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Multiple audio outputs in Windows 7


aps

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Is there a method of setting up Windows 7 to support multiple audio outputs? My set-up involves XXHighend feeding a Lynx L22 soundcard with the digital output sent to a DAC that feeds my pre-amp. The hope is to adapt the system so that I can also run a set of outdoor, patio, speakers. My pre-amp only has, unfortunately, a single set of outputs so I thought that I'd use the Lynx L22 soundcard's analogue output but haven't been able to have this in use at the same time as the digital output. Is there a Windows 7 or Media Player (J River?) that would allow for multiple audio outputs?

 

Regards

APS

 

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Hi there,

 

No, I don't think multiple outputs are ever possible. I must say though that this *is* possible but it will be a customized play between software and hardware (which XXHighEnd indeed does, but not for your Lynx).

 

But why not use a simple Y-connector at the output of your pre-amp ? (assuming a separate main amp (or active speakers) for the patio). That will work ...

 

Regards,

Peter

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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If I recall correctly, J.River Media Center can output to multiple soundcards.

 

Eloise

 

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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> No, I don't think multiple outputs are ever possible.

 

Windows has supported multiple audio output devices since the Windows 3.1 days of the early 1990s.

 

ASIO also supports multiple audio output devices.

 

In both cases, the APIs provide calls for enumerating the devices that are present and for specifying which device will be used for an output stream.

 

> I must say though that this *is* possible but it will be a

> customized play between software and hardware

> (which XXHighEnd indeed does, but not for your Lynx).

 

Nothing exotic required. All you have to do is to specify something other than the default device in the calls to the audio output interface.

 

I use multiple devices from J. River Media Center all the time. On one PC, JRMC is using ASIO for output to 2 PCI soundcards and DirectSound to a USB device. JRMC can output different audio streams or the same one to 2 or 3 devices at the same time.

 

Bill

 

 

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Maybe there's a misunderstanding on my side ...

 

Of course it doesn't require any exotic etc. stuff, but it *does* require the multiple selection. Now Bill, you can easily tell about some program playing ASIO and DSound at the same time, but this is rubbish of course (ok, so to speak). I mean, how many mixers do you want in the chain ?

 

But ok, with exclusive streams it works too, but it will be a dedicated solution for something (like XX does just that). But, for good sound it will need two souncards at least, or otherwise the devices per channel group or something.

 

So, the misunderstanding on my side may be about any normal player just won't provide the selection (can e.g. Foobar do that ? I don't think so).

Windows of course can do it, or otherwise I wouldn't be doing it myself. Indeed nothing fancy, but including official selections and exclusive streams ? I will stay out of that for a while. This certainly includes playing two complete different streams (like WASAPI and KS), which technically would be possible again, but which also is nothing to hunt for (ok, at wanting some "SQ").

Btw, earlier I was talking about multiple outputs to the *same* soundcard / sound device. This sure doesn't go "automatically".

 

And honestly, I didn't know JR could do what is actually wanted here.

 

Peter

 

PS: Of course what Miska says is the most normal solution, but indeed it would need something like a Pro front-end (like the FF800 I use myself -> 1 input and 52 or so outputs ? haha)

 

PPS: APS, maybe your Lynx can do it herself ? (if it has two digital-outs to begin with)

 

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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> Maybe there's a misunderstanding on my side ...

 

I was quite clear on the existence of Windows and ASIO APIs for enumerating devices and for specifying the output device. Are you aware of those capabilities?

 

I worked for years writing real-time software, device drivers and other kernel-level software. I've used some of those Windows audio output APIs in software I wrote. In my post, I wrote about what I knew to be true.

 

> Of course it doesn't require any exotic etc. stuff, but it *does*

> require the multiple selection.

 

Allowing the user to select something other than the default output device is not hard to do. Enumerating devices doesn't require many lines of software. Providing a UI element for selecting the output device isn't a big deal either.

 

> Now Bill, you can easily tell about some program playing ASIO

> and DSound at the same time,

> but this is rubbish of course (ok, so to speak).

 

Claiming that something is rubbish just because you don't understand how it works or don't see the value of it makes you look ignorant.

 

I used JRMC as an example of software providing multiple output streams. I wrote about my own experience using that program every day. I knew what I was talking about.

 

> I mean, how many mixers do you want in the chain ?

 

The number of mixers in each stream's path (chain) will be the same as for an equivalent single stream implementation.

 

Most reasonable implementations of a music player program separate the the audio playback loop from the user interface. In a single stream player, there will be one playback thread or process which is separate from the UI thread. (Some players might use more than one thread for the playback loop.) A player that can output multiple streams will have at least one playback thread or a process for each stream. Each thread will operate independently and all will be run independently of the UI thread.

 

> So, the misunderstanding on my side may be about any normal player

> just won't provide the selection (can e.g. Foobar do that ?

