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Article: Review | Innuos PhoenixUSB Reclocker

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On 5/16/2020 at 6:05 PM, kennyb123 said:


I made the mistake a few week ago of finally switching off Roon to hear just their internal player.  This did sound a bit better than Experimental mode.  

Hi @kennyb123 Agree 100%. iPeng is the best sounding out of all options. But usability is far below Roon. I'd be happy with a functioning Experimental Mode/Roon as the alternative.  

I used to use it much more for critical listening and your comment has me thinking I'm going to have to go back for another extended listen.


SYSTEM: Ghent JSSG360 Cat6a > EtherRegen/Farad Super 3 > Ghent JSSG360 Cat6a > Zenith MKII SE > Phasure Lush 2 > Innuos Phoenix > Phasure Lush 2 > PS Audio Directstream Sr DAC > Ayre K-5xe MP Preamplifier > Conrad Johnson MF-2500a > Vandersteen Quatro Woods

POWER: AQ (Niagara 5000/Tornado/Hurricane)/Audience AU24 SE LP/Triode Wire Labs/Shunyata (Python/Venom 3)/Nordost Blue Heaven/Audio Sensibilities Sig Silver DC 

CABLING: AQ (Earth/Go-4 Dbl Bi-Wire)

ISOLATION: IsoAcoustics/Herbie's/BDR/PS Audio Powerbase

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On 5/17/2020 at 8:32 AM, thyname said:


A “birdie” told me the other day that the new InnuOS 1.4.4. update will be out this Tuesday, 5/19. It is supposed to fix the Roon SqueezeLite experimental feature among other things

Thanks for the heads up @thyname 😀


SYSTEM: Ghent JSSG360 Cat6a > EtherRegen/Farad Super 3 > Ghent JSSG360 Cat6a > Zenith MKII SE > Phasure Lush 2 > Innuos Phoenix > Phasure Lush 2 > PS Audio Directstream Sr DAC > Ayre K-5xe MP Preamplifier > Conrad Johnson MF-2500a > Vandersteen Quatro Woods

POWER: AQ (Niagara 5000/Tornado/Hurricane)/Audience AU24 SE LP/Triode Wire Labs/Shunyata (Python/Venom 3)/Nordost Blue Heaven/Audio Sensibilities Sig Silver DC 

CABLING: AQ (Earth/Go-4 Dbl Bi-Wire)

ISOLATION: IsoAcoustics/Herbie's/BDR/PS Audio Powerbase

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Ragiv,
I already have a SOtM-USBultra connected between my Aurender W20 and my MSB Techology Select II DAC (using the Intona USB Ultimate cables).  I’m very curious - did you try listening to the two USB conditioners connected together; ie. source > SOtM-USBultra > Innuos-PhoenixUSB > DAC ?

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41 minutes ago, Quadiffusor HK said:

Ragiv,
I already have a SOtM-USBultra connected between my Aurender W20 and my MSB Techology Select II DAC (using the Intona USB Ultimate cables).  I’m very curious - did you try listening to the two USB conditioners connected together; ie. source > SOtM-USBultra > Innuos-PhoenixUSB > DAC ?

 

I did, with mixed results. There was a slight overall uptick in SQ using both devices in series, but not anything to write home about. It certainly makes no sense from a cost perspective.

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Thank you for your observations!  Guess it’s not quite the same as Ethernet switches being stacked in series, exhibiting incremental improvements.  Should I have the chance to home audition the Phoenix, I’ll keep that in mind.  

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On 5/14/2020 at 8:58 AM, trailblazers_song said:

Denafrips Giaa with a lot more options for digital input & output at 1/2 the price 

DC01B544-03DF-4ADC-9C94-B360741D2E38.jpeg

5E73126F-E7BE-4E0C-9CD5-EA93934D65E0.jpeg

Thanks for letting us know of another option ! How good is sounds or compares is another story, but it definitely accommodates more types of products. And Denafrips has a good reputation.  


Tarq

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On 5/14/2020 at 10:33 PM, austinpop said:

 

Unfortunately, no. That said, I've tried a plethora of devices over the years, both in terms of USB isolators/reclockers/regenerators, and associated power supplies. They include, in order of increasing sound quality and increasing cost:

  • Wyred 4 Sound Recovery
  • Intona Isolator
  • Intona Isolator + W4S Recovery
  • Uptone ISO-Regen
  • SOtM tX-USBultra
  • SOtM tX-USBultra reference clocked by MUTEC REF 10
  • SOtM tX-USBultra reference clocked by MUTEC REF 10 SE 120

Ditto for power supplies.

 

There's something for every budget, but raising SQ does cost more, sadly not necessarily linearly. Such is audio!

Well stated! There are power cords out there costing half as much as the Phoenix, which would raise sound quality, but would also start a fight! Thanks for keeping the review corralled. 


Tarq

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A good review.

Still, I question the premise of spending so much money on a USB recloker--especially if one is just embarking on the digit journey and the slate is clean.

