Building a DIY Music Server with custom made parts

[Peter Avgeris]

Hello guys.

I am starting this thread after I having received some interest for building music servers chassis with custom made parts that are not everybody's everyday life.

This relates but is not necessarily restricted to copper encasings for CPUs, copper covers, heat pipes, aluminum or  copper heat sinks, etc.

 

IMHO the first issue that needs to be discussed is the specifications that need to be met. So first we need to fix the specs and then we need to proceed to design, manufacturing, etc.

 

Having purchased several HDPlex chassis for building silent PCs, all I can say is that this big chassis is not only good but is also the best around. With the stock supplied heat sinks you can easily dissipate thermal energy coming out of a modern CPU with TDP of around 65 W. If not placed inside a drawer, so there is plenty of air circulation, these sinks can withstand a thermal stress of CPUs with TDP rated at 95W. IMHO this design can practically cover all  requirements for building a modern streamer, in a really good and cost effective way.

 

The major issue I have already anticipated is the flexibility for new CPU designs. For the majority of modern LGA115x CPUS it is OK but for CPUs like Xeon 81xx/61xx/51xx/41xx/31xx or 82xx/62xx/52xx/42xx/32xx the copper assembly is not compatible and custom assemblies need to be manufactured. For dual Xeon motherboards, one heat sink is not enough and both left and right heat sinks need to be used. The length of heat pipes for the left heat sink is not adequate, so custom heat pipes need to be fabricated.

 

All these, along with other issues will be discussed here. For instance, the height of the copper assembly mounted on the CPUs need to be convenient for motherboards that have the RAM chips positioned directly below the heat pipes excursion, as is the case with the majority of my favorite Supermicro boards. The stock supplied solution by HDPlex design imposes serious conflicts with various Supermicro boards even with conventional LGA115x CPUs and high quality (not low profile) RAM chips.

 

This thread will also cover everything needed or required to install the ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard with dual Xeon 61xx/41xx CPUs inside the HDPlex silent chassis.

 

First needs to be discussed the interest for specific CPUs, so we focus to specific design requirements and constraints.

 

Let's go ahead!

[The Computer Audiophile]

I love it Peter. Great idea.

[Peter Avgeris]

For example, in my latest build with E5-16xx/26xx CPUs, while the copper brick of HDPlex chassis is compatible, the mounting mechanism with the inox part for LGA2066 narrow ILM socket is incompatible, so new inox parts needed to be cut at the laser jet machine. The same difficulty was met with LGA1366 socket, as the distance between the mounting holes is 80mm instead of the 75mm that apply in the case of LGA15xx designs.

Below you can have a look of the newly fabricated parts, in a way so as they are fully compatible with the stock supplied mechanism of HDPlex chassis. As I explained on another thread, I have the right connections and access to every machine that would ever be needed for any comparable design, even for chassis with exotic/luxurious look and feel, made out from aluminum/copper/epoxy slabs.

 

[ASRMichael]

Sounds exciting Peter.

 

I think this is the thread a lot of people have been looking for..... Having a case that is as good, aesthetically and built like Taiko Extreme is something I would die for!! 

 

Let's go......:) 

[Peter Avgeris]

ASRMichael,

you know that you are one of those who ignited me to walk on burning coals 🙂

Here we could discuss even of building something modular, so as to cover all requirements. For instance, someone would like to go the 'cheap' way and use HDPlex stock parts but with some mods. Someone might prefer to go with more luxurious design in terms of aesthetics, with better looking covers, etc. Someone might prefer higher heat dissipation that as we all know, only copper would provide. Or maybe chassis with increased height so as to accommodate full height network/USB/Pink Faun/etc PCI cards and be able to dissipate bigger amounts of heat.

All these parameters can easily be included in a modular design, so either to use HDPlex stock supplied parts or to give you the flexibility to go on your own, the way you need and the way you like.

If something needs to be done, it *MUST* be done the right way from scratch and here I am to help with my knowledge in designing and manufacturing custom parts.

[zerung]

Wonderful Peter. 

I am also in the process of putting together  a ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard with dual Xeon scalable CPU with the 85W TDP. I already have the H5, but faces the issues you have noted. I was also looking at the Truemetal case, but that may be an issue to. 

So I am actively watching this thread

Thank you

[Peter Avgeris]

1 hour ago, zerung said:

Wonderful Peter. 

