HQPlayer Pops & Ticks

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys, I'm using HQP and a Windows based NAA to send DSD512 to a DAC with a JLSounds USB interface. I'm getting pops and ticks about once per minute. I'm trying to figure out what's causing the issue and can't figure it out. 

 

Facts:

I used this identical setup for DSD512 with the Auralic Altair G1, without issues. 

I can input DSD512 into this DAC's USB input from an Auralic Aries and Roon doing the upsampling. 

I've tried different buffer settings in the Thesycon Windows driver and I've adjusted the HQP buffer time. 

The pops and tick are only at DSD512, not DSD256 and below.

 

Question:

Any ideas what's causing the pops and ticks?

 

[Account Closed]

Hi Chris, This type of behavior at DSD 512 has usually been a buffer issue for me. I will say that DSD 512 has always been problematic with HQP/NAA/Network combo. I have noticed that with HQP and DSD 512 the choice of filter can also cause problems. HQP is more resource use intensive than other upsampling/modulation engines I have tried. I had the same thing happen where Roon would do 512 on my machine (i5 8400) but HQP would have similar problems. It might just be that the CPU on your machine is struggling to keep up. There could also be a driver issue. If you can, try a Linux based NAA to see.

 

Try a few of the 2s filters and one of the less intensive modulators and see if that helps. I will say that on my DAC (Spring 2) DSD 256 EC sounds better than 512 non-EC (when I could get 512 to work). At 512 it takes a lot of CPU power to modulate and this puts a lot of stress on the motherboard resources as well. I just use 2s filters with the ASDM7EC modulator at DSD 256 and call it a day.

 

It sounds like it is time for a new HQP computer if you really want to experiment with the higher DSD rates like 512 and 1024. There are multiple conversations about this on various threads. I know I have mentioned this before but 256 is the max doable with currently available hardware using EC modulators. It would take a CPU capable of 8Ghz clock continuous on at least two cores to do 512 with EC modulators.

 

If you want to see what lengths some will go to, check out Tim's water cooled build on the Kitsune Audio site.

 

Good Luck,

 

Bob 

[ericuco]

How old is your JLSounds card? Mine is from late 2015 and did not support 512 although it would play but lots of pops an I’d clicks.

 

I know the latest version supports 512, no idea when it was released though.

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, ericuco said:

How old is your JLSounds card? Mine is from late 2015 and did not support 512 although it would play but lots of pops an I’d clicks.

 

I know the latest version supports 512, no idea when it was released though.

Very new card. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, bobflood said:

 

It sounds like it is time for a new HQP computer if you really want to experiment with the higher DSD rates like 512 and 1024.

Trust me, I’m brewing something up :~)

[Account Closed]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Trust me, I’m brewing something up :~)

I figured that you would be doing that soon with all this sudden interest in NAA devices. If you are going to want to do some of the high intensity filters then pay close attention to the video card part as most if not all CPUs will will choke with high modulation rates and non-2s filters running at the same time. Especially the high tap filters like sinc M and closed form M and similar filters.

[Norton]

Different setup entirely,  but I got ticks every minute or so from my Opp205 with DSD512 if I’d been using with another format beforehand.  Really was a case of simply turning  DAC off and on again before using with DSD512 to clear the problem.  I can’t imagine you’ve  been using the particular other format (“el códec del diablo“) though....

[The Computer Audiophile]

The strange thing with my situation is that 512 worked perfect with the Altair G1. New DAC and it isn’t working. But, it works with the Linux based Aries going USB out to the new DAC. 

[ericuco]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but did you install the latest drivers from JLSounds? Linux and Mac do not require drivers but Windows does according to their website.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, ericuco said:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but did you install the latest drivers from JLSounds? Linux and Mac do not require drivers but Windows does according to their website.

Shoot me now. I was on the previous version. downloading new one now. Fingers crossed.

[The Computer Audiophile]

@ericuco I'm two tracks in at DSD512 / 24.5 MHz and it's flawless. 

 

I shall now give up my title as The Computer Audiophile :~|

[Account Closed]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

@ericuco I'm two tracks in at DSD512 / 24.5 MHz and it's flawless. 

 

I shall now give up my title as The Computer Audiophile :~|

And even the mighty occasionally stumble.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, bobflood said:

And even the mighty occasionally stumble.

Been a looooooooooooong week. :~)

 

Thanks guys for helping. Have a great weekend. 

[Miska]

As usual, "if it's not broken, don't fix it", but some rough guidance...

 

When using ASIO (directly or through NAA), leave "Buffer time" in HQPlayer to "Default". From ASIO driver's control panel (usually found from Windows System Tray), set buffer size to largest possible and with Thesycon driver "safest" setting. This helps reducing drop-outs and also gives lowest possible interrupt frequency from the hardware.

 

[jamesg11]

21 hours ago, Miska said:

As usual, "if it's not broken, don't fix it", but some rough guidance...

 

When using ASIO (directly or through NAA), leave "Buffer time" in HQPlayer to "Default". From ASIO driver's control panel (usually found from Windows System Tray), set buffer size to largest possible and with Thesycon driver "safest" setting. This helps reducing drop-outs and also gives lowest possible interrupt frequency from the hardware.

 

Is there “buffer size” advice re macmini 2012 & NAA?

[Miska]

36 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

Is there “buffer size” advice re macmini 2012 & NAA?

