Can Bad Recordings sound Good?

[beerandmusic]

INRE topic, every time i try something new in my audio chain, i always go to eva cassidy fields of gold.

Her voice just pulls you in like no other artist i have ever heard, but there are usually 1 or 2 "shrilling" moments...don't know if its the recording or just her voice, but that one or two notes kind of kills the song....wondering if have a tube preamp might help.

I don't know if she has any really good recordings...seems like most out there are amateurish recordings, which is a shame she never signed with a major label....

 

[beerandmusic]

17 minutes ago, Confused said:

 

Would a tube pre-amp help with some types of recording?  Maybe, there are some interesting results from Archimago's recent "is high harmonic distortion in music audible" blind test.  Some of the results indicate that harmonic distortion may have some euphonic properties.  I know from performing the test myself that my reaction to the 3.2% (be that positive or negative) was dependant on the sample track used, and what specifically I was listening too in the track.  So, as a cheaper option to buying a tube preamp to try, why not try running a few chosen tracks though the Distort software, adding a touch of THD, and see how it sounds.  This could be a very interesting experiment if tried on a selection of "bad" recordings, or recordings with specific issues.

 

I have no idea what this might do to Eva Cassidy's "shrilling" moments, but it might be an interesting experiment to try.  Plus, if the results are terrible, it saves you the cost of the tube preamp!

 

https://distortaudio.org/

 

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/01/internet-blind-test-is-high-harmonic.html

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/05/blind-test-results-part-i-is-high.html

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/06/blind-test-results-part-ii-is-high.html

 

 

Yea, i read his article....very good, and it actually emphasized my own thinking about "why try so hard to find the perfect hardware", when no hardware sounds better for all things.  Sometimes I think about buying speakers that sound better for "rock" as my "jazz" speakers sound like crap for rock.  And sometimes I like a Schiit dac better than a dsd dac.    I am not much of a "DIY'r"...i am probably not a true audiophile.  I am too lazy and my time is too precious, so i doubt i will try the software, mainly due to laziness and time.  I spend too much time writing messages in the forums to do all my work and thinking for me (grin).  I actually think I have more fun writing in the forums than i do listening to music...(grin)...but every now and then i will get off my ass and try something new, as long as it is easy...i am usually less than "wowed" with any "so called improvements" considering any time i spent....hell, I still have a components in the box I bought over a year ago for an atmos system and run audyssey eq....crap i still have to clean the backyard and the garage first....i hate moving.

 

Oh yea, i bought optical crap and an isolation transformer a couple years ago, that are around here somewhere....

[beerandmusic]

24 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Try this:

 

 

I have that...and yes, if i recall it is a better recording...do you know more about that specific recording or?

 

That has one of my better songs of her...as a matter of fact, thanks for reminding me...i need to add it to the best youtube videos.

 

 

[beerandmusic]

44 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Sorry Frank, but  NO System change for the better is going to correct this problem.

The difficult bits on this track sound less shrill on her album " Eva Cassidy - Live At Blues Alley 1998"

 

I agree, unless you would consider perfect shrill better than distorted shrill (grin), and likely the more you better your system, the more annoying the video would be.  The only thing that could make it better is to make it less accurate with others have suggested "distortion". 

 

I actually just realized, i posted the wrong video that i meant to post...i meant to post fields of gold, but posted over the rainbow.

here is fields of gold.

 

It's a shame she never got some good recordngs before she died of cancer (she never realized her fame in her life and reaching #1 charts in UK even though she is native to US)....i even just read about the Live at blues alley had many problems too...including noise due to some lighting on day one, and day two she had a cold, and they ended up piecing together the album with other "better recordings".   I only had it on mp3, So I just bought "NIGHTBIRD" which include her complete recordings during those 2 days.... just bought a copy on ebay.... I have probably bought less than 10 cds on ebay, but I wanted "nightbird"...it even comes with a dvd, which i am also very curious as to.