I am also in the process of putting together  a ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard with dual Xeon scalable CPU with the 85W TDP. I already have the H5, but faces the issues you have noted. I was also looking at the Truemetal case, but that may be an issue to. 

So I am actively watching this thread

Thank you

Don't waste your time on designs made by this company. They will not be compatible to H5 chassis. If you start building a new chassis allover from the beginning, you will surely end up with something that could be very good. But trying to match different chassis with different cooling solutions from different companies is impossible to be successful.

I have many things into my mind. Even the H5 manufacturer can contribute to this project for the good and convenience of everybody participating here. And in the end, the designs can be passed on to him to support you.

H5 is very flexible and extremely cost effective that is practically unbeatable. I can see no reason for making something that costs say $1000 at the time HDPlex H5 costs less than $300. It surely needs some mods to cover all requirements for all these projects.

This is what we will discuss here.

[LTG2010]

Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to look into this.

The H5 case for this board would have ideally a slightly thicker base plate.

The standoff holes don't all line up with the Asus C621 board so some extra drilling is needed which is simple enough.

Its a very tight fit in this case theres only a cm spare at the front but its fine if your power supply is external, theres some space left at the side for cabling.

Ideally the height would be taller, so you could get some full height PCIE cards such as the Asus m.2 x16 storage cards.

Well since this the only case currently available and most of us already have one

The main problem everyone is facing is the cooling of the 2 CPU's. If using only one of the heatsinks then a solution would be to use better quality heatpipes attached to a copper heatsink of a good thickness which in turn would then be bolted to the existing heatsink and off couse make a cooler suitable for the xeon cpu which on this board is the square type.

Alternatively if using both heatinks then a cooler using 6mm pipes of a good quality something like what Nenon has done.

[Nenon]

Here is my wishlist:

1. Taller than the H5 case. 

2. Larger heatsink area (#1 would naturally make this happen).

3. Better quality heatsinks. Pure copper would be best. 

4. Thicker cooling pipes - 10mm would be great - with more contact surface to the heatsink. 

5. Utilize both heatsinks for the CPU cooling. 

6. Thicker panels than the HDPlex (top, bottom, and back) with better airflow design.

7. Design the entire case to act like one big heatsink. 

8. Space for the Hdplex 800W DC to DC ATX (#1 would help with that and we can mount it on the front panel).

9. Accommodate full size PCIe cards (#1 would help with that too). 

10. Include LGA 3647 square mounting mechanism and CPU cooling block (copper). 

[Foggie]

Maybe a bit of a random question, I understand (to a point) why fans aren't desired in some of these builds. 

 

However, the amount of (cooling) work involved in going completely fanless is apparent and I assume at an increased cost as well as case/packaging requirements.

 

Isn't there a solution available (or yet to be designed) to incorporate fan(s), especially ones of the silent type or some hybrid approach?  Is it just induced noise, additional power requirements etc..that's undesirable?

[Peter Avgeris]

4 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to look into this.

The H5 case for this board would have ideally a slightly thicker base plate.

The standoff holes don't all line up with the Asus C621 board so some extra drilling is needed which is simple enough.

Its a very tight fit in this case theres only a cm spare at the front but its fine if your power supply is external, theres some space left at the side for cabling.

Ideally the height would be taller, so you could get some full height PCIE cards such as the Asus m.2 x16 storage cards.

Well since this the only case currently available and most of us already have one

The main problem everyone is facing is the cooling of the 2 CPU's. If using only one of the heatsinks then a solution would be to use better quality heatpipes attached to a copper heatsink of a good thickness which in turn would then be bolted to the existing heatsink and off couse make a cooler suitable for the xeon cpu which on this board is the square type.

Alternatively if using both heatinks then a cooler using 6mm pipes of a good quality something like what Nenon has done.

 

 

LGT2010, thank you for your post!

Regarding thicker case, no, we cannot go this way. Thicker base leads to thicker machine work of the milling machine for the left & right heatsinks. We need to have compatibility for both entry-level and exotic machines. Increased thickness does not add something useful. Maybe this can be supplied as optional but the thicker base will protrude from the bottom surface of the heat sinks and is not going to be aesthetically pleasant.