 

With NAA it depends on what the NAA is running on. But in most cases "Default" is the best.

 

[kelvinwsy]

Happy as csn be!😬😁

On my 6700k Grey out Multicore DSP and cdn play ADSM7EC on polysinc xtr-mp-2!

Stutters when i try no -2s😅

Still Great SQ

THX for this forum contributions

[kelvinwsy]

Still a bit of pause once in a while on xtp-2s

On hb2 plain sailing

[Miska]

Sounds like a nice Nvidia GPU would help you there by moving filters out from the CPU...

 

[kelvinwsy]

Thx Jussi 

Looking for a 2080 Super for 650-700 USD should do the trick.

I am a bit shocked that the 9900k /not the KS is only marginally better than the 6700k for the EC modulators.

I have an offer for 2300 USD for a pre-order 10900k (2 months to put together as COVID 19 shutdown is still hitting the supply ) with a ASROC Z490 Taichi MB. and Zotac 2070Super with 16 gb ADATA 3600 ghz RAM and a 360mm closed loop water cooling system

It is at this price as I have stripped out the SSD, HDD, OS, headless unit/// I will cannabilze the parts from my 6700k server.

Worrisome is the 230 watts heat output at 5.3 ghz pre-boost operations level. Needs 6 fans to cool the case the whole shebang(Even with a humongous twin fan 360mm Coolmaster Closed loop cooling system!)

This beast has to have lots of power treatment, remote siting, for it to sound good. NAA is a must . No USB direct connection will sound good from what I think?

No way I can use any audiophile Linear PSU looking at 20AMP steady current at least just for the CPU- Peak Current on spinning up for HQ upsampling may be 25 -30 amps!

The 2070 Super will probably take 215-220watts at 12 v - this is another 20plus amp on boot up 

Any comments from anyone?

Thx

Kelvin

[Miska]

1 hour ago, kelvinwsy said:

I am a bit shocked that the 9900k /not the KS is only marginally better than the 6700k for the EC modulators.

 

The per-core speed has not changed so much and they have similar clock speeds. What the new models have gained is more CPU cores, first i7-8086K increased it to 6 and then i9-9900K increased it to 8. While keeping pretty much the same clock speeds and TDP. So it is notable improvement and makes it easier to run heavier filters at the same time with modulators since filter loads can nicely spread over multiple cores. For modulators alone it has not changed much.

 

1 hour ago, kelvinwsy said:

Looking for a 2080 Super for 650-700 USD should do the trick.

 

Yes, that should help a lot.

 

1 hour ago, kelvinwsy said:

I have an offer for 2300 USD for a pre-order 10900k (2 months to put together as COVID 19 shutdown is still hitting the supply ) with a ASROC Z490 Taichi MB. and Zotac 2070Super with 16 gb ADATA 3600 ghz RAM and a 360mm closed loop water cooling system

It is at this price as I have stripped out the SSD, HDD, OS, headless unit/// I will cannabilze the parts from my 6700k server.

Worrisome is the 230 watts heat output at 5.3 ghz pre-boost operations level. Needs 6 fans to cool the case the whole shebang(Even with a humongous twin fan 360mm Coolmaster Closed loop cooling system!)

This beast has to have lots of power treatment, remote siting, for it to sound good. NAA is a must . No USB direct connection will sound good from what I think?

 

For example my Gigabyte Z390 Designare with i9-9900KS and the RTX2080Ti sound just fine from the DAC-UP ports. Using 1000W Seasonic PSU. But as always depends on the DAC and overall system. More reason for using NAA could be to locate the server outside of listening space due to acoustic noise from the cooling system. But it may be relatively quiet still.

 

Now for example this board features DAC-UP ports and look interesting:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z490-VISION-D-rev-1x#kf

 

[kelvinwsy]

Further experimentation shows :
1. DSD256 ASDMEC7 xrt-mp-2 will run smoothly. 

2. After I switched the AC to 27deg C - just for testing, CPU fan spin at Full Speed, Throttling as CPU percent drops to less than 5% - Sound sputters, and jerky sound. 

3. Upgrading to a Noctua NH-DH12a should solve this heat throttling

4. Waiting for a 2070 Super to appear on the used market.

EC7 and DSD256 sounds so GREAT!

Kelvin

[kelvinwsy]

Forgot to add; the jump in performance before throttling hit was the removal of 2 banks of Elfidelity DRAM FILTERS and adding back 2x8 gb - so all 4 DIMM slots filled up with 2x16 and 2x8 gb. 

Runs smoothly DSD256 /EC 7 and xtr -2s on a lowly 6700k with a GTX970m 4 gb GPU.

Not to lame!!

I just found a Noctua NH-12a on local market. Installing it tomorrow. 
Will report back.

Kelvin

[Miska]

Means that with proper CPU cooling and new GPU it would likely run lot of filters together with EC modulators just fine.

 

[kelvinwsy]

Hi Jussi Noctua U-12a is awesome. Got it from Newegg. Stripped out the standard CPU cooler and installed the U-12a very smoothly. 

Testing on ASDMEC7 on polysinc xtr-mp-2s on both 1x and 2x plays but stutters

on mp-2s works on 1x and  non -2s on 2x upsampling!!!

Pressed the trigger and a Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC 8 Gb .. Triple Fan on the way👏👍

Will report back