Building a DIY Music Server with custom made parts

[Peter Avgeris]

Hello guys.

I am starting this thread after I having received some interest for building music servers chassis with custom made parts that are not everybody's everyday life.

This relates but is not necessarily restricted to copper encasings for CPUs, copper covers, heat pipes, aluminum or  copper heat sinks, etc.

 

IMHO the first issue that needs to be discussed is the specifications that need to be met. So first we need to fix the specs and then we need to proceed to design, manufacturing, etc.

 

Having purchased several HDPlex chassis for building silent PCs, all I can say is that this big chassis is not only good but is also the best around. With the stock supplied heat sinks you can easily dissipate thermal energy coming out of a modern CPU with TDP of around 65 W. If not placed inside a drawer, so there is plenty of air circulation, these sinks can withstand a thermal stress of CPUs with TDP rated at 95W. IMHO this design can practically cover all  requirements for building a modern streamer, in a really good and cost effective way.

 

The major issue I have already anticipated is the flexibility for new CPU designs. For the majority of modern LGA115x CPUS it is OK but for CPUs like Xeon 81xx/61xx/51xx/41xx/31xx or 82xx/62xx/52xx/42xx/32xx the copper assembly is not compatible and custom assemblies need to be manufactured. For dual Xeon motherboards, one heat sink is not enough and both left and right heat sinks need to be used. The length of heat pipes for the left heat sink is not adequate, so custom heat pipes need to be fabricated.

 

All these, along with other issues will be discussed here. For instance, the height of the copper assembly mounted on the CPUs need to be convenient for motherboards that have the RAM chips positioned directly below the heat pipes excursion, as is the case with the majority of my favorite Supermicro boards. The stock supplied solution by HDPlex design imposes serious conflicts with various Supermicro boards even with conventional LGA115x CPUs and high quality (not low profile) RAM chips.

 

This thread will also cover everything needed or required to install the ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard with dual Xeon 61xx/41xx CPUs inside the HDPlex silent chassis.

 

First needs to be discussed the interest for specific CPUs, so we focus to specific design requirements and constraints.

 

Let's go ahead!

[Peter Avgeris]

For example, in my latest build with E5-16xx/26xx CPUs, while the copper brick of HDPlex chassis is compatible, the mounting mechanism with the inox part for LGA2066 narrow ILM socket is incompatible, so new inox parts needed to be cut at the laser jet machine. The same difficulty was met with LGA1366 socket, as the distance between the mounting holes is 80mm instead of the 75mm that apply in the case of LGA15xx designs.

Below you can have a look of the newly fabricated parts, in a way so as they are fully compatible with the stock supplied mechanism of HDPlex chassis. As I explained on another thread, I have the right connections and access to every machine that would ever be needed for any comparable design, even for chassis with exotic/luxurious look and feel, made out from aluminum/copper/epoxy slabs.

 

[Peter Avgeris]

ASRMichael,

you know that you are one of those who ignited me to walk on burning coals 🙂

Here we could discuss even of building something modular, so as to cover all requirements. For instance, someone would like to go the 'cheap' way and use HDPlex stock parts but with some mods. Someone might prefer to go with more luxurious design in terms of aesthetics, with better looking covers, etc. Someone might prefer higher heat dissipation that as we all know, only copper would provide. Or maybe chassis with increased height so as to accommodate full height network/USB/Pink Faun/etc PCI cards and be able to dissipate bigger amounts of heat.

All these parameters can easily be included in a modular design, so either to use HDPlex stock supplied parts or to give you the flexibility to go on your own, the way you need and the way you like.

If something needs to be done, it *MUST* be done the right way from scratch and here I am to help with my knowledge in designing and manufacturing custom parts.

[Peter Avgeris]

1 hour ago, zerung said:

Wonderful Peter. 

I am also in the process of putting together  a ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard with dual Xeon scalable CPU with the 85W TDP. I already have the H5, but faces the issues you have noted. I was also looking at the Truemetal case, but that may be an issue to. 

