Why do most audiophile prefer passive speakers?

[fas42]

18 hours ago, loop7 said:

I once asked a speaker manufacturer ($60,000 top price) if he thought his speakers might be better if active to which he replied "probably" but said it wouldn't be strategic which makes total sense.

 

Which is what it's all about ... 🙄.

 

Manufacturers want to make a living from what they do, and hobbyists crave experimenting - it's a mutually beneficial arrangement; so will continue, forever. However, some people just want to get the best sound, from an excellent value setup - and they are generally poorly served, by the industry, 😜.

[fas42]

5 hours ago, davide256 said:

I wouldn't buy an active speaker unless the amp was a plug in module that could be easily replaced. Speakers tend to last forever but electronics age/obsolesce.

 

Might have been in the past, but my latest experiences indicate otherwise ... a current digital in active speaker can certainly deliver everything that matters, in SQ - with added tweaks, 😉. The electronics are extremely compact, and in a parts sense there is not much to them - there is little that should go wrong.

 

The obsolescence can be taken care of by adding some conversion or other device in the digital link chain - I don't see a problem here ...

[davide256]

52 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Might have been in the past, but my latest experiences indicate otherwise ... a current digital in active speaker can certainly deliver everything that matters, in SQ - with added tweaks, 😉. The electronics are extremely compact, and in a parts sense there is not much to them - there is little that should go wrong.

 

The obsolescence can be taken care of by adding some conversion or other device in the digital link chain - I don't see a problem here ...

Queue overture to “Candide” here.

 

gear fails, modular designs get up and running again cheaper and faster. 

[fas42]

The little hiccup in that thinking, is that the very design of the modularity may be undermining the potential SQ - having this capability means lots of wires running to some single point, with bare metal to bare metal connectors in the equation as well. Yes, if this is "perfectly executed" then all should be fine - but is it?

 

Simplicity wins if trying to get best sound - note that some of the best sounding designs are superbly neat under the hood; there is a connection there. Complexity can introduce weaknesses - in spite of the best thinking of the designers.

 

Personally, I prefer a setup that delivers optimum sound at all times, with the possible penalty of having to be totally replaced in the future at some time. Versus one that is always compromised, just so I can have the security of knowing parts of it can be easily swapped, if a problem arises.

 

 

[GregWormald]

Please, let's not irretrievably link "active" and "adjustable output" to "digital".

 

My new speakers (not yet delivered) are active, have many advanced adjustment options, and are all analogue.

[Khaos]

Damn; my 95's still have bark!!!! 😎 AND A SPECIAL THANKS TO THIS FORUM FOR GETTING ME IN TROUBLE WITH MY SPOUSE!!! 😠 I realized after my last post that I haven't given my speakers a gentle nudge in recent memory. I said they were as clear today, as they were when I bought 'em--But did they really? So I hauled my legacy Pioneer form the, 'cedar', closet in the basement, set everything to neutral and null, pressed 'start', then began to open the throttle 'just a bit'. The sound only reached a couple houses down the block, about halfway into the throttle, when she exploded, "SHUT THAT DOWN!!!"

 

I know my equipment isn't the best, but it still has clear throat and "Bark!" I'm good with that!

 

Only time can tell whether or not silly-cone can outlast analog. But I also wonder whether or not we'll run out of oil first?!

[Khaos]

I'm not the right audience for this forum. As Joe Strummer once said:

 

Quote

The music has to be by the musicians, and there's too much changing things by the record company. I got a message for everyone in a record company: We don't care if you lose your job! You ruin music and I'll get all the smoothers out off the way, the people who smooth the sound off. Let the musicians have the music the way they want it

 

I prefer 'rough' around the edges. I am, after all, a teenager of the 80's. So you say you can make 'Paint it Black' sound better than it did in my early 80's Olds Cutlass 350? Don't make me laugh! 😁

 

If you have perfect hearing when you die, what does that say about how you lived?

[Khaos]

"Video Killed the Radio Star". nuff said!

[Revelation]

Active speakers are built to a price. The amps won't get you the sound of higher end solid state and tube amps.

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Revelation said:

Active speakers are built to a price. The amps won't get you the sound of higher . end solid state and tube amps.

