Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[richard_crl032]

On 5/28/2021 at 12:23 AM, PYP said:

Thanks, @sgr  - interesting and helpful information.  I have been wondering about adding a Bg7tbl to my second eR.  Are your clocks sine wave or square wave?  If sine, could you (or anyone else) provide a current link for the Bg7tbl?  

 

Hi, can someone kindly help ? Tks !

 

If sine, could you (or anyone else) provide a current link for the Bg7tbl?  

 

 

[richard_crl032]

On 5/28/2021 at 12:23 AM, PYP said:

Thanks, @sgr  - interesting and helpful information.  I have been wondering about adding a Bg7tbl to my second eR.  Are your clocks sine wave or square wave?  If sine, could you (or anyone else) provide a current link for the Bg7tbl?  

 

Hi PYP,

 

Found this:

 

 Cheers.

 

Richard

 

[richard_crl032]

SG$ 119.80  5%OFF | made by Bg7tbl PLL-GPSDO GPS tame DISCiPLINED clock GPS Receiver 10M Sine Wave / 1PPS SQUARE WAVE GPSDO
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq9yvG9

 

Hi,

 

Is this any good ?

 

Means both sine and square wave outputs are available to try out ?

 

What is the gps with antenna about ?

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

[richard_crl032]

Hi John,

 

Thanks a million for the detailed and clear sharing !!

 

Understand completely that the unit is not suitable for our audio application but indeed very nice to learn about GPSDO and what it does in getting cheap near atomic clock accurracy.

 

Thanks again and as usual, I enjoy your teaching.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

5 hours ago, alsterfan said:

If someone is interested in a cheap alternative to the Chinese clock MartinT has started this thread with, here is what I use with great satisfaction:

Constant Temperatur Crystal OCXO 10Mhz 0.01PPM 2 Channel Output.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/184296816517

For me it has the advantage to only need 5v. So if there isn´t a LPSU 5v at hand, this clock can be powered with an USB output. At the moment I am using a power bank for that purpose after those flimsy cords (to be seen on 1 picture) have been replaced by a 2.5mm connector. Moreover there is no need to worry about BNC-cables. My external clock is attached to the ER with rigid BNC adaptors that I bought here:

https://www.amazon.de/YILIANDUO-Connector-Handfunkelektronik-Kamerascanner-Funkgeräte/dp/B07K1XHQQ9/ref=pb_allspark_dp_session_sims_pao_desktop_4/257-6201746-3777357?pd_rd_w=4KKjI&pf_rd_p=d0ecb613-4040-45f8-b335-5cd8ff54c281&pf_rd_r=67FX574W6WVKDWQMF3ZC&pd_rd_r=4f9712a8-6ae9-4e74-a428-29037f62fe41&pd_rd_wg=We0wC&pd_rd_i=B07K1XHQQ9&psc=1

Regards,

Uwe

 

 

Hi Uwe,

 

Any ideal if sine or square wave ?

 

Just spent last 6 hrs reading from initial post by Martin and I may have missed it ....

 

For me, I will not* likely be spending 3x "mid range double crown model" or more on clock from AD as compared to EtherRegen ... some improvement suffice for me as critical listening is via ssd in my antipodes cx server to ex player.

 

TIA and cheers.

 

Richard

 

*PS: unless superdad advises to my PM that I need another etherRegen between the Antipodes but will be a nightmare with all these boxes of reclocker, external clock, psu etc.

 

 

[richard_crl032]

Hi AD c/o Adrian,

 

What am I missing here ?

 

Cheaper to order from US dealer than directly from AD ? 

 

Shipping from AD HK cos much more than shipping within USA ? Or due to added "free" BNC cable especially with mentioned 10% audiophilestyle discount ?

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

 

[richard_crl032]

And then there is rubidium clock version with Symmetricom X72 from hamradioshop and presumably which lower audio critical phase noise ?  150+ db at 10K as other rubidium clock/oscillator ?

 

Get the filter and we are all set ?

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

[richard_crl032]

Hi Billy,

 

Best bang for the bucks varies and differs from you and me  ...

 

Safe bet will be Afterdark Queens or recommended Double Crown version but get from USA since about 20% discount there is great.