So I am actively watching this thread

Thank you

Don't waste your time on designs made by this company. They will not be compatible to H5 chassis. If you start building a new chassis allover from the beginning, you will surely end up with something that could be very good. But trying to match different chassis with different cooling solutions from different companies is impossible to be successful.

I have many things into my mind. Even the H5 manufacturer can contribute to this project for the good and convenience of everybody participating here. And in the end, the designs can be passed on to him to support you.

H5 is very flexible and extremely cost effective that is practically unbeatable. I can see no reason for making something that costs say $1000 at the time HDPlex H5 costs less than $300. It surely needs some mods to cover all requirements for all these projects.

This is what we will discuss here.

[Peter Avgeris]

4 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to look into this.

The H5 case for this board would have ideally a slightly thicker base plate.

The standoff holes don't all line up with the Asus C621 board so some extra drilling is needed which is simple enough.

Its a very tight fit in this case theres only a cm spare at the front but its fine if your power supply is external, theres some space left at the side for cabling.

Ideally the height would be taller, so you could get some full height PCIE cards such as the Asus m.2 x16 storage cards.

Well since this the only case currently available and most of us already have one

The main problem everyone is facing is the cooling of the 2 CPU's. If using only one of the heatsinks then a solution would be to use better quality heatpipes attached to a copper heatsink of a good thickness which in turn would then be bolted to the existing heatsink and off couse make a cooler suitable for the xeon cpu which on this board is the square type.

Alternatively if using both heatinks then a cooler using 6mm pipes of a good quality something like what Nenon has done.

 

 

LGT2010, thank you for your post!

Regarding thicker case, no, we cannot go this way. Thicker base leads to thicker machine work of the milling machine for the left & right heatsinks. We need to have compatibility for both entry-level and exotic machines. Increased thickness does not add something useful. Maybe this can be supplied as optional but the thicker base will protrude from the bottom surface of the heat sinks and is not going to be aesthetically pleasant.

 

Of course there need to be additional holes for mounting the ASUS mainboard on to the bottom (base) plate. This is easy to make.

Regarding the addiitonal +1cm space, I can't have an opinion, I need to have the ATX supply by HDPlex here in my lab for experiments.

 

Increased height as standard is out of question. Instead, there needs to be an option for increased height, I fully agree. We don't have the right to push music lovers with entry-level servers to undergo substantially increased cost because we are maniacs. Yes, increased height option is a must!

 

The quality of the heat sinks is very good. Larry has done a great job on this, we all know that. Regarding the quality of the heat pipes, well, I have not the specs into my hands but from what I have observed here, they seem to be well matched to the standards and specs.

 

I cannot see any single reason for going to copper right heat sink. The cost will rise to the sky. We can use the left heat sink instead with zero additional cost. OK, only the cost for left-side heat pipes applies.

 

The securing mechanism of the rectangular plates that hold the heat pipes onto the heat sinks needs to be amended. MUST be amended.

 

Copper blocks for heat transfer are of course a must!

 

Feasibility of using one side of heat sink dedicated for each Xeon processor is a must. Larry will help us for sure, he is one of the most cooperating persons I have dealt with.

 

Thank you for your contribution!

[Peter Avgeris]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

Here is my wishlist:

1. Taller than the H5 case. 

2. Larger heatsink area (#1 would naturally make this happen).

3. Better quality heatsinks. Pure copper would be best. 

4. Thicker cooling pipes - 10mm would be great - with more contact surface to the heatsink. 

5. Utilize both heatsinks for the CPU cooling. 

6. Thicker panels than the HDPlex (top, bottom, and back) with better airflow design.

7. Design the entire case to act like one big heatsink. 

8. Space for the Hdplex 800W DC to DC ATX (#1 would help with that and we can mount it on the front panel).

9. Accommodate full size PCIe cards (#1 would help with that too). 

10. Include LGA 3647 square mounting mechanism and CPU cooling block (copper). 

 

1. Optional taller heat sinks and faceplate/backplate for full height designs. Granted, fully agree

Larger heat sink area is covered by #1 already.

