Is now the right time for "Extreme Week"?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Allan F said:

reasonably priced

Isn't that term by definition extremely subjective?

[stuck limo]

18 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I don't disagree with you at all. I was able to purchase my Porsche used for just that reason...

 

An associate of ours got his fully loaded vehicle that was probably $35 - $40K  for $17K with barely any miles on it for that reason as well. 

[sdolezalek]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

We all have to process this in our own way. Like Chris, I view the time spent here on AS, and on the hobby as a whole, as a salve for the stresses we are all going through. If I can bring value, even joy, to someone with my writing, that is motivation enough.

 

I also want to highlight that @ray-dude is a long time AS participant. His journey, like mine and many of us here, started with modest gear, and he's tried to chronicle the path from those modest beginnings to the current "Extreme" state. To me, this is a far more engaging and inclusive style of review, because many of us, if not most, can identify with some stage of his journey. Even if we won't (or can't) go as far as he did, it connects us to his story far more than a conventional review that just talked about the Extreme vs. other high-dollar servers.

 

This is also the reason why I didn't feel that twinge of "guilt" reading it, because I could see that his gains were hard won, and he had an exquisite appreciation for what he was gaining with his purchase. Had he taken an "entitled" tone, I think I would have found it jarring, particularly in these times.

 Rajiv:  The thoughtfulness, detail and lack of seeming bias you give to your reviews most certainly bring value and joy.  Between your work, that of @raydude, @mitchco and of course Chris himself, there is no question that AS has raised the bar on reviews.  

 

More importantly though, what has come through loud and clear to me, in both your response and @raydude's response to my question, is the journey, the "hard won gains," the "exquisite appreciation" and ultimately the human being behind that work.  I feel absolutely no guilt in continuing to strive for excellence in the middle of this crisis, and so I can also feel very comfortable appreciating that journey in other people's work.  In that regard, this thread has been far more rewarding than I expected, because it has revealed the strength of character in the folks that Chris has chosen to work closely with.

 

By PM, I may take you up on the offer to delight me in recommending a change in my own system (which has been its own 20+ year journey) .  Thanks!

[Allan F]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Isn't that term by definition extremely subjective?

 

To a certain, but not extreme degree it is. It may be relative or comparative. One has to view it in context. When we are talking about very expensive items that few people have the means to purchase, the term is inapplicable. Given both the very high price and the fact that capable music servers can be bought for a small fraction of the cost, there is absolutely no way that a $27,000 server can be described as "affordable". There are no doubt instances where the use of the term is debatable, but this is certainly not one of them.

[The Computer Audiophile]

21 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

To a certain, but not extreme degree it is. It may be relative or comparative. One has to view it in context. When we are talking about very expensive items that few people have the means to purchase, the term is inapplicable. Given both the very high price and the fact that capable music servers can be bought for a small fraction of the cost, there is absolutely no way that a $27,000 server can be described as "affordable". There are no doubt instances where the use of the term is debatable, but this is certainly not one of them.

I’d say affordable has no relation to what other products are available. 

[AudioDoctor]

32 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

To a certain, but not extreme degree it is. It may be relative or comparative. One has to view it in context. When we are talking about very expensive items that few people have the means to purchase, the term is inapplicable. Given both the very high price and the fact that capable music servers can be bought for a small fraction of the cost, there is absolutely no way that a $27,000 server can be described as "affordable". There are no doubt instances where the use of the term is debatable, but this is certainly not one of them.

 

How much over 20k is the Aurender W20se???

 

The Taiko isn’t the only one. 

 

edit: A quick google tells me 22K... So, is it less expensive or more affordable than the Taiko?

[AudioDoctor]

13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’d say affordable has no relation to what other products are available. 

 

Its only in relation to the size of my pocketbook.

[Allan F]

16 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’d say affordable has no relation to what other products are available. 

 

And I would respectfully say that is incorrect, e.g. most compact cars are affordable. A Ferrari is not.

[AudioDoctor]

Just now, Allan F said:

 

And I would respectfully say that you are incorrect, e.g. Most compact cars are affordable. A Ferrari is not.

 

And I'd say that to Elon Musk the entry level Ferrari is a bargain!

[Allan F]

16 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

And I'd say that to Elon Musk the entry level Ferrari is a bargain!

 

It may be a bargain to Elon Musk, but it is not "affordable". There is a difference between what a particular individual can "afford" and the word "affordable". The former is specific, whereas the latter implies a general application.

 

Re the question of whether an Aurender W20se is "more affordable" than a Taiko Extreme, I would suggest that the more appropriate term would be "less expensive". However, I will concede that in that particular context, "more affordable" might be acceptable, but "affordable" would not be. Of course, that runs contrary to Chris' view that the term has "no relation to what other products are available".

[AudioDoctor]

2 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

It may be a bargain to Elon Musk, but it is not "affordable". There is a difference between what a particular individual can "afford" and the word "affordable". The former is specific, whereas the latter implies a general application.

 

ok... Once again, I don't want to argue so I'll let you have this one. I disagree, but that's okay I guess.

[Allan F]

13 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

ok... Once again, I don't want to argue so I'll let you have this one. I disagree, but that's okay I guess.

 

We can agree to disagree. Regardless, I believe that this horse has been flogged to death.

[The Computer Audiophile]

21 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

And I would respectfully say that is incorrect, e.g. most compact cars are affordable. A Ferrari is not.

The Ferrari is unaffordable for most people even if it’s the only car available. 
 

Affordability has zero relation to other products.

[The Computer Audiophile]

[Allan F]

: able to be afforded: having a cost that is not too high.

