Best Server Currently to replace the Zenith SE

[Blackmorec]

6 hours ago, Yorkshireman said:

I'm looking to replace my Innuos Zenith SE and was hoping to get some advice from the good people of Audiophile Style on whether I should go for the Innuos Statement or if there is currently a better alternative at a similar price point.

 

I am not techy enough to build my own custom made server so will have to rely on an off the shelf ready to go option.

 

All feedback, advice and opinions are welcomed.

Hi there,

just sharing a few of my experiences in bullet form

• the performance of the Zenith SE can be improved quite remarkably through high quality USB cable like Sablon or Synergistic Research
• Both the SE and the Statement respond well to better power cables
• the main area to upgrade a Zenith SE are with improvements to the front end network streaming. Optimizing routers, ethernet cables, power supplies, DC cables and vibration control can improve performance quite dramatically
• adding a Phoenix USB reclocking unit with its 3ppb OCXO clock and dedicated LPS seriously uplifts performance
• then there’s the Statement which adds a great deal more finesse, purity and improved timing which makes for a more detailed, natural, organic, musical presentation with state of the art pace, rhythm and timing.
• Finally there’s Statement with upgraded DC umbilical cables which subjectively uplifts performance by a very significant degree.
• Bottom line, the base performance of the Innuos units is quite magical but there’s a whole lot more to be had with some careful set up and network optimization. 

[Blackmorec]

Just to help put things into perspective.....Lets take a hypothetical system and budget as follows

A. Zenith SE at £0. (You already have it)

B. Network optimisation budget £2000*

C. Innuos Phoenix plus extra USB cable £4000

D. Innuos Statement £10,000

Lets designate SQ as the measure and use the signs < (less than) and  > (greater than) 

A+B >A+C

A+C<D

A+B+C >D

A+B+C< B+D

B+D has the potential to produce some of the best SQ you may have ever heard....at least in my case and I’ve heard many high end systems over 40 years!

* optimised network includes router, ethernet cables or FO, Linear Power Supplies and anti-vibration measures.

 

 

[Blackmorec]

4 minutes ago, k-man said:

There’s a bit of talk around about a Taiko Extreme ‘Mini’ which can be half the price or less of the Extreme. I would expect it to perform better than the Statement.

I’m interested why would you expect it to sound better than the Statement?  

[Blackmorec]

1 hour ago, Yorkshireman said:

Thanks for your input and for taking the time to lay out the options in a very analytical and rational way. What would be your current ideal way of achieving your "B. Network optimisation budget £2000*" option ???

My choices are based on being resident in the UK.

 

To achieve an optimised network, I would look at products like the EtherRegen switch, the TPLInk Archer AC5400 tri-band router (for wireless or copper), TPLink RE650 access point/extender for wireless receiver, or a Ubiquity Edge router, good quality LPSs like Sean Jacobs or Paul Heinz, good quality Ethernet cords like Meicord or above and Atacama Evoque Eco Compact Series racks or bases for vibration control under PSs. 

 

I did the whole thing in a stepwise manner and each step was an improvement (at least in my network)

For your router you need to make sure you are getting a Broadcom chipset and avoiding the really crappy Intel Puma 6 with its serious latency problems.  For long runs, I prefer wireless (where I use the TPLink RE650) or FO rather than standard CAT5 or Cat 6 cable. 

 

Of course you can spend a lot more than £2000. I have in the meantime upgraded cables to a Synergistic Research loom, power supplies to SJ DC-3s with Mundorf Silver/Gold DC cables generously and beautifully fabricated by Nenon and SR power cables. Each upgrade makes a very audible positive step in SQ and the better your system gets, the bigger the upticks in SQ become. 

[Blackmorec]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Agree, afaik all reviewers mentioned that the SE plus Phoenix is inferior to the Statement.

The question is if you are happy with the Statement in the long term.

 

Matt

Hi Matt,

I’d just say that there are plenty of simple and reasonably inexpensive upgrades that will elevate the Statement’s performance to way beyond what most people dream is even possible from both local and remote streamed audio. Take those in conjunction with the 2 most recent InnuOS SW upgrades and I can’t see anyone becoming dissatisfied with the Statement’s SQ for quite a long time. Bear in mind that a well set up Statement makes Radio Swiss Classic internet radio at 128kbps sound absolutely wonderful. The recordings, musicianship and musical selections are first rate and that together with the Statement’s streaming SQ make for a very compelling proposition that fulfils all the usual audiophile requirements of tonal accuracy, PRaT, and spacial resolution.  While lt lacks the ultimate power and frequency extension of higher resolution material, the thing it reminds me most of are my concert hall experiences. 