The quality of the heat sinks is very good. Copper will rise the cost dramatically. Insanely. For no reason IMHO. There exists an unused, already processed left side, totally empty, ready to receive heat. If many guys are willing to cover the additional cost, you won't find me against you but at this preliminary stage I am fully against.

Thicker cooling pipes don't add up anything useful. You have already explained the reason: you will not benefit of increased copper area. The only case where thicker pipes could be useful is if we apply higher heat sinks for left and right side. Yes, in this case, the elevated model could benefit of thicker pipes. But in this case I would still prefer additional 6mm pipes instead of less 10mm pipes. Don't forget that bending 10mm pipes is extremely dangerous, while bending the already supplied 6mm ones (OK, up to a degree) is not that difficult or dangerous. Let's say that for the increased height (if we agree on this requirement) we will use 12 pieces instead of 8 for the standard model.

5. Utilize both left & right side heat sinks. Yes. Optional for the dual cpu motherboards. Agree.

Regarding thicker panels, I think that will impose serious obstacles on cost for the entry-level machines. We don;t need to dig inside the pockets of the entry-level DIYers. We need to discuss further on this for the increased height machines.

8. Space for the Hdplex 800W DC to DC ATX. Very important. Granted!

9. Accommodate full size PCIe cards. Needless to say anything about it. Granted (#1 helps)

10. Include LGA 3647 square mounting mechanism and CPU cooling block (copper). Of course granted!

 

I would also like to add 2011 narrow & square ILM mechanism support. I have done it already. Nothing that diffucult.

 

Guys, come on, what else do you want? Write your opinion!

 

[Peter Avgeris]

Forgot to add that the requirement for higher copper blocks for avoiding conflicts with normal (full) height RAM chips has already been incorporated in the design. Larry has just informed me. I had asked for it lately. Thanks Larry!

[Peter Avgeris]

Going from 2 to 3 is nothing that important but the groves need to be thicker by digging deeper on the heatsinks. Otherwise they may protrude and this will not be aesthetically pleasant. 

[Peter Avgeris]

3 hours ago, Downtheline said:

I'd be happy with a black finish, I'm sure there are some that would prefer silver. 

 

I'd hope that this leads to two solutions: 1) a new case with its heatsinks for either the square or narrow ILM socket, in the orientation necessary, and 2) a heatsink assembly for narrow or square ILM for the h5. 

 

This socket requires a plastic clip to hold the cpu in place before setting down on the motherboard. It is different for the different sockets. Of the three heat sinks I bought from noctua, superrmicro and dynatron, the dynatron seemed to have the most simple and elegant assembly of all. It was the B4A model. This would need to be distributed as part of each case, for each heat sink assembly. 

Hello. The top cover can be aluminum, the bottom brick needs to be natural copper and nothing else. Aluminum can get anodized in both natural and black color. 

I know that Dynatron sinks are professionally made. As soon as you have one unit I think that you could contribute to this project. Please keep it so as to arrange shipment sometime after the completion of specs designation. I need to study how deep or shallow it needs to be installed so as to get in touch with the processor. 

Thanks a lot

[Peter Avgeris]

Hello from Athens.

After some discussions here, gathering ideas, I come back for some additional comments.

 

Everything here was initiated for helping DIYers to build their custom streaming machines, based on a solution that has been already tried, evaluated and is working flawlessly. At the same time, a rather important prerequisite is cost considerations. Having access to each and every resource required to perform the metal works, and of course having gathered professional experience in metal works for 18+ years now, I realized that I could help you rather easily. I see here that many of music aficionados try to modify the well known HDPlex chassis to accommodate their ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard for building 'extreme' digital streamers, by using ready made parts and accessories. Unfortunately, this is not possible the way it has been presented here.

