Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

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I joined the party a bit late and received my unit earlier today. The first thing I did was open it to check if I received the OCXO I had asked for (the DAPU O55A-HSDD) and it is definitely not, but it is the same clock Roberto received as pictured here. I am noticing a slight improvement in imaging. It is powered by an LPSU 1.2.

 

It is the adjust version with all square wave 75ohm outputs. I'm using it with Ghent Audio's BNC cable which uses Canare 75ohm connectors but with Belden 1694A:

 

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/e07.html

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I've had a bit more time with the BG7TBL... and i'm really liking it.

There is improved low level detail and "calmness" without a loss of dynamics capability. There is more joy and less fatigue over longer sessions. I will leave it in my chain for several weeks and remove it to see if the differences will be more noticeable. So far this was a really good purchase good find @MartinT.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

The Belden 1694A seems to be a very good choice. Blue jeans prefer it. I notice it also have dual shielding, but done differently than Canare LV 77S.

@MartinT Would be interesting if you could test the Belden version 😀

 

I’ve emailed Ghent about if a JSSG360 version is doable.

 

This would require dual shield with isolation between as I don’t think cable shield should be part of JSSG360 in a coax. 

 

I snagged the Belden cable before all of the Canare talk. I think it sounds great but who am I to judge... as I've taken closer inspection of my clock, it appears it did not come with the 75OHM connectors I requested... So even with an impedance mis-match I like what this clock is doing with the Belden cable, LPS 1.2 for power and only clocking the Etherregen.

 

Have reached out to the seller to confirm next steps but this is annoying . I only noticed it because someone PMed me to ask which one to get... and my connectors definitely appear to be 50OHMs based on the looks of it.

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17 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 Ghent shows 75 ohm. 
 

 

 

Did you said you’re powering the clock with LPS 1.2 ?

My cables are 75ohm. The clock itself is 50ohm. Check my photo above.

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1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Did you said you’re powering the clock with LPS 1.2

Yes, I am.

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2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

It’s only $15. 
Anyway not important. Thanks for replying. 

 

I have ordered this one as well : http://shop.geistnote.com/gnEAMLWC.asp#gsc.tab=0

 

Will report back any improvements/differences if I notice any.

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11 minutes ago, PYP said:

 

Very interested in first impressions and also after about a week or so of settling in.  I'm currently using this cable.

I purchased it because I saw you enjoyed it 😁.

 

Can anyone tell me if this is 75 or 50 ohm?

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, lwr said:

75ohm

 

2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Out1 and 2 are 75 ohm. If the 10MHz looks the same then you are good to go if you use a 75 ohm cable with a 75 ohm plug.

Thank you both! Yes the 10Mhz looks identical.

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2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I will get the FE180 clock. Not the DAPO. Hope is as good as DAPO. 

 

I do think per data sheet as confirmed by @Superdad, the FE-180 had the same phase noise spec as the DAPU. As far as other worthwhile specs go, I do not know where the two stand in comparison to eachother.

 

1 hour ago, MartinT said:

The Belden 1694A is not that good as an S/PDIF cable so I wouldn't think it the best for clock use

I wish I saw this comment before going that route. Will be replacing it soon with the Geisnote cable so it'll be interesting to compare.

 

For those that are US based, here is a cable to try: 1 Foot - 12G Rated RG6 Belden 4694R 18AWG 4K UHD SDI BNC Cable by Custom Cable Connection #113649-1C

 

Cheers

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This just arrived. Test and provide feedback today. The first noticable difference is the flexibility. Much more flexible than the Ghent cable.

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9 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Ghent says he can supply it at $60 with JSSG360. 
Which may be a bit pricey, since it can be bought without extra shielding at £17 plus freight.
 

He won’t list it unless it’s a demand, so people will have to email him.

 

I’m not sure how much extra shielding will do on a coax, but it can’t do any harm. 
 

Looking forward to your findings with that cable @Exocer

 

 

The Geistnote takes the sound in a positive direction. It is more of a "feeling" than a describable trait at this point. Expect some more detailed impressions in several days! At this point I will say that both the Ghent and Geistnote sound good, with the Geistnote sounding a bit more refined. 