[Blackmorec]

On 5/23/2020 at 2:28 PM, matthias said:

 

BTW, did you compare wireless vs. FO, if yes what was the outcome?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

In my system my modem and router are on the ground floor on one side of a staircase and my hi-fi room is on the 1st floor on the other side of the stairs. As i was setting up my system, I had the opportunity to try a variety of different connection strategies, including 15m runs of low cost CAT5 and Synergistic Research Active SE CAT6 ethernet cable temporarily installed ‘bungee style’ over the stairwell, Internet over mains, various range extenders, various MESH systems and finally a wireless TPLink RE650 as Wi-Fi receiver. All links were fed into an AQVox SE switch via a short ethernet cable. Of all the strategies i tried the wi-fi TPLink RE650 sounded best, especially after modification to remove the onboard mains plug and SMPS and replace it with a DC2 then DC3 LPS. 

I could not try FO for this link due to difficulties routing the cable through several very sharp corners but in the meantime several members of this forum who’ve replaced ethernet with FO report significant improvements. At some point i will have someone pull a FO cable from my hi-fi room through the roof and down an external wall so i can upgrade to a full FO connection

[Blackmorec]

11 hours ago, matthias said:

 

I understand your POV.

After reading the complete Taiko thread and other threads on WBF and particularly the impressions of @romaz it is my most honest opinion that I would not buy the Statement. I found with @romaz an reviewer who has similar priorities regarding music playback like me, the same is true for Emile Bok from Taiko Audio. 

 

Further I listened to Innuos at several Munich HE shows from the beginning and never liked the sonic signature, this includes the Statement.

 

But YMMV, this is OK

 

Matt

If I based my hi-if decisions on what I hear every year at Munich I’d be driving a 911 cabrio or sailing a nice little yacht instead of listening to hi-fi.  I mean that with no disrespect but Munich is a very difficult environment in which to get good sound from any hi-fi system. With overloaded mains demands, unfurnished rooms, and so many mobile phones, Bluetooth and wireless devices the air is literally cream-of-EMI soup. Then you’ve also got time needed for systems to settle in before sounding their best. 

I have owned both an Innuos SE and Statement for the last 3 years and in that time I have been completely unable to detect a sonic signature other than clarity, purity, ultimate spacial resolution, massive PRaT and rhythmic drive and an uncanny resemblance to how listening to live music feels (exciting, absorbing, thrilling, emotional etc). Other than that, the sonics change completely with every single recording.  Some sound full, rich, warm, deep, sparkling and fully enveloping, others a bit drier or thinner but I’ve never managed to hear anything about the sound that carries to all recordings other than a propensity to sound amazing per the above. 

While I am sure an Extreme sounds incredible, when I read the reviews of Romaz and more recently Ray Dude, it could be me writing about the Statement......read some of my reviews and opinions and you’ll see the similarity and use of the self same adjectives.  Essentially what we’re all talking about is high class digital system implemented in an optimum environment. In my case I have found that the Statement responds incredibly positively to improvements in the upstream network (as does the Extreme btw) while any attempt to improve SQ downstream with things like USB reclockers have so far been judged as downgrades. 

I would one day like to hear what an Extreme can do in a well optimised system, but so far I’ve not read anything that I find diverges markedly from what I’m hearing with a Statement, which is worlds better than anything I’ve ever heard at a hi-fi show, because if I had heard that kind of sound quality I’d have bought the system (assuming it was even remotely affordable).  The one exception I would make is Avantgarde Audio who each year manage to produce a sound that is quite thrilling....nowhere near what a well set-up Trio + Tube system can produce but exceptionally good non the less (I actually did buy that system 😉). My point being that judging any hi-fi based on impressions from Audio Shows is fraught with issues and problems unrelated to the actual gear. What you actually hear at hi-fi shows is typically how gear sounds when implemented in truly sub-optimal environments.