 

Of course there need to be additional holes for mounting the ASUS mainboard on to the bottom (base) plate. This is easy to make.

Regarding the addiitonal +1cm space, I can't have an opinion, I need to have the ATX supply by HDPlex here in my lab for experiments.

 

Increased height as standard is out of question. Instead, there needs to be an option for increased height, I fully agree. We don't have the right to push music lovers with entry-level servers to undergo substantially increased cost because we are maniacs. Yes, increased height option is a must!

 

The quality of the heat sinks is very good. Larry has done a great job on this, we all know that. Regarding the quality of the heat pipes, well, I have not the specs into my hands but from what I have observed here, they seem to be well matched to the standards and specs.

 

I cannot see any single reason for going to copper right heat sink. The cost will rise to the sky. We can use the left heat sink instead with zero additional cost. OK, only the cost for left-side heat pipes applies.

 

The securing mechanism of the rectangular plates that hold the heat pipes onto the heat sinks needs to be amended. MUST be amended.

 

Copper blocks for heat transfer are of course a must!

 

Feasibility of using one side of heat sink dedicated for each Xeon processor is a must. Larry will help us for sure, he is one of the most cooperating persons I have dealt with.

 

Thank you for your contribution!

[Peter Avgeris]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

Here is my wishlist:

1. Taller than the H5 case. 

2. Larger heatsink area (#1 would naturally make this happen).

3. Better quality heatsinks. Pure copper would be best. 

4. Thicker cooling pipes - 10mm would be great - with more contact surface to the heatsink. 

5. Utilize both heatsinks for the CPU cooling. 

6. Thicker panels than the HDPlex (top, bottom, and back) with better airflow design.

7. Design the entire case to act like one big heatsink. 

8. Space for the Hdplex 800W DC to DC ATX (#1 would help with that and we can mount it on the front panel).

9. Accommodate full size PCIe cards (#1 would help with that too). 

10. Include LGA 3647 square mounting mechanism and CPU cooling block (copper). 

 

1. Optional taller heat sinks and faceplate/backplate for full height designs. Granted, fully agree

Larger heat sink area is covered by #1 already.

The quality of the heat sinks is very good. Copper will rise the cost dramatically. Insanely. For no reason IMHO. There exists an unused, already processed left side, totally empty, ready to receive heat. If many guys are willing to cover the additional cost, you won't find me against you but at this preliminary stage I am fully against.

Thicker cooling pipes don't add up anything useful. You have already explained the reason: you will not benefit of increased copper area. The only case where thicker pipes could be useful is if we apply higher heat sinks for left and right side. Yes, in this case, the elevated model could benefit of thicker pipes. But in this case I would still prefer additional 6mm pipes instead of less 10mm pipes. Don't forget that bending 10mm pipes is extremely dangerous, while bending the already supplied 6mm ones (OK, up to a degree) is not that difficult or dangerous. Let's say that for the increased height (if we agree on this requirement) we will use 12 pieces instead of 8 for the standard model.

5. Utilize both left & right side heat sinks. Yes. Optional for the dual cpu motherboards. Agree.

Regarding thicker panels, I think that will impose serious obstacles on cost for the entry-level machines. We don;t need to dig inside the pockets of the entry-level DIYers. We need to discuss further on this for the increased height machines.

8. Space for the Hdplex 800W DC to DC ATX. Very important. Granted!

9. Accommodate full size PCIe cards. Needless to say anything about it. Granted (#1 helps)

10. Include LGA 3647 square mounting mechanism and CPU cooling block (copper). Of course granted!

 

I would also like to add 2011 narrow & square ILM mechanism support. I have done it already. Nothing that diffucult.

 

Guys, come on, what else do you want? Write your opinion!

 

[Peter Avgeris]

Forgot to add that the requirement for higher copper blocks for avoiding conflicts with normal (full) height RAM chips has already been incorporated in the design. Larry has just informed me. I had asked for it lately. Thanks Larry!

[Nsxturbo]

Hey Peter,

 

Your efforts are so greatly appreciated by so many of us DIY computer audiophiles!
 

I would love options 1,5,8,9 as I also have a Sage 621 build. 

 

Todd

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Regarding thicker panels, I think that will impose serious obstacles on cost for the entry-level machines. We don;t need to dig inside the pockets of the entry-level DIYers.