Way too general.  Depends on the speaker. The better ones have excellent amps. And unlike with passive speakers, the amps can be specifically designed for each driver (no "one amp for all").  This means much simpler amp design and lower cost to get high end results.

You should check with the manufacturers who make high end speakers that are produced in both active and passive versions. Every one of them will tell you the active versions sound/perform better.

[BlueDL]

31 minutes ago, firedog said:

Way too general.  Depends on the speaker. The better ones have excellent amps. And unlike with passive speakers, the amps can be specifically designed for each driver (no "one amp for all").  This means much simpler amp design and lower cost to get high end results.

You should check with the manufacturers who make high end speakers that are produced in both active and passive versions. Every one of them will tell you the active versions sound/perform better.

Spot on. I have ATC 3-way actives, and the almost universal view is that you’d need to spend twice the price on amplification in order to get the passive equivalent to even sound close.

[Revelation]

I am referring to high end audio. You won't get the sound of a Macintosh or Conrad Johnson with active speaker amps. They tend to be very clean and lack any character 

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, Revelation said:

I am referring to high end audio. You won't get the sound of a Macintosh or Conrad Johnson with active speaker amps. They tend to be very clean and lack any character 

 

I guess it depends whether your goal is pleasing coloration or accuracy...

[firedog]

7 minutes ago, Revelation said:

I am referring to high end audio. You won't get the sound of a Macintosh or Conrad Johnson with active speaker amps. They tend to be very clean and lack any character 

I wasn't aware that amps are supposed to add "character". It must have been my mistake -  I was under the impression that  the goal of a "high end" amp was to transfer the source signal perfectly amplified - without adding or subtracting anything.

[Revelation]

15 minutes ago, firedog said:

I wasn't aware that amps are supposed to add "character". It must have been my mistake -  I was under the impression that  the goal of a "high end" amp was to transfer the source signal perfectly amplified - without adding or subtracting anything.

Every speaker has their own personality as well as amps. Rounding off highs or providing a more solid sound is what many amps do. Almosy evey speaker company has their own personality from the smoother Focal to the more heavier bass B&W.

I am an audio engineer and have been working in recording studios since the 80's. I also purchased a Adcom 555 amp and preamp  back in the late 80' with Infinity Kappa speakers. I won't debate on the forums as it's a waste of time. I also understand not all your thoughts and experience are stated in quick responses on forums so sometimes what your trying to get across is not done the best 

[Teresa]

Don’t speakers have a longer lifespan than amps? Could that be part of the reason some prefer passive speakers?

 

Also isn't it easier to carry an amp into the repair shop versus an amplified speaker if the per-amp or amp part develops problems?

[firedog]

3 hours ago, Teresa said:

Don’t speakers have a longer lifespan than amps? Could that be part of the reason some prefer passive speakers?

 

Also isn't it easier to carry an amp into the repair shop versus an amplified speaker if the per-amp or amp part develops problems?

Definitely a downside of actives with internal amps that if anything goes wrong, you basically have to bring the whole system in, as it were. 

[cjf]

I think one reason the harder core audiophiles haven't embraced Active speakers is because most (maybe all?) actives use Class D amplification which some may argue still is't there yet in terms of ultimate SQ. Whether this is true or not is a matter of personal taste.

 

I would also agree that the fear of component failure within the Active speaker can add additional headaches when it comes to repair, assuming its even repairable at all.

 

Then there is the benefit with passives of being able to tailor the flavor/sound to your liking more easily (if that's your thing). With Actives you mostly get what they give you unless you start playing with EQ/DSP.

 

If I were to start over though I would most likely go Active despite any pitfalls as I think at this point the newer technology sounds way better than it did back in the day when Active's were first introduced. I personally would not buy an Active with a DAC built-in though. That technology changes way too fast to be stuck with an outdated DAC baked in.

[Revelation]

I have Focal Twins in my recording studio. They are powered speakers. Most people today use powered speakers in their recording studios. They want a flat uncolored sound that some audiophile people would say is boring. They are also built to a price point.  Engineers like amps that are clean with no color because when they mix music from a neutral setup, this helps them mix music that will sound good on many different systems.

 

If my Focal Aria speakers were powered for my stereo, they would have that same clean vanilla sound as the Twins. For many people that would be fine, but for others who like the character of high end solid state or tube amps it would not.

