Why do most audiophile prefer passive speakers?

[firedog]

2 hours ago, erasergate said:

May I know why ? 

 

In relation to this, I have more questions.

 

- It seem to me that an active speakers is more convenient ?

- Can i still put powered speakers on AMP/DAC ?

- there are speakers with built in amp/dac , will the external amp/dac override it ? add? or vice versa?

Traditionally, audiophiles like to play with boxes and (usually mistakenly) think they can play mix and match and come up with a better combination of amp/dac/speaker than the designer of a speaker with the electronics built in. But quality actives will almost always sound better than a passive version of the same speaker with a traditional amp. That's becuase the designer has maximized the amp/speaker combo so that the amp matches the speaker as well as possible. They are also usually a better buy on the dollars/SQ scale. Less boxes=more economical build for a given level of SQ. 

 

If you especially like or already have a very good passive only speaker model, it doesn't fit the active/powered path and that's a deal breaker for many. And for some audiophiles, playing around and switching components is part of the fun of the hobby. 

 

Audiophiles also like to upgrade gradually, one component at a time. If all your electronics are in the speaker box, you can't do this. However, today there are so many good actives available at all price points that you could start with something modest and climb the ladder to more expensive and better sounding models as you go. Dynaudio is a good example of this-a whole line of actives. 

 

1)Yes, until-if they need repair.

2) Speakers with built in amp, cannot be connected to another power amp - only a preamp or other analog line source. You can use an external DAC as your source. 

3) If the speakers also have a built in DAC, they will take either a digital source, or/also take an analog source and

then digitize it and feed it to the internal DAC. With good actives you are very unlikely to improve performance using outside boxes, as they've already been performance optimized. You might color the sound in a way you like, though. For instance, you could feed the actives from a tube based source if you like the sound of tubes.  Or from a specific DAC that you love the sound of. 

There are also those who use a turntable and feed the analog output to their actives. With the better ones, there is little or no downside to this, as the AD/DA conversion is very high quality, and the result still sounds like vinyl. 

[firedog]

28 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

How dare I enjoy something eh?

Chutzpah. You should be locked up.

[firedog]

2 hours ago, 4est said:

As for myself, I am not convinced that the DSP applied to a lot of these speakers can overcome the small drivers that often accompany the actives.

No one claims they will match the physical slam of the bass output of a 12 inch or 15 inch sub-woofer powered by a big amp.

 

But if you think they are in any way "lacking" in bass output, you are quite mistaken. More than enough to convincingly portray either a symphony or modern electronic music for the vast majority of listeners. One of the advantages of such a system is it allows the designer to maximize the output of the woofers without pushing them into distortion. So the same woofer in such a speaker can output significantly more bass (sometimes as even going 10 or20 hz lower) than the same woofer in a conventional setup. 

[firedog]

2 hours ago, beetlemania said:

The list of manufacturers who know how to make top shelf speakers *and* electronics is pretty short. Charles Hansen might have been in this category but he did these with different companies. Richard Vandersteen, perhaps, but I suspect he had help with his amp (Jim White?). Linn makes good gear but, IMO, not quite top shelf. Maybe MBL but I’ve only heard their gear once at RMAF. I’m probably forgetting somebody but, again, not many have “mastered” both. I am curious to hear Dutch and Dutch - rave reviews and outstanding measurements. 

Not sure these days a manufacturer has to perfectly know both. A speaker manufacturer can order amp modules that match the characteristics needed for the speaker drivers.

[firedog]

11 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

They are not immune.

Kii Three + BXT

 

11 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

They are not immune.

Kii Three + BXT

Clearly wasn't referring to the BXT, that's already a different animal. 

[firedog]

52 minutes ago, 4est said:

You might want to consider this assertion. The DSP likely creates more distortion as it attempts to force the smaller drivers to operate below what it is capable of. This might sound good to you, but there is little chance that the bass driver actually has lower distortion than if you were using a proper one - unless perchance it is servo controlled or something.

Not at all. There are different types of DSP going on in such a system like the Kii or Beolab 90. One of the things the DSP in such a system does is PREVENT distortion. It's not a question of a "proper" driver. It means that the designers have mapped the behavior of the specific woofer and use DSP to control it so it goes to the limit of its ability and not beyond. That isn't possible in a conventional system. So it allows more bass extension and less distortion. 

Devialet does a similar thing with SAM. Check out how SAM changes and extends the response of various speakers. 

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Revelation said:

Active speakers are built to a price. The amps won't get you the sound of higher . end solid state and tube amps.

Way too general.  Depends on the speaker. The better ones have excellent amps. And unlike with passive speakers, the amps can be specifically designed for each driver (no "one amp for all").  This means much simpler amp design and lower cost to get high end results.

You should check with the manufacturers who make high end speakers that are produced in both active and passive versions. Every one of them will tell you the active versions sound/perform better.

[firedog]

7 minutes ago, Revelation said:

I am referring to high end audio. You won't get the sound of a Macintosh or Conrad Johnson with active speaker amps. They tend to be very clean and lack any character 

I wasn't aware that amps are supposed to add "character". It must have been my mistake -  I was under the impression that  the goal of a "high end" amp was to transfer the source signal perfectly amplified - without adding or subtracting anything.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, Teresa said:

Don’t speakers have a longer lifespan than amps? Could that be part of the reason some prefer passive speakers?

 

Also isn't it easier to carry an amp into the repair shop versus an amplified speaker if the per-amp or amp part develops problems?

Definitely a downside of actives with internal amps that if anything goes wrong, you basically have to bring the whole system in, as it were. 

[firedog]

24 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

… I wouldn't be so ... absolute

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm19a/
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm40a/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm150aslt/

… just few examples

Not to mention Dynaudio, Bryston, Dali, PMC, Elac....and others.

The amount of actives on the market has greatly increased in the past few years, and many are intended for audiophiles. 

Younger listeners are less interested in the multiple boxes. I think actives will be a growing percentage of the market.

[firedog]

20 hours ago, Raimund Heubel said:

While I agree that all these brands offer active speakers do you know whether the Dynaudios, Brystons, Dalis, PMCs and Elacs come with or without DSP?

Depends on the company. Sometimes depends on the model within the same company.

[firedog]

2 hours ago, Raimund Heubel said:

I honestly thought neither of these companies are currently offering active speakers without DAC but I am maybe wrong.

 

BR,

Raimund

I don't remember offhand all of them, but Bryston and ELAC make analog actives. input from analog amp. No DAC. I think PMC makes both types. 

[firedog]

12 hours ago, Raimund Heubel said:

Thanks for your reply, firedog.

I checked the Bryston website and found the following: 'Bryston’s Active Loudspeakers leverage the incredible power of our DSP engine', so no luck with Bryston in terms of active speakers w/o DSP.

I moved on and visited the ELAC website, their 'Navis' series offers both DSP - if operated wirelessly - and without DSP - if wireless is off.

PMC do not offer any active speakers on their website.

 

BR,

Raimund

 

The ELAC are described as "pure analog" if you don't use the wireless.

PMC. Look again.

Active | PMC Speakers (pmc-speakers.com)

https://pmc-speakers.com/products/consumer/se-active-series

 

See models that specifically say they have analog input.