Personality, I'd set an AES chain,. That format is likely to generate a cleaner signal for less money and greater simplicity.

Some will object to PMC, but one should do a thorough research whether the ear can detect anything above 192/24. There is little evidence to the contrary.



Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 2]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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1 hour ago, LowMidHigh said:

A good review.

Still, I question the premise of spending so much money on a USB recloker--especially if one is just embarking on the digit journey and the slate is clean.

Personality, I'd set an AES chain,. That format is likely to generate a cleaner signal for less money and greater simplicity.

Some will object to PMC, but one should do a thorough research whether the ear can detect anything above 192/24. There is little evidence to the contrary.

 

There are definitely devices on the market - even some expensive ones - where the AES is the best sounding input or output. 


Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>RPi4 (dietpi)>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)>Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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10 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

A good review.

Still, I question the premise of spending so much money on a USB recloker--especially if one is just embarking on the digit journey and the slate is clean.

Personality, I'd set an AES chain,. That format is likely to generate a cleaner signal for less money and greater simplicity.

Some will object to PMC, but one should do a thorough research whether the ear can detect anything above 192/24. There is little evidence to the contrary.

 

 

It all comes down to the extent to which you've experimented for yourself. On paper, there are pros and cons with both synchronous interfaces like S/PDIF and AES/EBU, and asynchronous interfaces like USB. This ends up being its own rabbit hole, and I don't want to go down it.

 

What I will say is that AES also benefits from reclocking and signal generation. I've experienced this with devices like the Mutec MC-3+, the SOtM dX-USB HD Ultra, and the Singxer SU-1, feeding several DACs.

 

There is no one right path, and each path has its optimization possibilities.

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4 hours ago, austinpop said:

What I will say is that AES also benefits from reclocking and signal generation. I've experienced this with devices like the Mutec MC-3+, the SOtM dX-USB HD Ultra, and the Singxer SU-1, feeding several DACs.

 

Rajiv:

There is already enough misunderstanding about clocking out there so please be careful not to conflate audio-rate clocking (as done in DACs and DDCs--anything handling/generating S/PDIF, AES/EBU, I2S, or TOSLINK) with chip clocking for packet-data interfaces (Ethernet, USB, all computer chip clocks, etc.).

So completely different! The influence of sample-rate clocking (be it word-clock or bit-clock) is very direct.  

The influence of chip clocks (for USB, Ethernet, etc.) is vastly less direct and the mechanisms by which such can influence performance are completely different. (Reference our 'white paper' on that subject.)

:D

 

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Rajiv:

There is already enough misunderstanding about clocking out there so please be careful not to conflate audio-rate clocking (as done in DACs and DDCs--anything handling/generating S/PDIF, AES/EBU, I2S, or TOSLINK) with chip clocking for packet-data interfaces (Ethernet, USB, all computer chip clocks, etc.).

So completely different! The influence of sample-rate clocking (be it word-clock or bit-clock) is very direct.  

The influence of chip clocks (for USB, Ethernet, etc.) is vastly less direct and the mechanisms by which such can influence performance are completely different. (Reference our 'white paper' on that subject.)

:D

 


Spot on Alex! 99% of people confuse this all the time.

 

Now... how did I come up with that percentage? I completely made it up 🤪

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Rajiv:

There is already enough misunderstanding about clocking out there so please be careful not to conflate audio-rate clocking (as done in DACs and DDCs--anything handling/generating S/PDIF, AES/EBU, I2S, or TOSLINK) with chip clocking for packet-data interfaces (Ethernet, USB, all computer chip clocks, etc.).

So completely different! The influence of sample-rate clocking (be it word-clock or bit-clock) is very direct.  

The influence of chip clocks (for USB, Ethernet, etc.) is vastly less direct and the mechanisms by which such can influence performance are completely different. (Reference our 'white paper' on that subject.)

:D

 


Alex,

 

Good point. I merely wanted to point out out that every input type has an optimization path.

 

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Like some I never have an opinion on said component without a demonstration of course , first at the dealer then listening to it in my own system. Well it turns out this all in one box USB regenerator / power supplies and data clock proved its worth the salt , I bought a Innuos Zenith server including the Innuos Phoenix the same day I borrowed it from the dealer.

Call me what you will ,...🥱

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14 hours ago, Hiker said:

Like some I never have an opinion on said component without a demonstration of course , first at the dealer then listening to it in my own system. Well it turns out this all in one box USB regenerator / power supplies and data clock proved its worth the salt , I bought a Innuos Zenith server including the Innuos Phoenix the same day I borrowed it from the dealer.

Call me what you will ,...🥱

 

Congrats on the purchases Hiker!

 

Did you try the Zenith with an without the Phoenix during your demo?

If so what improvements did the Phoenix bring?

 

I've got a Phoenix on order which, fingers crossed, should be arriving at the end of the week!

