Rendu USB vs Bridge ll

[vkennedy]

Apologies if this has been covered in this thread. I read through a good bit, and didn't see this use case:

 

Setup:

Two switches with a fiber backbone.

1. Switch 1 is considered "Core". It's located in a network cabinet and is where the gateway to internet enters the network.

2. Switch 2 is in an audio rack and supports all of the Ethernet devices (Oppo, Control4, Roku, etc...) in the cabinet.

3. The uplink between Switch 1 and 2 is fiber. Both Switches are Ubiquiti Unifi with Ubiquiti Fiber SFP's. 

4. DAC is a PS Audio DirectStream DAC with the Bridge II ethernet card installed.

5. DAC has two connections to it: 

1) Ethernet off of Switch 2;

2) A USB connection from a Sonore ultraRendu. The ultraRendu is fed from Switch 2. 

 

As a matter of reference, both connections sound very good. I generally feel that the USB connection has a little more "sparkle" then the Ethernet, but that could be my imagination. Then again, isn't a lot of this perception? 😉

 

Since I have "cleaned up" the signal between Switch 1 and 2 via the fiber uplink, I do wonder if there's any real benefit to changing out the ultraRendu with an opticalRendu. If I did change to an opticalRendu, I would add a second fiber SPF to the switch to feed the opticalRendu. I understand that Switch 2 could be introducing some noise, but could it be enough to hear?

 

Thoughts?

[ksalno]

26 minutes ago, vkennedy said:

Apologies if this has been covered in this thread. I read through a good bit, and didn't see this use case:

 

Setup:

Two switches with a fiber backbone.

1. Switch 1 is considered "Core". It's located in a network cabinet and is where the gateway to internet enters the network.

2. Switch 2 is in an audio rack and supports all of the Ethernet devices (Oppo, Control4, Roku, etc...) in the cabinet.

3. The uplink between Switch 1 and 2 is fiber. Both Switches are Ubiquiti Unifi with Ubiquiti Fiber SFP's. 

4. DAC is a PS Audio DirectStream DAC with the Bridge II ethernet card installed.

5. DAC has two connections to it: 

1) Ethernet off of Switch 2;

2) A USB connection from a Sonore ultraRendu. The ultraRendu is fed from Switch 2. 

 

As a matter of reference, both connections sound very good. I generally feel that the USB connection has a little more "sparkle" then the Ethernet, but that could be my imagination. Then again, isn't a lot of this perception? 😉

 

Since I have "cleaned up" the signal between Switch 1 and 2 via the fiber uplink, I do wonder if there's any real benefit to changing out the ultraRendu with an opticalRendu. If I did change to an opticalRendu, I would add a second fiber SPF to the switch to feed the opticalRendu. I understand that Switch 2 could be introducing some noise, but could it be enough to hear?

 

Thoughts?

I have a similar setup with a PS Audio DSD and Bridge II. I have tried the USB but was never happy with it compared to the Bridge. My two favorite sounding connections are SFP out from my rack switch to a TrippLite media converter with a short run of ethernet cable to the Bridge II, which you can do for less than $200. This will have the same benefit as the opticalRendu in providing optical isolation but permits using what even Ted Smith considers the better sounding input on the PSA, which is the Bridge II. The other option I use is I have a SOtM sMS-200 Ultra (similar to your Sonore) but instead of running USB to the PSA, I inserted a Sonore UltraDigital ($400) which takes the USB and provides an i2S output which I then connect via a 0.5m HDMI cable to the PSA. Both options sound better than anything I've tried into USB and are hard to tell apart in A:B tests. Either option is much less than an opticalRendu and will provide equal or better performance.

[vkennedy]

19 minutes ago, ksalno said:

I have a similar setup with a PS Audio DSD and Bridge II. I have tried the USB but was never happy with it compared to the Bridge. My two favorite sounding connections are SFP out from my rack switch to a TrippLite media converter with a short run of ethernet cable to the Bridge II, which you can do for less than $200. This will have the same benefit as the opticalRendu in providing optical isolation but permits using what even Ted Smith considers the better sounding input on the PSA, which is the Bridge II. The other option I use is I have a SOtM sMS-200 Ultra (similar to your Sonore) but instead of running USB to the PSA, I inserted a Sonore UltraDigital ($400) which takes the USB and provides an i2S output which I then connect via a 0.5m HDMI cable to the PSA. Both options sound better than anything I've tried into USB and are hard to tell apart in A:B tests. Either option is much less than an opticalRendu and will provide equal or better performance.

Oh, I like both of those options. OK, time to play some more. 

 

Thanks!

[Cormorant]

5 hours ago, ksalno said:

My two favorite sounding connections are SFP out from my rack switch to a TrippLite media converter with a short run of ethernet cable to the Bridge II...

 

I am guessing a Sonore opticalModule would sound hella better.  So: SFP from rack switch->optical fiber->opticalModule->ethernet->Bridge II.  Assuming it works in this application - ksalno - do you think it would?