 

First and foremost, I need to present myself here. Honestly and with respect to professional builders and manufacturers. I am a mechanical engineer 49 YO with many years of experience in metal works industry, designing and manufacturing metallic parts for the automotive & aerospace industry, nuclear plants & laboratories, research & development departments of multinational companies. Music is my hobby and my passion. Having acquired experience in electromagnetic applications, I got the necessary knowledge in ferromagnetic materials so as to design from scratch applications related to electromagnetism. More specifically I design and manufacture, totally in house, audio amplification components with vacuum tubes for the most demanding music aficionados in the world. This involves design, calculation, winding, manufacturing power supply, interstage & output transformers, power supply chokes and in general everything required. Apart from all these, I design and manufacture the chassis of the whole line of my creations, with contemporary, luxurious aesthetics, following classic vintage lines. I have attached some pictures below, as I assume that nobody knows anything about me here.

 

My purpose here is not to build or to assist in cloning third party products or commercial products of other, reputable manufacturers. I always do my own work, based on my own studies and my own experience and findings or discoveries during the years. It is at least unfair and dishonest to clone or copy products of other companies that hire people, do their work, live their lives out of their job, pay taxes to the governments so as our parents get in turn paid their pension, etc. I would never do and would never be involved into any act or behavior like the one just mentioned. My intention is one and only: to assist some of the DIYers here to have their machines slightly better supported so as to be able to use properly designed and manufactured cooling parts/accessories for their builds.

 

Having all this in mind, the purpose here is not to build something from scratch, something luxurious, something really exotic, something built like a tank, with lower resonances, better anti-vibration support, etc. As you see in the attached pictures, I can build chassis of insane quality, standards and luxuriousness. This is not the concept here. The basic idea is to start from the already HDPlex H5 chassis, which I consider the best currently in the market and be able to accommodate cooling blocks and accessories for some 'strange' motherboards like dual Xeon machines. Minimal interventions with minimal cost and highest return. Of course I can do everything from scratch, with better faceplates, better backplates, extraordinary copper heat sinks of double or triple height. But this is far away from my intentions here.

 

So, going back to the basics, I need to make clear from the beginning that I do not intend to copy other products. Anyone who wants to have the most extraordinary, most exotic streamer, should go and try evaluating commercial products of acclaimed status. Here I want to help with my knowledge some guys that prefer to go the 'cheap' way, with some compromises in build quality & probably aesthetics. So my decision is to stick to HDPlex H5 chassis only, which I consider more than enough for 99% of our cost-effective builds.

 

I would like to please everybody to express his opinions with respect to the specifications presented above. For full height chassis solution, I need to have the cooperation of Larry who runs the HDPlex business. If he does not intend to manufacture full height heat sinks, I am afraid that we need to stick to 'standard production' components and solutions.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

[Peter Avgeris]

1 hour ago, basillus said:

The project goal is to design a heat sink for the LGA3647 socket!

 

I totally agree ;0)

Fully agree as well! 

[Peter Avgeris]

18 hours ago, Dev said:

One of the critical aspect of designing a heat sink is the target TDP. The 3647 CPU ranges from 85watts to over 200watts.
 

Are we still targeting 65watts - 95watts as per current H5 specs ? It would be good to increase this capacity. The more the thermal capacity, the better the cooling even if you are running a low TDP cpu.

Cooling technology is quite simple to understand. More power requires more mass to dissipate hit onto. There exists no other way. Passive cooling requires enormously bigger mass to withstand thermal stress and to dissipate it.

 

It seems that quite a few guys here have not well understood the preliminary parameters. Maybe I am wrong here, if so please correct me, but once more I need to underline that convenience and compromises must also be a preliminary specification. Or restriction, if you want...