 

 


Innuos Zenith MK2, Innuos Phoenix USB re-clocker, KEF LS50 active speakers

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2 hours ago, Tait said:

 

Congrats on the purchases Hiker!

 

Did you try the Zenith with an without the Phoenix during your demo?

If so what improvements did the Phoenix bring?

 

I've got a Phoenix on order which, fingers crossed, should be arriving at the end of the week!

 

Did I listen to the Zenith with the Phoenix and without of course. The dealer ripped a couple of my own CDs and as good as the Innuos Zenith mk3 is my scepticism of the Phoenix just being a over priced USB regenerator immediately vanished.

 

The dealer would only lend me the Phoenix and Zenith on their day off with a strict promise to return them the following day however it didn’t take long to realize I had to own them , like 15 minutes,....Tait there’s nothing I could add that already been said , I’m extremely happy with Innuos .

 

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Not to take away a single thing from AustinPops hard work and great review of the Phoenix a online reviewer John Darko explains exactly what the Phoenix is in detail , the data clock , power supplies and what have you which initially got my interest. Also I’m not so hung up wanting to use l2s any longer.

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Question for you! I have a 3R on the way for my Lampizator GG2, many owners are suggesting an improvement despite the price difference! So if the re-clockers are doing their job properly does it matter what streamer / source you are using? My suspicion was that the reclocker should be replacing the existing signal, and if not what is it not doing? Thanks! 

 

 

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I'm a real newbie here and have a similar question to TimF.  I've got an older Lampizator Golden Gate DAC.  The spec sheet says it has an Amanero USB with two superclocks (22M, 24M -- ???).

 

I just purchased an Innuos Zenith Mk3.  Would there be any advantage to adding the Innuos Phoenix into the chain or does the GG's superclocks already handle that role?  I know the Phoenix has some other functionality aside from the re-clocking, but is there a potential compatibility issue between the Phoenix and the GG with competing clocks?  

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I'm just getting into this myself. However, I believe you're referring to the internal word clock(s) of your DAC which times the samples into the D/A chip. The Phoenix times the packets of data from your USB source to the USB receiver of your DAC. So, no matter how good the clocks are in your Lampizator, this is working separately and prior to your DACs decoding. 

 

Currently I'm using an IsoRegen > tx-USBultra SE to handle reclocking/regeneration/isolation, but I have a Phoenix touching down in a few days. So far I've noticed a vast improvement minding the USB data transfer. I was just about upgrade the power supplies to the IR+txUSB when I thought I might be better served by consolidating into the Phoenix with its built in Sean Jacobs PS. 

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Looking forward to hearing your views! 
Cheers. Jorge


AMP: Electrocompaniet ECI-6D; DAC: Oppo 205 (modded); ECI-6D

Streamer/endpoint: Zen MKIII/ultraRendu; Speakers: Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature; Cables: Speakers (Acoustic Revive) + RCA (au24sx) + RJ45 (Vodka Audioquest) + USB (Diamond Audioquest) + Power (Pangea's + Actinote's) + iR&oM (Neotech 16AWG OCC Silver + DC 4); Filters/reclockers: Jensen VRD- iFF + Pink Faun Isolator + Acoustic Revive RGC-24 + HMS “The Perfect Match” + isoRegen; Switch: etherRegen + opticalModule; Cisco 2960; LPS: Sboosters MKI & MKII (+ ultra) + HDplex 200 + LPS 1.2

 

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Fascinating read of this thread...
Not sure what I would like to do. Innuos Phoenix or Denafrips Gaia?
The Phoenix would be connected via USB to my Zenith MKIII then to a D90 MQA DAC.
If I chose the Denafrips Gaia the connection would still be USB Zenith III to Gaia but from Gaia it would be I2s to the D90 MQA DAC.
Any thoughts anyone?


Amplifier: Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated 

Digital: Innuos Zenith MK3 > Topping D90 MQA, Pioneer PD-S904

Analogue: Rega Planar 2 > Rega Fono MM MK3, Pioneer CT-W806DR 

Cables: Phasure Lush ^2, AQ Coffee, AQ Ruby, Cable Talk 2, QED Silver Anniversary

Speakers: Klipsch Forte III

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4 hours ago, ConcreteCow said:

Fascinating read of this thread...
Not sure what I would like to do. Innuos Phoenix or Denafrips Gaia?
The Phoenix would be connected via USB to my Zenith MKIII then to a D90 MQA DAC.
If I chose the Denafrips Gaia the connection would still be USB Zenith III to Gaia but from Gaia it would be I2s to the D90 MQA DAC.
Any thoughts anyone?

Is the Denafrips Gaia the same type of component from input to out put as what the Innuos Phoenix and Ideons Audio two offerings are ?
i could be wrong about the Denafrips Gaia , I don’t know a single thing about it other then it costs a lot less naturally ,  the only serious competition that I’m currently aware to the Phoenix are Idion Audio  Master Time and the $7,000.00 Absolute Time .

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