 

Go cheap will be China's and the Aliexpress way with sine wave 10M and recommended filter on the EtherRegen's clock input while noting Martin had already shared that this is of lesser SQ... sine wave alleviates concern on clock cable or having those costing more than EtherRegen or AD clock and disregards if 50ohm or 75ohm impedence mismatch.

 

Consider my remark with care as I had also only finished my 6 hrs read up of these 59 pages of great sharing.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

20 hours ago, alsterfan said:

Sorry, I have no idea. Maybe there will be an indirect answer to your question, if the filter that John Swenson mentioned and that I am waiting for, will push SQ even more.

 

Hi Alster,

 

My understanding is that filter is only for sine wave clock and of no impact if square wave ... hence my query.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

3 hours ago, mfaoro said:

Is the dealer you refer to here called Ctronic Audio Labs? If so, are the prices on the website 20% off or do you need to contact them about this?

 

If not, who is the US dealer?

Hi mfaoro,

 

Affirmative @ usd565 with already included discount and cheers.

 

Richard

 

[richard_crl032]

31 minutes ago, mfaoro said:

Are you the proprietor on Ctronic?

 

Are there similar discounts on the other models? If I wanted a higher end model?

 

Oh no ! Pls contact ctronics.

 

Cheers.

[richard_crl032]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Bad numbers. 
 

If it was 150 dBc at 10Hz, it would be very (extremely) good. 
 

It may help. Most BG7TBL is 50 ohm natively. (As is AfterDark clocks). 
 

Standardize on 50 ohm is good. Not everyone agree. EtherRegen is also available in 50 ohm.

 

You may consider 5V clocks as maybe easier to power them. Same clock can sometimes be available as both 5 and 12 V.

 

I recommend the AfterDark version you can afford instead of BG7TBL 😀

 

Hi R1200CL,

 

Sorry but I do meant dBc if this is what matters and also only speculated since rubidium clock while not having actual x72 specification.

 

In consideration of Afterdark options but hoping more educated bros here can comment on BG7TBL with Rubidium clock at usd680 which was not shared previously.

 

Not the recommended usd2k double crown version for me though as it will be too much $ for EtherRegen at usd640 in my opinion .. imagine if we have 11 versions of EtherRegen from usd640 to 3000 and you have the usd640 version 🥺

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

[richard_crl032]

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I advise purchasing a reasonable priced AfterDark clock instead of BG7TBL. Ask phase noise numbers upfront. (Don’t necessary follow his naming convention). Then get a confirmation about return policy and options. 
The option is to just test AliExpress.  But there is no guarantee what you get. 

Hi R1200CL,

 

Yes and same thinking too ... and for me, it will Queen at its price level and nothing else.

 

But asking for phase noise # do not make sense and AD need to fix it if this is the case ... each of the 11 versions of AD clocks are already with declared spec and buyers cannot and should not be subjected to draw of luck 😅

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

It’s the 1 Hz 10 Hz numbers we’re looking at. Understand ? (You had a K there, meaning a much higher number, and doesn’t help at all). 

Oops x2 and tks .. will edit this obvious typo error  😅

[richard_crl032]

10 minutes ago, richard_crl032 said:

Oops x2 and tks .. will edit this obvious typo error  😅

Oopsx3 ... cannot edit now .. with apology

[richard_crl032]

18 minutes ago, mfaoro said:

Can I assume that the reason I don’t see the Mutec Ref 10 se120 mentioned much is because of its price.

 

It seems to tick all of the boxes. Square, 75ohms, isolated outputs, very low phase noise (if I’m reading the charts right - the only knowledge I have of clocks is from this thread).

 

Or is there something I am missing?

Nice spec beyond afterdark offerings and configurable .. square, sine, 50ohm, 75ohm etc.  German quality, detailed specification and on top of their game 👍👍

 

Usd7k indeed but not sure what can be heard in MY setup 😄

 

 

 

[richard_crl032]

For completeness of mutec clock offering and specification ... se120 supposedly much better sounding  🤔

 

 

[richard_crl032]

38 minutes ago, mfaoro said:

Yes, it’s super expensive and I doubt I’ll ever have it my system -but- I was curious why it was almost ignored. 