> I don't think so).

 

Playback to multiple streams takes some work to implement and adds a bit of complication to the user interface. It is a feature that some players don't provide.

 

The last time I looked at iTunes, it provided a partial implementation of multiple output devices. The UI allowed me to chose the default audio device or an Airport Express device for a single output stream. The Airport Express device isn't a Windows audio device but the mechanism for allowing the user to pick an output device is the same as for picking one of the available Windows audio devices.

 

As I recall, Foobar allows you to select an output interface (for example, DirectSound, ASIO or WASAPI exclusive mode.) I don't remember whether Foobar allows for multiple output streams.

 

In JRMC, the capability for multiple output streams is fully developed. If you don't need it, it doesn't get in your way.

 

Software writers get to choose the feature set they provide. Some provide multiple output interface choices, some provide for multiple streams.

 

> This certainly includes playing two complete different streams

> (like WASAPI and KS), which technically would be possible again,

 

I think that you are confusing a capability for multiple output streams with a capability for using different output interfaces.

 

On my dedicated MusicPC, I specify ASIO for 2 PCI cards that have well written ASIO drivers. I specify Direct Sound for a USB device on that same computer that does not have a real ASIO driver. I chose the output interface to suit each device. I can play music to any combination of those devices when I want to.

 

On my personal PC, I use kernel streaming for JRMC audio output to one device (RealTek onboard sound) and DirectSound for a USB device for which Kernel Streaming doesn't work. This combination of interfaces works too.

 

JRMC lets me define output zones and specify the device and the interface to be used for each zone. Each zone has its own queue of music to be played (in the Playing Now view).

 

> but which also is nothing to hunt for (ok, at wanting some "SQ").

 

If you want to play music in more than one room, then a player that can output more than one (independent) stream is very handy.

 

If you want to play music on the version of Windows you own using any audio device that works with Windows, then having a choice of the audio output interface can be very useful.

 

Bill

 

 

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Wow Bill, so much time spent on someone who said he was sorry in the first place. The only thing you could add maybe is whatever a "default device" has to do with this all. This is sure what I don't get. But you know, there's so much to learn.

 

Ah, one more thing if I may ...

 

Claiming that something is rubbish just because you don't understand how it works or don't see the value of it makes you look ignorant.

 

I *am* ignorant. Didn't you know ? Just wanted to emphasize it a bit.

More seriously, I am sorry (again) if I disturbed you and others by hunting for good sound quality which at least you don't seem to get. But that's allright.

 

Peace,

Peter

 

 

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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Presuming that I understand what you want to do, ie same music to different places:

 

I have used MediaMonkey and Remote Speaker Output addon(RSO) with success.

 

This allows me to send MediaMonkey selection to one or many Airport Expressii (similar to Itunes functionality described above).

 

At the Airport express end one could plug into an inexpensive amp (ie from Rat Shack) -> outdoor speakers (adequate for the patio).

 

MediaMonkey free

RSO - $20 I think

Airport Express $100 each

Amp and speakers - ?$

 

An ipod, iphone (and I presume an ipad) can control the playlist

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

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> Wow Bill, so much time spent on someone who said he was sorry

> in the first place.

 

You started your second post

 

"Maybe there's a misunderstanding on my side ...".

 

Then you went on to add more mis-information rather than admitting that you were wrong in your first post. In my second post, I corrected the mis-information in your second post.

 

You don't need to provide an apology. You just need to stop spreading mis-information.

 

> The only thing you could add maybe is whatever a

> "default device" has to do with this all.

 

> This is sure what I don't get.

 

I've explained the idea of a default device and enumeration twice now.

 

> More seriously, I am sorry (again) if I disturbed you and

> others by hunting for good sound quality which at least

> you don't seem to get. But that's allright.

 

Standard audiophile rhetoric. When you get called for spouting BS, accuse the other person of being against a search for better sound quality.

 

Go right on hunting for improved sound quality. Just don't post a bunch of wrong information that misleads the reader.

 

Bill

 

 

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I've explained the idea of a default device and enumeration twice now.

 

You explained nothing, but TOLD. And it doesn't make one bit of sense. You are just telling the obvious and nothing whatsoever is related anywhere to something like a default device. If there is somewhere (a player), it is a twirk or just some additional functionality hooked to the default device. Fine. But don't tell me Windows is treating that special or anything.

 

Might you try to tell me that I should "enumerate devices" in order to get more devices to choose from except from the default device which Windows provides me with and let me use when I do "nothing", you talk way out of context and aparently don't know what I'm doing in the first place. So better investigate that first instead of shouting stuff around which nobody will understand (but I do, no probem).

 

In my second post, I corrected the mis-information in your second post.

 

Yea, which starts with

 

I was quite clear on the existence of Windows and ASIO APIs for enumerating devices and for specifying the output device. Are you aware of those capabilities?