 

This modification is studied so as to help DIYers build not *ANY* machine with *ANY* motherboard with *ANY* CPU and *ANY* PCI-e card. It is studied in order to offer a solution that is capable of using one specific motherboard of extended ATX (or enhanced ATX) form, with specific dual CPUs, inside a specific PC case, without fans but only with passive cooling. OK, it will be able to house slightly different MoBos with slightly modified CPU positions and dimensional parameters. Dev, you write that it would be good to increase thermal capacity. In the engineering language this is dead wrong. Trust me! You can definitely build a bridge, I can reassure you that you can. This is totally feasible on your side. Equally safe to walk on it. But I can guarantee you that you will never be able to build a bridge the way I can build it. Never. You know where exactly lies the our difference? Being an engineer, I know where should I cut cost and offer the same specs, same weight handling and same safety.

 

What I need to clarfy is that we *need* to go for solution that does not deviate that much from something that is well tried, well tested and very convenient in terms of cost. If one or two guys want to manufacture something out of this world, I can reassure you that I can do it so easily. It is probably the easiest project I will ever handle. But this is not the case here. I have been expressed increased interest for something specific, so I think that we need to focus on this specific thing and not to get lost in space.

 

After a couple of days, I have realized that there are too many guys that would probably like to have not a universal, trusted, working and cost effective solution but would rather prefer to have something big, luxurious and exotic. Please correct me if I am wrong. As I explained yesterday, I think that we need to focus on HDPlex H5 chassis mods that are fully compatible with the specific ASUS motherboard. I would be pleased if your interest is expressed here, so as to know if the specific project is viable or not. Increased participation will definitely lead to decreased cost.

[Peter Avgeris]

3 hours ago, Aryoh said:

3 hours ago, Dev said:

if you can do all the CAD work for the back panel they will CNC/drill for you at an additional cost. It’s worth if you don’t have the proper tools. I have actually looked at that chassis for a different purpose. 
 

The internal depth is 360x400mm. Assuming that the Hdplex 800w would fit with the Asus Sage, IMO, it’s a great starting point - if we can start doing the CAD for all the back panel cut outs, PCI attachments and heatsink mounts, it would be a terrific option and cheaper even having them CNC it. Then a group buy can further reduce the price 🙂

 

somehow this option https://modushop.biz/site/index.php?route=product/product&path=210_273_275&product_id=209 is much better for me, the biggest problem is the back panel because it needs holes for pcie cards and the motherboard itself, but the heatsinks look promising and the front panel can also be used for hdplex 800 dc-atx converter

Have you ever visited a workshop, requesting for precision milling circular shaped grooves onto heat sinks and then again black-anodize them? I am afraid not, otherwise you wouldn't have asked for it. The cost for milling will be greater than the cost buying the whole chassis. I can guarantee you this.

[Peter Avgeris]

DEV, now you are right.

If you start allover from the beginning, this chassis would be very good indeed.

But you need to consider that there exist so many additional parameters with design & manufacture...

[Peter Avgeris]

40 minutes ago, OAudio said:

 

Powering a PC for SQ is not the same as powering an amplifier. An amp needs a relatively slow transient response from its supplies compared to a PC motherboard. For an amp a two box set up with 0.5m to 0.7m of umbilical and internal wiring and umbilical chassis connectors can be ok. For a Audio PC this setup tends to limit SQ performance particularly on more powerful and current hungry motherboards.

 

 

 

 

OAudio, you are sooo right!

PCs work on the current domain, they require current, while amps require voltage. Power hungry motherboards do exist. The umbilical cables of thin copper conductors are a catastrophe for powering hungry motherboards.

Even in my audio power amplifiers, I do consider the second chassis and the umbilical cables a very serious restriction that can be worth doing but only following very strict design specs without losing sound quality.

 

Finally! This is a really constructive and supporting comment!

[Peter Avgeris]

Meanwhile I need to inform you that one motherboard ASUS C621e SAGE, along with two Intel Xeon 4210 CPUs are on their way to me. Probably by next week they will be into my hands.

[Peter Avgeris]

28 minutes ago, jabbr said:

ock rates.