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2 hours ago, MartinT said:

Actually, looking at the spec sheet, dropout voltage of 340mV means that 12.5V input would suffice to keep it operating.

Interesting -

So I'm actually not doing anything at all if I'm feeding the clock 12V. Was this all placebo? 😀 Interested in the results of your experiment. I do not have a PSU with more voltage to feed it so...I will await the results of your test 

 

Interesting that the input voltage is labeled down to 11.7v and the included wallwart is delivering 12v at .5a.

 

Edit: I mis-read the original comment by @FIndingit. It is the regulator that may not be doing anything but adding noise when being fed 12v. The clock itself is still adequately powered to function. So I am no longer questioning whether this is placebo. The benefits are real..My only option would be to bypass the regulator.

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Well my wife helped me do a blind test switching cables.

 

We played the same song 4 times. Nils Lofgren Band Live - Two by Two

 

I was blindfolded and only allowed to press the play button and rotate towards listening position.

My wife would walk behind me before every play.

 

She would make similar sounds between "supposed" cables switches so I had no idea what cable was in or if it was switched.

 

The cable rotation was as follows:

 

1. Ghent

2. Ghent

3. Geistnote

4. Ghent

 

By the time I got to play #4 I had honestly forgotten what play 1 sounded like but I remembered 2, 3 and 4. So the first play was a throw away.

 

We both agreed the Geistnote sounded good but sort of "muted" in comparison to the Ghent, as if not as much information was presented. I was shocked at the results.

 

This test is NOT over. I am comparing a relatively broken in cable to a brand new one. The Ghent is also longer by 6", which should technically work against it.

 

So I will try this test again in several weeks with more songs after breaking in the Geistnote some more.

 

Just a fun experiment for a Sunday.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Wow, your wife is good sport--a keeper for sure! 

 

Sure is! Definitely lucked out 

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17 minutes ago, FileMakerDev said:

 

That's how I'm feeling (this week, at any rate) as well.

Awesome.

 

Did yours come with the FE-180 clock or DAPU?

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2 hours ago, Superdad said:

But unless someone is putting those clocks on a proper phase-noise analysis station we really don't know for sure if those surplus DAPUs or FE-180s (pulled from cell-tower boards) are meeting their specs, sample-to-sample.

 

Speaking of tests...has yours arrived yet? Still planning to test it? 

 

It would be interesting to see measurements of at least one of these clocks.

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@R1200CL , I can tell you that the LPS 1.2 and this clock are a winning combo.

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1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

@Exocer I don’t think dual LPS-1 or one LPS 1-2 really matter either used for the etherRegen or the clock. (And my old SMPS from Uptone has the JSGT implemented). Just ordered 30 cm cable. 

Good data point to have. Thank you.

 

What are your early impressions of the clock? 😀

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On 9/25/2020 at 10:03 AM, R1200CL said:

@Exocer I don’t think dual LPS-1 or one LPS 1-2 really matter either used for the etherRegen or the clock. (And my old SMPS from Uptone has the JSGT implemented). Just ordered 30 cm cable. 

For the sake of my understanding, are you saying that the use of LPS 1 or LPS 1.2 for the clock or ER vs an SMPS would not make for an audible difference? Or were you comparing the LPS 1 to LPS 1.2 when power the ER or Clock?

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1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

As you probably know both Uptone ultra caps powers is supplied with SMPS. 
So I’m not saying that at all 😀
 

Yes. So I’m saying there shouldn’t be any difference those two power supplies when it come to be used in that application. Especially the clock. But I won’t test this. One reason is the clock shouldn’t ever be switched off once powered up. (JohnS made a comment on that recently).

 

I had two LPS 1.2 not in use. As well as the necessary serial cable to obtain 12V. So I could put them back in service. 
 

I think purchasing a Paul Hynes SR4T or a Uptone LPS 1.2 (plus maybe a Ghent DC cable) just for a $92 clock is an overkill.
(Unless that clock really is so fantastic. And we know the difference already).  

