Article: Review | Innuos PhoenixUSB Reclocker

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1 hour ago, JoeWhip said:

The question I have is how using this straight from my laptop and then to my DAC would compare to the signature Optical Rendu system from Sonore. Certainly cheaper and less boxes. I know Rajiv didn’t test this but would be interesting.

 

Hi Joe,

 

You're comparing two completely different systems, whereas my goal in the review is to hold everything else constant and compare the component-under-test with its competition.

 

Also, keep in mind the oR is an endpoint/streamer, so you do need a music server elsewhere in the network. Back to more boxes.

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27 minutes ago, trailblazers_song said:

Denafrips Giaa with a lot more options for digital input & output at 1/2 the price 

 

Interesting. No USB output?

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Guys, I can only do so much in one review. In my "real-life" profession, there is a phrase — don't boil the ocean! I chose to focus this review on 2 things:

• the USB - USB path
• users who don't build their USB sources.

Products like the Gaia mentioned above, or the well-established MUTEC MC-3+ and Singxer SU-1, are digital-to-digital converters (DDCs) in that they actually convert from one digital input format to another. The whole decision of "which input type is best" is a deep, deep rabbit hole that is completely OT for this discussion. I focused on USB sources and USB inputs. That is what the PhoenixUSB is designed for.

 

As regards PCIe cards like the JCAT USB XE, or previous stalwarts like the SOtM tX-USBexp, these belong to a subset of sources that people custom-build for themselves. Standalone units, like the PhoenixUSB, the tX-USBultra, and the ISO-Regen, are applicable to all sources.

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2 hours ago, rickca said:

@austinpop, any chance you could compare the Phoenix to the JCAT USB XE with a high quality 5V LPS like Optimo 3 Duo?

 

This would be interesting, but needs to wait until I can move to a future custom build where I have multiple PCIe slots to hold both the JCAT Net Femto and JCAT USB XE.

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1 hour ago, all300b said:

Nice review.  I'm curious as to what the clock in the sending device - in this case the Phoenix - is actually doing.  In your setup, the clock in the Chord Scaler should be acting in asynchronous mode to control the data stream.  Does this clock interact with the one in the sending device? 

 

 

I don't claim to know definitively the reason why a lower phase noise clock on the USB source has a positive effect on SQ. This has certainly been my experience, as has the quality of the power supply. The most plausible hypotheses I've read on this subject are the white paper put out by John Swenson, digital designer of Uptone Audio products. Please have a look.

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49 minutes ago, jrobbins50 said:

@austinpop, thank you. Wondering if you’ve ever had the opportunity to hear, and thus have a point of reference to comment upon, this far less expensive USB reclocking device:

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ideon-audio-3r-usb-renaissance-usb-hub/ JCR 

 

Unfortunately, no. That said, I've tried a plethora of devices over the years, both in terms of USB isolators/reclockers/regenerators, and associated power supplies. They include, in order of increasing sound quality and increasing cost:

• Wyred 4 Sound Recovery
• Intona Isolator
• Intona Isolator + W4S Recovery
• Uptone ISO-Regen
• SOtM tX-USBultra
• SOtM tX-USBultra reference clocked by MUTEC REF 10
• SOtM tX-USBultra reference clocked by MUTEC REF 10 SE 120

Ditto for power supplies.

 

There's something for every budget, but raising SQ does cost more, sadly not necessarily linearly. Such is audio!

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2 hours ago, all300b said:

Nice review.  I'm curious as to what the clock in the sending device - in this case the Phoenix - is actually doing.  In your setup, the clock in the Chord Scaler should be acting in asynchronous mode to control the data stream.  Does this clock interact with the one in the sending device? 

 

 

Upon rereading, I think I misunderstood your question. You asked what the clock in the Phoenix is actually doing. 

 

At the physical layer, per the USB 2.0 specification, USB devices need to send and receive "frames" at the signalling rate of 8KHz, or every 125 micro-seconds. You need a clock to achieve this, and this is what the Phoenix's clock does.

 

Frames are not full - they only carry as much data as is required to support the sample rate of the audio stream being sent. In asynchronous mode, the receiver (the DAC) does control the effective rate at which the audio stream is sent. This post explains it better than I could: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/29206-overall-isolation-network-usb-and-power/?do=findComment&comment=632117

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, bbosler said:

OK Mr. austinpop, I see you had a PS Audio regenerator in the system when you did the Ethergen review and now I see a Sound Application power conditioner. I know it was not a variable in this review, but that seems a pretty big change worth elaborating on

 

Not really. As a reviewer, my system is in more flux than the average person, with loaner and evaluation gear. The only thing germane to this review is that it was not a variable, and it was certainly not a sonic bottleneck.