 

28 minutes ago, jabbr said:

The 621 platform is good because you have more PCIe lanes but that CPU has a very slow base frequency which is not ideal for audio processing which needs horsepower ... my W-2245 cores run at 1.2 Ghz when not loaded even though the base is 3.9 Ghz....

 

My prior dual E5 server has lots of cores (40) and I am using it for non-audio purposes ... for HQPlayer, for example, you want high clock rates.

 

I think your gorgeous metalwork would be best off in, for example, an i9-10900k, i9-9900ks and Xeon W-2200 series which can generate some real single core heat  

You are so right.

I have experienced cases where additional cores do nothing at all. If you need high processing power, you do not need many cores, unless you go for parallel processing, embedded into the source code of the program.

I am not experienced in ASUS C621 SAGE and dual Xeon CPUs. If they draw too much current, thermal stress could rise to the sky, if not then even one side (right side) of aluminum heat sink might be more than enough. On the other hand, with a single CPU on the MoBo pictured above, running at full speed, a full heat sink dedicated to 1x CPU is not enough.

This is the reason that I strongly prefer to stick in something that can be realized as a whole, eg one specific MoBo (eg ASUS) and two specific CPUs. Or even the above-pictured MoBO with one CPU only.

[Peter Avgeris]

I am really speechless of this nice conversation. 

Nenon, Yes, I am open for full height chassis. But let's first check what we need to focus on, which MoBo/CPU(s)/PCH architecture. 

 

Regarding my personal experience, specially for Euphony, single or dual pc setup, I haven't found a reason to go for high computational power. I have never liked oversampling with HQPlayer and too many CPU cores. Also, I have not got positive results with multi-threading & turbo boost. Maybe I am totally wrong but my own results have been straightforward so far, however I am always willing to listen for new ideas and opinions of people that are more experienced than me. 

[Peter Avgeris]

Summing it up...

 

Up to now, we have three options in total:

1. ASUS C621e SAGE (https://www.asus.com/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/WS-C621E-SAGE/)
   This motherboard is loaded with LGA3647 socket to handle scalable Xeon family of processors. It seems that many guys already have this MoBo. Copper bricks for heat dissipation do not exist and need to be designed & manufactured from scratch.
2. ASUS ProArt Z490-CREATOR 10G (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ProArt-Z490-CREATOR-10G/)
   This motherboard is loaded with the new LGA1200 socket for 10th gen i7/i5/i3 Intel processors. Coolers for LGA1200 are the same as in LGA115x stock copper bricks are compatible
3. ASUS Pro WS W480-ACE (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-WS-W480-ACE/)
   This motherboard is also loaded with LGA1200 socket for the newest Xeon W-Series processors. No need for new parts
4. ASUS Pro WS X570-ACE (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/)
   This is AMD AM4 socket for newest AMD processors with support for PCIe 4

From all the above, only the 1st C621e MoBo is not compatible with the HDPlex H5 chassis. It is the one that I am expecting to receive pretty soon. It is so interesting that a few guys here have access to W480 motherboard. If I was to go from scratch, I would select this one, but with audio sometimes things get really crazy.

I will have the chance to evaluate this motherboard with only the basics so as to compare apples to apples. Without excessive HQPlayer processing, it would be nice to compare my best (so far) sounding Xeon system(s) to this motherboard. If anybody living in EU has a W480 along with its own Xeon (any type) and could part its beloved MoBo for around a month (including 2-way shipment), I would be thankful. I intend to compare everything I have access to, so as to know all of us which might be the next step in digital streaming. And of course X570 is of equal (if not higher) interest as well...

[Peter Avgeris]

21 hours ago, Nenon said:

A lot of speculations of what works and what does not. Having tested and retested some of the stuff multiple times, I disagree with quite a few things said here about what works better and what is worse. But I don't think that's the right thread for these discussions and don't really have the time to go into hot debates. I suggest we focus on how the Hdplex can be modded for more versatile DIY usage with some of the specific motherboards and CPUs mentioned here. It's obvious that @Peter Avgeris's intentions are not to design a new case from scratch. He seems open to that idea, but the topic here is about the Hdplex H5 case. 