// products sold at affordable prices

 

Both of which I suggest imply relative to other products or services of the same genre. But I agree that it doesn't necessarily have to be so. As in the case of a Ferrari, there are products that are so expensive as to be both objectively (not subjectively) and independently not "affordable".

 

 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

I view the time spent here on AS, and on the hobby as a whole, as a salve for the stresses we are all going through. If I can bring value, even joy, to someone with my writing, that is motivation enough.

 

Well said.

 

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

I also want to highlight that @ray-dude is a long time AS participant. His journey, like mine and many of us here, started with modest gear, and he's tried to chronicle the path from those modest beginnings to the current "Extreme" state. To me, this is a far more engaging and inclusive style of review, because many of us, if not most, can identify with some stage of his journey. Even if we won't (or can't) go as far as he did, it connects us to his story far more than a conventional review that just talked about the Extreme vs. other high-dollar servers.

 

This is also the reason why I didn't feel that twinge of "guilt" reading it, because I could see that his gains were hard won, and he had an exquisite appreciation for what he was gaining with his purchase. Had he taken an "entitled" tone, I think I would have found it jarring, particularly in these times.

 

I think we all need to be very sensitive to the plight of others and part of that means not taking an entitled tone. Part of it also means doing something that helps, if and as we can.

 

Many of us are profoundly lucky to be in a situation where we can indulge in such hobbies let alone "extreme" hobbies that, in this particular case, are "extremely" expensive. That said I am not sure that assuaging guilt follows because gains were hard won, or there was an exquisite appreciation for what was gained. It is still extremely expensive in absolute terms and to someone far less fortunate, the distinction may be moot.

 

The higher moral question remains is it justifiable to spend such amounts of money in these difficult times and on what a great many would consider a frivolous pursuit.

 

Everyone has to wrestle with that question. I would argue that provided it is done sensitively guilt should not apply. There are other worthwhile joys to be had and redeeming features that have been expressed by others. I support the high-end reviews at AS and do not consider them a "guilty" pleasure. I respect others' who hold different views.

 

 

[robocop]

Now certainly is the right time for this new experience. I am transfixed by this review of something that will have a trickle down effect.

 

The detail is way more than one could ever hope for.

 

Affordability is not the point never was.

 

But in the interests of new audio technology its exciting for our hobby. This is what is capable!!! Little is happening in the Dac development area currently but the Source has always been rated as the most critical part of any system. Rubbish in rubbish out.

 

This is one of the most interesting reviews I have read and probably a first for this level of development and cost. 

 

Keep this up Chris.

 

Robert

 

 

[Teresa]

14 hours ago, Blake said:

...In our Audiophile world, $300 headphones are considered "basic" and nobody here would flinch at that price.  Yet, to 99% of the population (including those of higher income levels) $300 for headphones would likely be viewed as extravagant...

 

I consider $300 headphones to be extravagant and I certainly flinch at that price, so I guess I'm part of that 99% you mentioned. The most I have ever spent on new headphones is $150. I got my current Sennheiser HD 518 headphones for less than $100 when they are on sale at Amazon. I also consider any component priced over $1000 extravagant.

 

I know there are lots of rich people on this forum but there are a few of us poor audiophiles with limited income too. Just saying. 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

2 hours ago, Teresa said:

 

I consider $300 headphones to be extravagant and I certainly flinch at that price, so I guess I'm part of that 99% you mentioned. The most I have ever spent on new headphones is $150. I got my current Sennheiser HD 518 headphones for less than $100 when they are on sale at Amazon. I also consider any component priced over $1000 extravagant.

 

I know there are lots of rich people on this forum but there are a few of us poor audiophiles with limited income too. Just saying. 

Hi Teresa,

spending more than $20 on headphones to some people may be extravagant, meaning that your headphones are extravagant to those people.

 

My view is that money alone should not be the sole criterion of what's best quality.Money is an indicator of affordability which will vary with the individual.

 

However, IME a $10 million house IS generally better than a $200,000 house. Now, I cannot afford the expensive house, but I would not a) begrudge anyone who can and b) deny the superiority of the more expensive house

 

Moral judgements aside and policing of what is extravagant, price should not come into assessments of quality. There is a correlation between price and quality but it is not 100% and you don't always get what you pay for, nonetheless the correlation exists.

 

David

[Solstice380]

9 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

We can agree to disagree. Regardless, I believe that this horse has been flogged to death.

 

It is the proverbial one that was already dead!  Relativity, man, it’s all relativity. 😎

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

1 minute ago, Solstice380 said:

Relativity, man, it’s all relativity. 😎

 

that's what Einstein said, except he prefaced it with "Dude" !

[Solstice380]

8 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

that's what Einstein said, except he prefaced it with "Dude" !

 

Man, bro, dude, I can’t keep up!  I wonder... I am just behind time? 😜

[Summit]

Of course the price can be (seen as) extreme, but don’t forget the extreme dedication and effort that is needed to actually evaluate and make a review that has to be split in to not 2 or 3 but 5 part.    

 

One thing is for sure the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme is.... extreme.

[daverich4]

12 hours ago, Allan F said:

Given both the very high price and the fact that capable music servers can be bought for a small fraction of the cost, there is absolutely no way that a $27,000 server can be described as "affordable". 

When you compare it’s price to less expensive products that are available you are talking about value, not affordability. 

[Allan F]

1 hour ago, daverich4 said:

When you compare it’s price to less expensive products that are available you are talking about value, not affordability. 

 

Value refers to worth of relative worth. But price determines whether something is affordable. Its worth has nothing to do with its affordability.