I mean 3mm instead of 2mm. The Hdplex panels are super thin, and I don't like that. 

[Peter Avgeris]

Going from 2 to 3 is nothing that important but the groves need to be thicker by digging deeper on the heatsinks. Otherwise they may protrude and this will not be aesthetically pleasant. 

[Downtheline]

I'd be happy with a black finish, I'm sure there are some that would prefer silver. 

 

I'd hope that this leads to two solutions: 1) a new case with its heatsinks for either the square or narrow ILM socket, in the orientation necessary, and 2) a heatsink assembly for narrow or square ILM for the h5. 

 

This socket requires a plastic clip to hold the cpu in place before setting down on the motherboard. It is different for the different sockets. Of the three heat sinks I bought from noctua, superrmicro and dynatron, the dynatron seemed to have the most simple and elegant assembly of all. It was the B4A model. This would need to be distributed as part of each case, for each heat sink assembly. 

[zerung]

12 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Don't waste your time on designs made by this company. They will not be compatible to H5 chassis. If you start building a new chassis allover from the beginning, you will surely end up with something that could be very good. But trying to match different chassis with different cooling solutions from different companies is impossible to be successful.

I have many things into my mind. Even the H5 manufacturer can contribute to this project for the good and convenience of everybody participating here. And in the end, the designs can be passed on to him to support you.

H5 is very flexible and extremely cost effective that is practically unbeatable. I can see no reason for making something that costs say $1000 at the time HDPlex H5 costs less than $300. It surely needs some mods to cover all requirements for all these projects.

This is what we will discuss here.

In agreement Peter. I would like to keep all avenues open. 

[Peter Avgeris]

3 hours ago, Downtheline said:

I'd be happy with a black finish, I'm sure there are some that would prefer silver. 

 

I'd hope that this leads to two solutions: 1) a new case with its heatsinks for either the square or narrow ILM socket, in the orientation necessary, and 2) a heatsink assembly for narrow or square ILM for the h5. 

 

This socket requires a plastic clip to hold the cpu in place before setting down on the motherboard. It is different for the different sockets. Of the three heat sinks I bought from noctua, superrmicro and dynatron, the dynatron seemed to have the most simple and elegant assembly of all. It was the B4A model. This would need to be distributed as part of each case, for each heat sink assembly. 

Hello. The top cover can be aluminum, the bottom brick needs to be natural copper and nothing else. Aluminum can get anodized in both natural and black color. 

I know that Dynatron sinks are professionally made. As soon as you have one unit I think that you could contribute to this project. Please keep it so as to arrange shipment sometime after the completion of specs designation. I need to study how deep or shallow it needs to be installed so as to get in touch with the processor. 

Thanks a lot

[Gavin1977]

To add to Nenons list - chassis feet.  The threaded holes on the HDPlex baseplate for the feet are covered by the motherboard, therefore feet can only be installed prior to the motherboard.  Would be good if there was clear access to them or if they could be screwed into place externally.  This would allow for easy upgrade in the future... or just include an option of integral vibration isolation.

 

I also don't know if it worth considering an internal base plate as per https://modushop.biz/site/index.php?route=product/category&path=311_316  Might give the possibility to run wiring underneath and also make the bottom of the chassis look cleaner if custom drill holes are used.

[basillus]

At least a 10mm anodized beautiful front with place to a round powerbutton and >8mm back.

[OAudio]

23 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

IMHO the first issue that needs to be discussed is the specifications that need to be met.

 

Peter hi,

 

Agreed, I would go with:

• optimised sound quality first,
• then component  compatibility, manufacture, and ease of build.

I think for optimised sound quality you might want to think about some research. I use active cooling at the moment, but this is only to eliminate thermal considerations whilst developing my server (no impact on sound quality). Passive cooling is coming in time which I have looked at for the C620 series. I am not going into details of the research here but it may help to know that the cooling design, even the passive approach you are looking at has a bearing on sound quality. Defiantly the case for C620 / LGA3647 but also for X99 and X79 and LGA 2011 builds, I have no experience of LGA115x. 

 

This said this the lions share of the cooling related SQ probably comes from move to passive which I am positive you know , so making this accessible to people doing builds is a great goal.

 

OAudio

[adamaley]

2 hours ago, basillus said:

At least a 10mm anodized beautiful front with place to a round powerbutton and >8mm back.