 

Our common friend from Germany has shipped him his Asus Sage motherboard and dual CPU after discussing with me. Big thanks to him for that! He is also willing to deal with receiving any components from Peter and shipping outside of the EU (i.e. to the US for instance). Plus shipping from Germany to the US is not that expensive. 

 

Can we go back on track?

Peter - I had four suggestions given your feedback. Which ones do you think are doable? Appreciate your help with this.

 

Thank you!

Yes! I am open to do a full-height version, it is not something that difficult. One CPU can connect to the right side and the other CPU to the other side, there is plenty of free space for copper heat pipes for the second CPU. HDPlex H5 chassis is 100% perfect for ASUS C621 SAGE MoBo equipped with 2x CPUs up to 95W each one. I think that it is reasonable to focus on this project first. It is doable, you won't need to break the bank, it is nice 'n cozy, low-profile height. Now, if you want to connect HDPlex 800w P/S unit, then, OK, do something externally, Larry has the ATX chassis sockets. I think that this needs to be No.1 priority.

Yes, shipping to and from Germany is nothing important. Shipping to and from USA is troublesome and very problematic. At least we have this alternative that works fine.

All your suggestions seem to be absolutely doable. The one that changes things dramatically is the full height, because I need to order Junior (https://www.kuehlkoerper.de/en/) or Fischer (https://www.fischerelektronik.de/) Heat Sinks. These factories have tremendous support and can do all the grooves and whole metal work in general, threads opening, etc on the sinks in order to accommodate copper pipes of required diameter, back plates, front plate. Just name it and you have it, I explained you from the beginning this is sooo easy for me to do. The most difficult aspect of all (trust me, I have big experience in collaborating with people!) is to join different people's opinion and try to mix the ingredients so as to end up with the most convenient, beautiful and cost effective solution for all of us.

[Peter Avgeris]

5 hours ago, Dev said:

The whole purpose of this thread is how do we manage a Asus Sage C621e motherboard and mount two Xeon scalable in a Hdplex H5 case. 

Can we all stick to LGA3647 socket mounts and Asus Sage C621e (or possibly another motherboard or two with 3647) on a HDplex H5 in this thread please ?

 

Other sockets lga1200, lga2066, different types of motherboards, different types of CPUs and their benefits with HQP can be discussed outside this thread. There are endless suggestion and debates around these that will only confuse this thread further.

Yes. The purpose is more or less as you write. But here it seems that something new, that might prove as equally interesting in the (near) future, has come to light. How about a single cpu system with this chipset? 

 

As I informed you, a dual cpu MoBo is on its way to my place. I will have the chance of evaluating single vs dual cpu performance, with the Xeon CPUs of Taiko Audio's machine. Something deep inside my mind tells me that probably this specific motherboard with C621 chipset may perform better with single CPU. 

 

Either way, this does not affect the project, or may affect it with minimal impact. That means the main purpose of this effort is to house a machine that a lot of DIYers and enthusiasts here seem to like a lot. 

 

BUT:

Here comes the next step. As soon as this will be done, why not to be able to make something that will be compatible to 2 or 3 other combinations that seem to be of equal interest? For example, a single CPU ASUS 3647 MoBo, another one with the modern W Xeons, etc? 

 

I see that many are, or possibly would be, interested in full height chassis. This is nothing that difficult. Stacking two heat sinks is out of question for my standards. As soon as something will be done from the beginning, why not done properly? 

 

We should not worry of the possibility that this thread might go off track. We are all on track. This is why everybody expresses his own opinion. We need to include several options. And end up with a solution that could serve various options. 

[Peter Avgeris]

Hi guys!

After some days of absence, I am back for some discussion.

I am waiting to receive the ASUS motherboard along with two Xeon Silver scalable CPUs.

I will have plenty of time to measure the current that these processors will draw, along with the current that the motherboard will require.