 

I heart my opticalModule.

[vkennedy]

While I am waiting for the opticalModule to be released I ordered a StarTech media converter and two Unifi SFP to put between the switch and the PS Audio DirectStream DAC. 

 

I'll listen to this until the opticalModule shows up and then I'll do some comparative listening. I've got another use for StarTech so hopefully the opticalModule wins out 😉

 

More to come....

[vortecjr]

12 hours ago, ksalno said:

I have a similar setup with a PS Audio DSD and Bridge II. I have tried the USB but was never happy with it compared to the Bridge. My two favorite sounding connections are SFP out from my rack switch to a TrippLite media converter with a short run of ethernet cable to the Bridge II, which you can do for less than $200. This will have the same benefit as the opticalRendu in providing optical isolation but permits using what even Ted Smith considers the better sounding input on the PSA, which is the Bridge II. The other option I use is I have a SOtM sMS-200 Ultra (similar to your Sonore) but instead of running USB to the PSA, I inserted a Sonore UltraDigital ($400) which takes the USB and provides an i2S output which I then connect via a 0.5m HDMI cable to the PSA. Both options sound better than anything I've tried into USB and are hard to tell apart in A:B tests. Either option is much less than an opticalRendu and will provide equal or better performance.

My VP had the PS Audio DS DAC for many years. He found the best input was USB without the Bridge installed. This combination provides more streaming features, higher sample rates, continuous software upgrades, and so on via the Sonic Orbiter OS. Another key benefit is the Rendu works on just about any DAC. Feedback from our ultraDigital customers is very good and naturally couples the benefits of Sonic Orbiter OS. 

[vortecjr]

FYI, the PS Audio Bridge is 100 speed only and not compatible with the opticalModule.

[ksalno]

9 hours ago, Cormorant said:

 

I am guessing a Sonore opticalModule would sound hella better.  So: SFP from rack switch->optical fiber->opticalModule->ethernet->Bridge II.  Assuming it works in this application - ksalno - do you think it would?

 

I heart my opticalModule.

If you already have the opticalModule, use it as you have outlined. No need to buy a TrippLite. I got mine awhile ago before Sonore (or anyone else in the audio world) was supporting direct fiber connections. I don't have an opticalModule, so I've never had a chance to compare one to the TrippLite. BTW, I do use a Uptone LPS-2 power supply for the TrippLite, so it sounds very good. 

[ksalno]

2 hours ago, vortecjr said:

My VP had the PS Audio DS DAC for many years. He found the best input was USB without the Bridge installed. This combination provides more streaming features, higher sample rates, continuous software upgrades, and so on via the Sonic Orbiter OS. Another key benefit is the Rendu works on just about any DAC. Feedback from our ultraDigital customers is very good and naturally couples the benefits of Sonic Orbiter OS. 

My experience has been the opposite in my system. For me, I rank the inputs on the Directstream in terms of sound quality as 1) i2S via the ultraDigital (of course, the ultraDigital can be feed by any version of Rendu, I happen to use a SOtM in my setup). 2) the Bridge II (not the original Bridge which may be what your boss had) with a fiber isolator between the switch and the Bridge II (I use the TrippLite which does support 10Mbps-1G). 3) USB direct from a streamer (I tried it but no longer use this input). 

[barrows]

32 minutes ago, ksalno said:

My experience has been the opposite in my system. For me, I rank the inputs on the Directstream in terms of sound quality as 1) i2S via the ultraDigital (of course, the ultraDigital can be feed by any version of Rendu, I happen to use a SOtM in my setup). 2) the Bridge II (not the original Bridge which may be what your boss had) with a fiber isolator between the switch and the Bridge II (I use the TrippLite which does support 10Mbps-1G). 3) USB direct from a streamer (I tried it but no longer use this input). 

Did you remove the Bridge II for testing the USB input?  I ask because I am intimately familiar with the PS DS DAC (I have done a few simple power supply upgrades on them for owners).  The Bridge II is powered and producing quite a lot of noise inside the chassis even when not in use.  The Sonore VP found best performance with the PS DS via USB with the Bridge II removed.  There is no shielding of the Bridge II from the actual DAC circuitry internally.

Note that the two box DAC solution PS Audio is developing is being done precisely to eliminate the interference of the input receivers and oversampling engine (FPGA) from the DAC conversion and output stages.

[ksalno]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

Did you remove the Bridge II for testing the USB input?  I ask because I am intimately familiar with the PS DS DAC (I have done a few simple power supply upgrades on them for owners).  The Bridge II is powered and producing quite a lot of noise inside the chassis even when not in use.  The Sonore VP found best performance with the PS DS via USB with the Bridge II removed.  There is no shielding of the Bridge II from the actual DAC circuitry internally.

Note that the two box DAC solution PS Audio is developing is being done precisely to eliminate the interference of the input receivers and oversampling engine (FPGA) from the DAC conversion and output stages.

No, I never tested with the Bridge card removed. I'll give that a try.