 

Many people want the character of a certain amp if its tube or solid system. Clearlry the amps built into my Twins will not have the sound or sound stage of many amps that can make the music more enjoyable. By smoothing the music, rounding off the crash cymbals, the music can have a more pleasant sound to your ears.

 

I could buy a NAD amp for under around $2,500 to play my Aria speakers or spend $5,000 on a Macintosh MC152, or more money on a Krell or Conrad Johnson. The higher end amps provide the listener with a sound you could not get with a clean less expensive amp. It all depends on what sound you want. For mixing in my studio I want the vanilla sound. For listening to music for funny I want the color and faster transients that a amp with better components will provide.

 

If you like a high end amp with its certain character you can use it with any speaker setup. This is another reason why for listening to music the amp selection is important.

 

Barefoot makes high end monitors for studio. They are very clinical, and clean.  Poorly recorded music can sound harsh and unpleasant on them. It could be a record from the 50's, 60's,  the 80's that did not have good converters or a album that was just not mixed well.

They also act like a high powered microscope that it brings up all the little noises in the background that includes hearing music bleeding from the singers headphones, to reflections in the room and background noises that most speakers would not pick up. These are great for mixing music to correct and fine tune things. But for listening to music you would not want to hear all these detail and you would want more fun than these honest speakers. 

 

Having a separate amp for playing music gives you more options when you want more than just a average Class D type of amp that does not enhance the music. 

[audiobomber]

I have nothing against powered speakers. In fact if I were starting over, as I did in the 1990's after a burglary, I would most likely go with powered speakers.

 

As it stands however, I have four audio systems located throughout the house, with backup amp, DAC and speakers ready to step in should something fail. Eventually we will sell the house and move to an apartment, at which time I will scale down to two systems, keeping the best of what I have and some backups. I don't see any room for powered speakers in my future.

[SmithMoriss]

On 5/13/2020 at 6:36 PM, erasergate said:

May I know why ? 

 

In relation to this, I have more questions.

 

- It seem to me that an active speakers is more convenient ?

- Can i still put powered speakers on AMP/DAC ?

- there are speakers with built in amp/dac , will the external amp/dac override it ? add? or vice versa?

 

The most significant advantage passive speakers have over powered one is that there’s a lot more of them out there. With powered speakers, you’re pretty much resigned to getting a stereo pair of bookshelf speakers — or a 2.1 system that includes a subwoofer.

Passive speakers are available in all shapes and sizes, and you can integrate speakers from different companies into a single system. You also get to pick the exact stereo receiver you want to get, and upgrade it over time without having to replace your speakers.

Home theater systems that use passive speakers are more flexible, although having more choices does add a layer of complexity when picking the right ones. With powered speakers, what you see is what you get.

[audiobomber]

On 6/17/2021 at 6:45 PM, cjf said:

I personally would not buy an Active with a DAC built-in though. That technology changes way too fast to be stuck with an outdated DAC baked in.

Same here. My DAC/preamp is the heart of my system. I want control over it.

[Raimund Heubel]

I can only echo this statement.

If one wants to be on top of Streamer/DAC technology but prefers to hear with active speakers the only alternative for him/her will be to buy active speakers without DAC/DSP built in and do potential room correction tweaks in the digital domain outside of such speakers. There are quite a number of manufacturers of active speakers w/o DAC/DSP such as ‚Abacus‘, ‚AGM‘, ‚Audio Optimum‘, ‚Neumann‘, ‚Manger’, ME-Geithain‘ and ‚Silbersand‘ from Germany, ‚ATC‘ from the ‚U.K.‘ and ‚PSI Audio‘ from Switzerland.

[stefano_mbp]

On 7/11/2021 at 10:37 AM, SmithMoriss said:

With powered speakers, you’re pretty much resigned to getting a stereo pair of bookshelf speakers — or a 2.1 system that includes a subwoofer

… I wouldn't be so ... absolute

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm19a/
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm40a/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm150aslt/

… just few examples

[firedog]

24 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

… I wouldn't be so ... absolute

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm19a/
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm40a/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm150aslt/

… just few examples

Not to mention Dynaudio, Bryston, Dali, PMC, Elac....and others.

The amount of actives on the market has greatly increased in the past few years, and many are intended for audiophiles. 

Younger listeners are less interested in the multiple boxes. I think actives will be a growing percentage of the market.