounded best without BG7TBL

[Rasputin]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:06 PM, MartinT said:

Look what I've received...

 

Hi Martin, where have you purcahsed this one? seems non-catalog item at minicircuits

[Rasputin]

Dear audio frends:)

 

I need some help buying the minicircuits 75ohm filter. The minicircuits.com did not answer my mail, Afterdark after I placed and paid an order, cancelled it due to (suspended EMS service to Russia - I will investigate if that is correct), so it seems close to impossible to buy it from here. 

 

Any help of getting it and sending to Russia would be greatly appreciated. I know, this is a strage request, but NOW that so many people report not subtle impovements, how can I live without such a filter? Life is not the same any more 🤩

 

any help as where to buy or buying and shipping to Moscow (I know very aggressive and strage country))) but we love Stravinsky:) would be appreciated. Obviously the payment is not a problem, I can paypal the money any time. 

[Rasputin]

59 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Did you notice Aliexpress link in post above yours ?

Alternatively, why not purchase the 50 ohm version?

Tak, skal du have:)))  I did. I just do not trust Ali to buy American branded goods.  I have been through experiences of getting a fake. 

50 is a question, everyone reported increases had 75, my clock and etheregen 75, so in order to be on the safe side I wanted 75. Now if the 50 is really the same (can someone confirm from the experience and not theory?) that could be a solution.

[Rasputin]

Yeps, the UK office of Mini-Circuits came through with a quote. However, yes they want to make sure I order the correct one 75 or 50. As mentioned above they are now dealing a lot with returns:)))))) our great forum makes them work hard:)

@ Superdad, this would be an excellent idea, people could order one on your site together with etheregen. Everyone I demoed my etheregen to has bought one:)

[Rasputin]

So I got the minicircits filter today 75 ohm. Tried it on etheregen, then on the chiana clock using sine wave. THe BNC is from ghentaudio Belden.  Well, it sucked the life out of the sound.  it got sterile and dead.  Connected the BNC from the square wave to etheregen, better than with the filter, but without the china clock etheregen sounds best.  The best result with the china clock I had - square wave into etheregen with an acrolinc very expensive bnc cable.  That combinatin was quite better than eitheregen alone. 

 

This is my experiment:) and I'm not going the afterdark road..

[Rasputin]

1 hour ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

yes, I've read the paper and followed the comments about minicircuits. Unfortunately some weeks before John published the paper I had purchased the BG7BTL with square waves only . My recollection is DarqueKnight measured the BG7BTL square waves with different 75ohm cables and one that came with a unit (a DCS?) measured well despite being cheap. Some have reported good results with BG7BTL square waves, so I'm checking in Ghent makes suitable cables as I will be ordering a couple other cables from them.

Ghent’s bnc cable is 15 usd, not a lot to waste in case you don’t like it. I use it on square wave from BG7BTL and it is not bad. The most important is the PSU to BG7BTL. In my experience cheaper China PSUs + BG7BTL did not benefit ER. ER alone sounded better. But when I connected Farad PSU top specs to BG7BTL it improved the sound of ER, using square wave. I have yet to try the sine wave with MC filter, I have one now

[Rasputin]

It was Acrolink 7N-DA6100 MEXCEL, somehow the sound was cleaned but not sterilized, you could hear a hall or stage or the church with organ for example (not only an organ without surroundings) , it gave warm natural timbers and dynamics, basically a whole lot more “Live” sound. I may suspect a bit of nice coloration the kind that brings the emotions forward. The later experiments showed real dependance of the china clock on the power source and its cables. Before I had china PSUs, studer900 and another one. Now I have two Farad PSUs, one top specs (furutech inlet, Sinergistic research orange fuse and silver DC cable) and the other basic psu just with upgraded copper DC cable. First connection of the basic to the clock and the top speced one to ER was ok sound but nothing really waw, but when I switched DC cables around, well that is when I really got coherent, very involving and to my ears natural sound. Sposa, Non Mi Conosci by Merope Giacomelli has just brought tears to my eyes… and that with Ghent audio belden 15 USD cable using square wave between BGT (whatever the strange name of this china clock) and ER.  As I said later, I have a MC filter 75ohm and need to experiment with sine wave as advised by Superdad. Unfortunately I do not have the Acrolink any longer to see its effect with good PSUs that I have now.

[Rasputin]

On 10/7/2021 at 7:10 PM, Mihaylov said:

All network devices before the ER moat must not share electrical ground with the network devices after the ER moat otherwise the moat will be destroyed with all the resulting consequences for sound. The clock outputs share a common electric ground, so simultaneously connecting one output of the clock to the Sotm and the second to the ER connects the electric grounds of the Sotm and ER ("clean" side, because the clock plugs to the ER on the "clean" side after the moat).

Does this mean the power supply circuits should be different before and after ER moat? Or the network devices can be powered from the same power distributor sharing the ground? 

[Rasputin]

Thanks, clear now;) I might try to float the ground for regen and the streamer that is connected to the dac optically and let the rest of the system be grounded, would it be theoretically better? 

[Rasputin]

1 hour ago, Encore said:

I think it was either a 2.something or a 3.something. It had a 6X5, a 5687, an EAA91 and one more tube I think. The latter two were for the tube clock AFAIK. I think it cost around 2k Euro. I had it on loan for three weeks, and I can say that it punched WAY above its weight.

 

My friend has now bought Abbas' top model, and he calls it the world's best DAC. He offered me to have it on loan for a week while he was traveling, but unfortunately (or fortunately? 😆), I was going to be away myself, so it didn't fit my plans.

Hi Jens,

Godt Nyt Aar...

 

It is a bit funny, with the best world's DAC.... here in Russia, it is considered a DAC for people who wants reasonable sound but who has no money. I have NEVER heard that anyone even tried to call his DACs "best in the world" but I guess there is something rotten in the Kingdom of Denmark))))) It was a joke :))) Have det godt!)))

Sorry Uptone, for the offtop. 

[Rasputin]

There is a lot to read and honestly I'm not so interested. I do not like reading and making openion. When A/B things in a familiar  hi end system, then I create my own openion. Unfortunatelly I don't know anyone here in Moscow who has his clock, so I could have a listen. Somehow etheregen is not so widespread here... Maybe it is better to send to Jens an Afterdark, and he could make an A/B. I just gom my queen and double crown, but had no chance to compare them to my China clock.  Will do that after 12th of Jan.