 

 

[beerandmusic]

^^^ just an FYI for anyone else they may be interested in this lost legend.

 

http://evacassidy.org/

 

http://www.bmansbluesreport.com/2015/10/eva-cassidys-complete-1996-blues-alley.html

 

 

[beerandmusic]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

My experience is quite other ... when recording playback makes the vocals shrill at some point, this is always a sign that the distortion of the replay chain is too high - it intermodulates with the intensity of that moment in the piece ... and it becomes unpleasant.

 

Just think of a situation when you are close to someone, live, who is singling loudly ... they go for a note or sing loudly; it may "pressurise the room", or be very intense in its subjective impact. This is precisely what happens with competent playback when the "big stuff comes!", in the track - if you wince, instead, then this is a giveaway that the rig is not doing its job properly.

 

 

logic dictates that if you "improve" on a system that compensates for a bad recording, that you will degrading it for better recordings.

 

It is also a reason, imho, people shouldn't get too caught up in spending countless hours trying to squeeze out 2% better, because more than likely, they will end up with more music that sounds slightly worse (smile)....back to beer.

[beerandmusic]

32 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

I (and any number of other contributors to this site) have been reading your endless posts about your “method” for years now, and while I cannot speak for others, I have come to the conclusion that the improvements (especially the scope and magnitude of those improvements) are figments of your imagination.

 

 

I never understand "FAS LOGIC" ..there has to be a starting point before there can be a debate?

[beerandmusic]

31 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Because the logic, always, follows the experience ... anyone who has come across a rig that makes a recording you have heard a million times, become a magical experience has been exposed to what can happen ... the trick is to stop thinking that this can only occur in some mythical land, and say to yourself, "Hey, I'm going to make this happen for me!"

 

I am looking forward to heaven too (wink)...or maybe you curl up to a loved one, and then everything is bliss...you definitely are riding some type of mojo, and when i find out what it is, i will be right there with you....reminds me of my favorite restaurant....I know they put some "magic juice" in their drinks, because every time I go there, i leave with a smile...no other drink anywhere does this to me.....i wish i knew what the hell they were using...i think they have "liquid love" that they sprinkle in there.

[beerandmusic]

32 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Actually, the latest Yiggy with it’s totally redesigned USB input, actually sounds indistinguishable from the SPDIF input. I’m impressed.

 

+1...imho, it is the first dac i have had that sounds decent out my noisy everyday windows pc....

i think it's the first well designed usb input for a dac (in this price range)....about time!

 

Not quite convinced it beats the dynamics of what is possible with a quieter player via ethernet, but it is very close ....i have to do more critical listening....(too many other projects right now).

 

[beerandmusic]

28 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

I will be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

Initial thoughts were that I finally have a solution that i can be content with (FOR my everyday windows pc), which is probably more important (to me) than my critical listening system, because I use it more often (I intend to combine them at some point).  I don't think my feelings will change, that there are more dynamics playing DSD over ENET for most critical listening, but it is now for the first time, in 8 years (after trying a dozen different dacs) "close" and certainly acceptable for my everyday pc....i strongly believe that Mike Moffat has "finally" created a well designed dac that doesn't need usb toys. (not saying his previous generations weren't good for the money, just that it has always been my contention that a DAC should be designed such that a noisy usb should not be in the equation).  Most DIY'ers were content to find other methods to compensate using fancy cables, fancy power supplies, regenrators, reclockers, isolators etc....but i have been literally screaming for years that the DAC design needs to fix this....

 

My opinions will likely never fit anyone elses desires though because, I am not a DIY'er, I have a very cheap budget, and gear I have used is likely much different ideas than anyone else.  I don't even consider myself an audiophile anymore, because I am content having "good enough", and have no desire in spending countless hours of time and money in trying to get that 5% better, although i have taken many lazy steps in my attempts in the past.    I was yelling at people to try streaming DSD over used SONY BLURAY players before DSD gained popularity and before usb toys existed...solutions i use today, most people would laugh at, so any opinion i have is really meaningless, so I wouldn't wait too long (grin)....but i have ALEXA (smile), and thanks to Computeraudiophile(Chris), i now have CIFS working too....i also have some ATC mid domes now in my man cave (smile).