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47 minutes ago, bbosler said:

 

let me rephrase that. As someone who is pretty happy with their system, I see power conditioning as one of the final pieces of the puzzle, icing on the cake so to speak, at least as final as you can be in this hobby. So I am very interested in your impressions of these 2 devices and why you  switched. Obviously you prefer the change or you would still be using the PS Audio. I didn't expect a full review inside this review, I'm asking about your impressions of the new power conditioner and why you switched. Perhaps I am getting ahead of you but whatever you can share would be appreciated.

 

 

 

The TT-7 is in another price and performance league. I was fortunate to have another spell with it in my system.

 

This post of mine with my impressions on another thread should answer your question. Let's take the discussion there.

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41 minutes ago, Quadiffusor HK said:

Ragiv,
I already have a SOtM-USBultra connected between my Aurender W20 and my MSB Techology Select II DAC (using the Intona USB Ultimate cables).  I’m very curious - did you try listening to the two USB conditioners connected together; ie. source > SOtM-USBultra > Innuos-PhoenixUSB > DAC ?

 

I did, with mixed results. There was a slight overall uptick in SQ using both devices in series, but not anything to write home about. It certainly makes no sense from a cost perspective.

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10 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

A good review.

Still, I question the premise of spending so much money on a USB recloker--especially if one is just embarking on the digit journey and the slate is clean.

Personality, I'd set an AES chain,. That format is likely to generate a cleaner signal for less money and greater simplicity.

Some will object to PMC, but one should do a thorough research whether the ear can detect anything above 192/24. There is little evidence to the contrary.

 

 

It all comes down to the extent to which you've experimented for yourself. On paper, there are pros and cons with both synchronous interfaces like S/PDIF and AES/EBU, and asynchronous interfaces like USB. This ends up being its own rabbit hole, and I don't want to go down it.

 

What I will say is that AES also benefits from reclocking and signal generation. I've experienced this with devices like the Mutec MC-3+, the SOtM dX-USB HD Ultra, and the Singxer SU-1, feeding several DACs.

 

There is no one right path, and each path has its optimization possibilities.

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Rajiv:

There is already enough misunderstanding about clocking out there so please be careful not to conflate audio-rate clocking (as done in DACs and DDCs--anything handling/generating S/PDIF, AES/EBU, I2S, or TOSLINK) with chip clocking for packet-data interfaces (Ethernet, USB, all computer chip clocks, etc.).

So completely different! The influence of sample-rate clocking (be it word-clock or bit-clock) is very direct.  

The influence of chip clocks (for USB, Ethernet, etc.) is vastly less direct and the mechanisms by which such can influence performance are completely different. (Reference our 'white paper' on that subject.)

 

Alex,

 

Good point. I merely wanted to point out out that every input type has an optimization path.

 

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59 minutes ago, ConcreteCow said:

I have inserted a Phoenix USB reclocker in my current system, but I'm not hearing a vast improvement as of yet, after two days listening (It has over 100 hours on it via demos).

 

First rule of buying audio gear — use your own ears! Use reviews and other people's opinions as a guide, perhaps to shortlist candidates, and then try before you buy. It looks like you are doing that, and good for you. If it doesn't deliver enough value to your ears, then that's all that ultimately matters.

 

That said, I am somewhat surprised by your experience. I don't have any experience with the D90 DAC unfortunately.

 

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Am I better off instead with an Chord M Scaler to the D90?

 

The Chord M Scaler is not a good fit with the D90. The M Scaler needs to deliver its upsampled signal (up to 768 kHz) to the DAC via 2 S/PDIF inputs in "dual data mode." I don't think the D90 has 2 coaxial or BNC inputs. And the one it has only goes to 192 kHz. So you could only get 1/4 of the million taps the HMS can deliver. 

 

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Then later down the line adding a Chord TT2 DAC?

 

If you are considering a DAC upgrade, then I would suggest flipping the order. Try the TT2 first as a standalone replacement to the D90. See — or rather, hear — what you think. If you like what you hear, then at a later point, you can add on the M-Scaler. The Phoenix will help in both cases.

 

So, using your own ears to judge value for money, and trying before buying, you could compare:

1. Innuos Zenith MK3 > (USB) > D90
2. Innuos Zenith MK3 > (USB) > TT2
3. Innuos Zenith MK3 > (USB) > Phoenix > (USB) > TT2
4. Innuos Zenith MK3 > (USB) > Phoenix > (USB) > M-Scaler > (dual BNC) > TT2

 

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At least my review sample required 5V VBUS on the input.

 

I found this out the hard way, as I was using an “unpowered” Sablon 2020 USB cable on the input and it wouldn’t work.

 

Details in the review.