 

Thanks for clearing that up. You said neither mattered so I just wanted to be sure you meant what I thought you meant. You have confirmed this ;). The LPS 1.2 has made quite a positive impact on the performance of my system through my experimentation with it.

 

As for the clock, I totally agree there may not be much of a difference between the LPS 1 and LPS 1.2 due to low current requirements and how clean both of these LPSUs are. Powering the ER, I haven't tested the LPS 1.2 vs LPS 1. I will say that I prefer the stock SMPS in my system on the ER vs the LPS 1.2. I do not know if this is because I use an SFP module or not (which would theoretically require some additional current). But the preference for me is the stock SMPS with the ER.

 

So yes, my repurposed LPS 1.2 ended up powering this clock as well, although this was not the original plan.

 

Keep in mind, the core OCXO (Either DAPU or FE-180) of this $92 clock provides performance one would have to pay much more to achieve if purchasing new, per some of @Superdad's earlier posts on the topic. Let's see if the measurements stack up. 

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6 hours ago, Superdad said:

Just to be clear: The original UltraCap LPS-1 can not be used to power either an EtherREGEN or a BG7TBL clock. The current generation UltraCap LPS1.2 can be used with either.

This is because while both UltraCap models are capable of delivering up to 1.1A at any of their output voltage settings, the highest output voltage setting for the original LPS-1 was 7V. And:

a) The BG7TBL clock requires 12V;

b) An EtherREGEN run from 7V draws about 1.35A—a bit over the limit for out UltraCap units (whereas at 12V the EtherREGEN draws just 0.8A).

 

[And yes I saw that @R1200CL said he his is using a pair or original LPS-1 units in series (one set to 5V, the other to 7V) to obtain 12V.  But that seems to be getting lost in the shuffle of these posts today.]
 

 — Alex C.

 

Acknowledged. Thanks for clearing up the confusion. Happy listening all. 😎

 

 

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On 9/26/2020 at 10:50 AM, R1200CL said:

As you probably know both Uptone ultra caps powers is supplied with SMPS. 
So I’m not saying that at all 😀
 

Yes. So I’m saying there shouldn’t be any difference those two power supplies when it come to be used in that application. Especially the clock. But I won’t test this. One reason is the clock shouldn’t ever be switched off once powered up. (JohnS made a comment on that recently).

 

I had two LPS 1.2 not in use. As well as the necessary serial cable to obtain 12V. So I could put them back in service. 
 

I think purchasing a Paul Hynes SR4T or a Uptone LPS 1.2 (plus maybe a Ghent DC cable) just for a $92 clock is an overkill.
(Unless that clock really is so fantastic. And we know the difference already).  

The DAPU is back!

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1 hour ago, jean-michel6 said:

A big thank’s to @MartinTfor bringing this master clock for the etherregen.

 

I order mine 2 weeks ago and it arrived yesterday, I also received the canare LV77s digital cable .

It has inside the FE-180 clock :-)

 

I did try it this afternoon on my system and I am really happy with the nice sound quality improvement that it does bring : better image , tighter bass , and more natural voices .

 

I have some questions :

- is it necessary to power all the time the master clock ? When you power it , how long to have it stable ?

- Clock cable is obviously critical to get the most out this nice cheap master clock , for those of you who have tried more expensive clock cable than the canare , how do you will rate the sound quality improvement brought by a better clock cable ? 
Thank’s 

Keep the clock powered on if you can.

 

To stabilize, I think the general number was a day or so, since these clocks are generally already used quite a bit. Maybe less.

 

I got the Geistnote Melody cable and it required some break in, and was initially outshined by the Ghent bnc cable. The tables have turned and the Geistnote is now noticably better.

 

Cheers

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4 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Did you buy this one https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/e07.html without extra shielding?

 

Or the Belden 4694R he also could make (not listed) ?

The one you linked to, without shielding. I did not know he could make 4694R w/ shielding at the time.

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On 1/21/2021 at 9:16 PM, sky176 said:

DUPA is used up. They provide me with Symmetricom 159-00057-000. The seller told me that he could change it from sine wave to square wave. Anyone brother know about it? 

I'm unable to locate specs for this device. Interesting how the clocks keep switching :)