I got weak and just installed the emperor double crown into my system after ordering it 3 days ago ☺

 

Get to use sidelined wdye eye bnc cable from cold storage and awaiting for ghent audio one as current needed 2m one is with 2.5mm oyaide that did not worked ... now running with Meanweĺl smps and mors listening thereafter 🥲

 

[richard_crl032]

Wow !

 

Finally after 5 hrs and family stopped watching Netflix for me to hear the obvious improvement brought by adding the AfterDark Emperor double crown ! 🥳🥳

 

Will skip all the usual waxing to say:

 

- the AfterDark double crown while diy looking is one component together with Uptone ER will not leave my system together

 

- music just pops ... wide and deep staging, extended highs, pronounced critical midbass for body and further PRAT factor ... fast, dynamic and yet delicate, real sounding midrange but no tube-like addition like some reported

 

Audition primarily via usual full flac broadcast internet stations of HiOnLine and Frequence 3.

 

YMMV but my system easily discern with and without this latest toy  😍🍻.

 

Goodnite and I am a happy man ... again ... in this no-end audiophile pursuit and noting that the cost of ER and this AD clock alone can almost get some decent streamers.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

Hi,

 

Chanced upon Roon Community forum and indeed the case for me:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/etherregen-with-an-afterdark-ocxo-clock-wow/161630?page=2

 

Well, great material sounds fabulous. Mediocre material remains mediocre. And poor source material now sounds even more like crap.

And if you spend all your time listening to 60’s rock, 50’s jazz, or 40’s blues; please don’t bother.

 

Good news is then that my system is "high end" enough to discern with indeed "fabulous" sound quality from already nice full flac, 320kbps or even 192kbps e.g. "The Wave - Relaxing" stations. Bad news is that favorite local internet fm radio channels at low 64kbps had not improved to beat my Bel Canto FM-1 tuner running directly to the Denafrips T+ ... they indeed sounded worse to be almost unbearable especially when switched from full flac or 320kbps stations.

 

I understand the usual audiophile saying of a "revealing" system but new to me that a single component can be "revealing" to such an extreme extent.

 

Any reason or even rectification actions ?

 

Aside to Adrian,

-------------------------

Should I try the low pass filter with my 75 ohm sine wave Emperor Double Crown that I did not received ? Perhaps poor quality sources are having more garbage in the higher frequencies ? Re-read John's white paper and cannot say if indeed low pass filter affects low quality sources only. Cheers.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

Just a quick update ... was using a meanwell smps for the double emperor while waiting for ghent's canare dc.

 

Ghent's cable arrived and another obvious SQ improvement with 12v from a dual 12v output zerozone lps which also power my mesh node. The ER continues to be powered by its stock smps.

 

 

[richard_crl032]

Hi R1200CL,

 

Thanks thanks .. LT3045s are nice but think I will stay with stock smps for the regen to avoid any concern raised on grounding by Uptone that is beyond my understanding.

 

Excessive boxes as it is in my system and then another powercord to consider .. already with sgd10k on powercords which is I also do not know how it ended up this way in this crazy hobby. My ER hangs on top of my power outlet box and the AD clock is already on the floor 😅

 

If you proceed, you may want to ask seller for preferred Talema transformer instead of Bingzi as they are variants with it.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: my uptone 1.2 lps is powering my coveted Bel Canto FM-1 tuner

 

[richard_crl032]

4 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I did. Another $33, only 230 VAC. But this is a unsealed transformer. You still recommend to use ?

Oops ... 230v if not applicable certainly not and if unsealed I have no experience with them. 

 

Save usd33 and stock then ?

 

Cheers.

 

[richard_crl032]

For me, I will err on paying usd33 for the Talema.

 

Read up on sealed and unsealed thst seems to be on maintenance and exposure to the elements which is not a concern here.

 

Copper is the expensive component and I have seen the varied type of copper being used to reduce cost, including recycled and mixed aluminium ones.

 

Cheers.

[richard_crl032]

Sorry, means I will pay usd33 more for the Talema unsealed one and forget about it.

 

Others more learned here can shared their tots.

 

Cheers.