I would prefer it if we prioritize functionality to the end goal of better sound over aesthetics or convenience. That way we can keep the cost down.

 

I do think visual and  convenience options should be at an optional premium to those who want them rather than being a part of the standard package.

[LTG2010]

https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/chassis/products/deluxe-5u-ultimate-amplifier-chassis?variant=12212123204

 

This might be a good case to mod - it has giant heatsinks. Its made by modushop and can also be bought from Italy. They are able to replace the back panel with one for a computer board, ie cut out the openings for the board faceplate and vertical PCIE slots.

They could also cut the grooves for heatpipes but they need cad drawings. I suppose they could also mill the cpu heatsink from the drawings.

It also has more space internally and the height aids passive ventilation.

The alternative is to provide them with a drawing for a case from scratch, but I suppose you already have access to such facilities in Greece.

[Peter Avgeris]

Hello from Athens.

After some discussions here, gathering ideas, I come back for some additional comments.

 

Everything here was initiated for helping DIYers to build their custom streaming machines, based on a solution that has been already tried, evaluated and is working flawlessly. At the same time, a rather important prerequisite is cost considerations. Having access to each and every resource required to perform the metal works, and of course having gathered professional experience in metal works for 18+ years now, I realized that I could help you rather easily. I see here that many of music aficionados try to modify the well known HDPlex chassis to accommodate their ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard for building 'extreme' digital streamers, by using ready made parts and accessories. Unfortunately, this is not possible the way it has been presented here.

 

First and foremost, I need to present myself here. Honestly and with respect to professional builders and manufacturers. I am a mechanical engineer 49 YO with many years of experience in metal works industry, designing and manufacturing metallic parts for the automotive & aerospace industry, nuclear plants & laboratories, research & development departments of multinational companies. Music is my hobby and my passion. Having acquired experience in electromagnetic applications, I got the necessary knowledge in ferromagnetic materials so as to design from scratch applications related to electromagnetism. More specifically I design and manufacture, totally in house, audio amplification components with vacuum tubes for the most demanding music aficionados in the world. This involves design, calculation, winding, manufacturing power supply, interstage & output transformers, power supply chokes and in general everything required. Apart from all these, I design and manufacture the chassis of the whole line of my creations, with contemporary, luxurious aesthetics, following classic vintage lines. I have attached some pictures below, as I assume that nobody knows anything about me here.

 

My purpose here is not to build or to assist in cloning third party products or commercial products of other, reputable manufacturers. I always do my own work, based on my own studies and my own experience and findings or discoveries during the years. It is at least unfair and dishonest to clone or copy products of other companies that hire people, do their work, live their lives out of their job, pay taxes to the governments so as our parents get in turn paid their pension, etc. I would never do and would never be involved into any act or behavior like the one just mentioned. My intention is one and only: to assist some of the DIYers here to have their machines slightly better supported so as to be able to use properly designed and manufactured cooling parts/accessories for their builds.

 

Having all this in mind, the purpose here is not to build something from scratch, something luxurious, something really exotic, something built like a tank, with lower resonances, better anti-vibration support, etc. As you see in the attached pictures, I can build chassis of insane quality, standards and luxuriousness. This is not the concept here. The basic idea is to start from the already HDPlex H5 chassis, which I consider the best currently in the market and be able to accommodate cooling blocks and accessories for some 'strange' motherboards like dual Xeon machines. Minimal interventions with minimal cost and highest return. Of course I can do everything from scratch, with better faceplates, better backplates, extraordinary copper heat sinks of double or triple height. But this is far away from my intentions here.

 

So, going back to the basics, I need to make clear from the beginning that I do not intend to copy other products. Anyone who wants to have the most extraordinary, most exotic streamer, should go and try evaluating commercial products of acclaimed status. Here I want to help with my knowledge some guys that prefer to go the 'cheap' way, with some compromises in build quality & probably aesthetics. So my decision is to stick to HDPlex H5 chassis only, which I consider more than enough for 99% of our cost-effective builds.

 

I would like to please everybody to express his opinions with respect to the specifications presented above. For full height chassis solution, I need to have the cooperation of Larry who runs the HDPlex business. If he does not intend to manufacture full height heat sinks, I am afraid that we need to stick to 'standard production' components and solutions.

 

Thank you for your understanding.