 

and which is your main mistake. Don't make me laugh ...

 

Your mistake is that you assume from the start that "I don't know" etc. and continue with that forever. You might have taken into account the player the OP talked about, and which is what I (obviously) responded to. I also read his question, which you forgot. You may also have taken into account that the OP knows about XXHighEnd of which you apparently know nothing (and don't want to, I'm sure). But you did not take that into account.

 

All isn't even one bit related to setting up Windows such that more devices will output at the same time. It can't and it won't. A player can theoretically though, and while XX doesn't allow you to choose those devices, internally it does anyway. JR allows the choices as well and if you may say that this works because Windows does it, it is you who is spreading misinformation. In Windows you denote a default device and that's it. A player may use that because it can't enumerate the others, or it may offer the other available devices because it can. Windows is only involved in the enumeration itself, but will not allow to choose the playback device unless via the default device and a player using that. Let alone that it would offer the simultanuous selection of more devices.

(So read back. With less words I said exactly the same.)

Btw, I'm quite sure you know all this, but put it differently or something.

 

But there was also this from my side :

 

No, I don't think multiple outputs are ever possible. I must say though that this *is* possible but it will be a customized play between software and hardware (which XXHighEnd indeed does, but not for your Lynx).

 

And *this* is the mistake I made, were it for general readers and (your) understanding. Remember, we are still talking about XXHighEnd here and if you knew only a little of the background you'd know that there is no option in multiple streams while one stream will be tedious (for me). But you do not know that background, and instead started telling me that I'm only capable of audiophile's rhetoric. Thank you very much for that, but blame yourself for BS this time, ok ? For the context that is, not for the merits (I'm quite fine with that, apart from the default device story).

 

Peter

 

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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> Might you try to tell me that I should "enumerate devices" in order

> to get more devices to choose from except from the default device

> which Windows provides me with and let me use when I do "nothing",

> you talk way out of context and aparently don't know what I'm

> doing in the first place.

 

Nothing I said was about what you do in your software. The OP asked

 

"Is there a method of setting up Windows 7 to support multiple audio outputs? ... Is there a Windows 7 or Media Player (J River?) that would allow for multiple audio outputs?"

 

I explained that Windows did provide that capability and provided details. I also provided J. River Media Center as an example of a player that could send separate audio streams to multiple audio devices.

 

You seem to be saying that XXHighEnd does not have such a capability.

 

I think the OP questions have been answered.

 

Bill

 

 

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I'm glad Bill is here to protect us from Peter's misinformation campaign, and to declare when the OP's question has been answered, oh and to set the software engineer of the OP's music player of choice straight on what's what.

 

If you've got a good solution for the OP's question, offer it. Peter's offered one solution and several ideas and all you've done is launch yet another "audiophile" diatribe about the "truth" of some hyper nitpicking technical interpretation, which even if correct is practically useless.

 

If APS is using XXHiighEnd already then he's aware of Peter's uncompromising quest for SQ and "gets" where he's coming from. Peter offers uncompromising, unflinching opinions about SQ because that is the stated purpose of XX and that is what the users of XX challenge him to do.

 

We can opt in, or opt out of Peter's absoluteist quest for SQ and he's invested one

career's worth of effort testing his ideas in a way for all to witness, learn, or see for themselves, even for free in a demo version if we like. Peter has opinions that might be wrong, but he has essentially "built" a player so we can put HIM to the test and see for ourselves. If we hear no difference, he would not argue we are wrong. If we hear a problem, he will try to fix it.

 

What more does someone need to put behind their opinions to deserve a bit of respect? I dare say Bill you certainly have not earned mine, yet.

 

 

 

AIIF (CA Ripping Guide) > Netgear ReadyNAS Duo > 1Gb Ethernet > MacBook Pro > Itunes > USB/Toslink > PS Audio DLink III > Peachtree Decco (refurb) > Frugal Horn Mk3 (DBPowerAmp from CD, HDTracks) > Netgear ReadyNAS Duo > 1Gb Ethernet > Dell Latitude D820 > Foobar > AISO4All > MusicStreamer II > MF V-Can > Sennheiser HD 650

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Since other softwares are being discussed I may add what HQPlayer allows and what it doesn't allow.

 

Recent versions allow multiple instances being used simultaneously as long as they use different audio devices, since it has always allowed use of non-default device. This can be done by creating different configuration files and specifying the configuration file as startup parameter (for example two configurations through two shortcut icons). It naturally also allows use of as many different room eq's as there are running instances.

 

It doesn't support sending same stream from single running instance to multiple output devices. This would be technically possible, but I have not implemented support for it. However, this kind of output can be easily achieved with most pro interfaces like I suggested.

 

Now I'm not sure which one was the preferred case, different streams to multiple places or same stream to multiple places? I first understood the latter.

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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