 

[beerandmusic]

7 hours ago, gmgraves said:

The Chord Hugo 2 still sounds better than the latest Yiggy, but it’s a lot closer than before.

Is it possible that the yiggy sounds better with some recordings and the hugo sounds better with other recordings?

That has always been my experience in comparing different dacs....never owned a chord though, which is why I am most eager to try....i have the feeling that it will not be a "wow moment" though...i haven't ever had a "wow moment" with a DAC.

[beerandmusic]

30 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Absolutely

Like with many (not all) things, wow moments and awe, come with better quality. DACS are in that category. Go and listen to the top MSB DACS and tell me if you feel the same. IMO a little too much WOW (which can get in the road of the music). Yes, expensive but trickle down effects make their way eventually to value and budget gear.

 

I have heard wow moments with speakers but never with dacs.  Probably the best dac i have had was a gungnir mb, and I think the bifrost with unison sounds better, and I have had no less than a dozen different dsd dacs...but again, i just don't want to put the effort into building a "high end" special use pc just to see if i can equal what i can get by streaming dsd via dlna...i guess I just can't fathom it getting any better without spending big bucks.  I have been to my share of shows, and been to audiophile music groups with some pretty elaborate setups, but none really wowed me with exception of some very high end stuff (e.g. $300K speakers and the like)...and it was always the speakers...i have been "wowed" with speakers with people playing from very cheap front ends.

[beerandmusic]

10 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

That's not been my experience.

between san diego and las vegas i have been to probably about 8 shows and have seen them use relatively inexpensive front ends more often than not....i did see SAE power presentation using a moffat theta though....but many use cheap apple front ends, unless they actually are selling front ends, e.g. naim, lumin, etc..  that has been my experience.  I have seen many highend front ends as well...i would guess it was about 50/50, but in all likelihood it has always been the speakers that made the impression on me....example, it didnt seem to matter what they use as amplifier or front end, i am always impressed when the speakers were focal, atc, magico, etc...

[beerandmusic]

I was trying to think if i could recall any front end really standing out to me besides the theta, and one i could think of was when  DSD was first gaining popularity...was the zodiac antelope with its external clock, and they were teaming up with amphion speakers....sounded phenomenal...that was a wow moment for me...it was the best sounding small speaker I have ever heard, and i am sure the zodiac had something to do with it, but i likely would have been wowed with it being played from an iphone as well.

 

Sure, i have seen them all, the aurenders, lumins, naims, etc, but if they weren't paired with a "wow" speaker, they may have sounded very good, but no wow moment.

[beerandmusic]

7 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

I haven’t noticed that. My experience is that the Hugo2 just lets me “hear” more deeply into the music. Of course, the Hugo2 does not reside with me, it belongs to a buddy, so my experience with it is transitory. But on direct comparison, on those occasions when I had access to both, the Hugo was better on everything I threw at it.

maybe the qutest is worth consideration....hmmm....

do you have a "fancy pc" with "fancy ps"?

 

I guess that is part of the reason i am reluctant to try yet another dac, that if i don't experience a "wow" moment, it will likely be that i need a special built computer and fancy power supply, and really do not want to go down that path.

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

Believe me, it won’t do any good. Stick with what you’ve got,

figured as much...

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Let's say, as a thought experiment, Taiko were selling "The extreme" at $2,000 would you bother to audition it?

for me, if it was an easy return with just paying shipping costs, i would probably try anything where it was suggested try this solution and it included the source and dac for under 3k i would try it....i just am skeptical of anything beating what i am using currently by more than 5%.