 

Judging from your comments, I assume that we need to go for full height and not for the plain 'n good solution with HDPlex H5 chassis.

 

I think that most will agree here, right? The full height chassis will definitely have increased cost but if somebody wants to go to the end of the road regarding SQ, the full height chassis seems to be the only choice.

 

I would like to have some opinions on this...

[Peter Avgeris]

2 hours ago, Nenon said:

+1

 

Not sure how this is relevant to the chassis, but you are looking at around 150-200W (closer to 150W here) total depending on how you use the two CPUs. In my case, its drawing around 6-6.5A continuous for the CPUs EPS connector. Around 40W for the motherboard. And my LPS dissipates a double digit number of Watts in heat. 

I hate giving such numbers, because from an engineering point view they are never accurate. If you look at the CPU current draw at a millisecond or nanosecond level, you will find it very bursty - and easily tripling the numbers above. That's why a more powerful power supply helps. Also, fill this motherboard with PCIe cards and memory, configure for low latency / high computation, and run some complex calculations (i.e. HQP) and watch it easily draw 350W-400W. 

 

 

Hello nenon

The reason I need to motherboard and the CPUs is of course their dimensions, as they are required for mechanical drawings. Besides this, I need the full setup in order to measure the current with utmost precision. I will plug the switching power supply rated at 750 watts with specialized cables, through which I will be able to measure the current on the oscilloscope. I will be able to check if there is any burst mode of current as you write. 

I find all this story as totally silly. It is ridiculous to provide so much current. But from the moment you wrote with emphasis on all this, then I am so curious to measure, check and listen carefully. Of course you verified already all this craziness and most likely you are right. You did so good to warn me about this enormous amount of current,at least I am now prepared! 

[Peter Avgeris]

Guys,

I have good news to announce.

Just received everything to start the experiments for building the chassis for the beast.

 

As a preliminary comment, I have never hold such a monstrous motherboard in my hands. You don't really know if you don't have first hand experience!

 

Let's go!!!

 

[Peter Avgeris]

On 6/10/2020 at 6:04 AM, Hauser said:

Still busy researching but have some ideas for the LGA3647 heatsink: sketch attached.  Studied Taiko's version and I'm sure its weight exceeds Intel's spec. of 600g.  Suspecting its supported from underneath.  For those with a lower DIY interest, maybe me included, I'm also considering a simpler version.  Cooltex on Aliexpress sell a skived copper heatsink.  Removing the fins provides a suitable base.  Using solder paste to attach a 58 x 94 x 1/4 inch copper plate would only leave some cutting, drilling, tapping and U slotting for the upper parts; typing this, still doesn't sound that simple.  Peter may have some more ideas.

 

Martin.

Hello Martin. 

I have received the board and 2x CPUs. Unfortunately the Ram chips are not compatible. I am waiting for the new ram chips so I will be able to fire up this unit. Regarding the specs of 600gr,judging from my preliminary look, this might not seem quite feasible if made with copper. Copper is surely preferable for smaller bricks but for such monstrous bricks, my preliminary calculations lead me to aluminum bricks. What matters is mass, along with conductivity, nothing else. Aluminum vs copper is 136:231 in terms of conductivity and 271:894 in terms of weight. Copper might be better for getting heat off the cpus but at seriously increased weight. Bricks do not necessarily need to be made from copper. I am studying the option of building smaller plates out of copper and then bigger bricks made of aluminum on top of them. 

I think the 600gr limit is impossible to be followed, but I don't thing that this is a serious limitation because the force applied by the locking mechanism is already excessive. If you put the mobo flat this limitation is absolutely irrelevant but if you put it vertical, then IMHO the weight of 600gr is already too big. In our case I would dare to write that the limit of 600gr must *not* be followed. But you should not even dare of putting the mobo in vertical position! 

 

For sure this is not a simple task, much more complicated than what I was initially considering. I plan to make some drawings after I have received the ram chips.