sandyk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, gmgraves said: JRiver has always had a steep learning curve, and has been very arcane with essentially no help from JRiver’s creators. That’s why I stopped using it. As annoying and low-Fi as iTunes was, at least it was fairly intuitive and easy for just about anyone to use. Agreed, however , it's capable of very high quality Audio playback when correctly set up. Mike Rubin 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
gmgraves Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, sandyk said: Agreed, however , it's capable of very high quality Audio playback when correctly set up. Very true. George Link to comment
Popular Post jabbr Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Rexp said: OP is correct, why bother with DSD upsampling when only .001% of the population use or will ever use it. 99.9% of the population use it. The argument is fallacious. No matter. Use whatever software you prefer. manueljenkin, semente, 4est and 2 others 2 2 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
Popular Post 4est Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 hour ago, jabbr said: 99.9% of the population use it. The argument is fallacious. No matter. Use whatever software you prefer. I always find humor that so many people don't realize that the vast majority of DACs internally convert to SDM/DSD, or in Alex's case, cannot seem to accept that simple tidbit of truth. But yes, people should use whatever software they prefer regardless. Jud and Teresa 1 1 Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, 4est said: I always find humor that so many people don't realize that the vast majority of DACs internally convert to SDM/DSD, or in Alex's case, cannot seem to accept that simple tidbit of truth. But yes, people should use whatever software they prefer regardless. Well implemented native DSD/SDM and PCM/R2R DACs can both sound great. The native SDM DAC is more cost effective and the upsampling to high bitrate PCM is more cost effective. Alex doesn’t have access to a fast workstation or reasonably good gaming computer so depends on DSP chips. That said great DSP chips are in mass production eg the Apple AirPods and can have very nice sound! I wonder what percentage of the world is currently listening to AirPods and not reading this thread? 99.x decimal points? semente and Rexp 1 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
ericuco Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, 4est said: I always find humor that so many people don't realize that the vast majority of DACs internally convert to SDM/DSD, or in Alex's case, cannot seem to accept that simple tidbit of truth. But yes, people should use whatever software they prefer regardless. Years ago, everyone seemed concerned about getting “bit perfect” data to the DAC. Then someone asked a silly question about what is the DAC doing with the data and found that most DAC’s manipulate the data (e.g. convert to SDM). From then on, you don’t hear much about “bit perfect” and more about software like HQ Player. Eric Audio System Link to comment
Popular Post Norton Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 hour ago, ericuco said: most DAC’s manipulate the data Surely that can’t be the case? Those with a “Scientific” approach tell us that all DACs sound the same. 4est, sandyk and semente 1 2 Link to comment
mfsoa Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 To some extent are we discussing the different digital filtering that the software does? Last I looked at JRiver I did not see how to get it off of a linear phase filter. So it sounded really hard and sterile. Can the digital filters be changed in JRiver? IMO it is difficult to dissect differences between players when the pink elephant of digital filtering is hiding behind the speaker. Link to comment
Rexp Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 3 hours ago, jabbr said: 99.9% of the population use it. The argument is fallacious. No matter. Use whatever software you prefer. Seems like I have to spell it out for you, 99.9% will never use a software player (thread topic) to upsample. sandyk 1 Link to comment
Popular Post jabbr Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, mfsoa said: To some extent are we discussing the different digital filtering that the software does? All DACs filter. 36 minutes ago, mfsoa said: Last I looked at JRiver I did not see how to get it off of a linear phase filter. So it sounded really hard and sterile. Can the digital filters be changed in JRiver? IMO it is difficult to dissect differences between players when the pink elephant of digital filtering is hiding behind the speaker. Not just classic filters but also modulators. Do you want to do the processing in a cheap IC, expensive IC, or in a computer? You can’t get away from filters— so pick your filters semente and 4est 2 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
Popular Post jabbr Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, Rexp said: Seems like I have to spell it out for you, 99.9% will never use a software player (thread topic) to upsample. Perhaps if the title were “best sounding crippled software player” it would be clearer to me. It’s curious that folks who get technically wrapped up in things like in memory OS and all sorts of details that 99.9999% of the world need not care about, are also entirely unconcerned with issues like modulators and filters which actually change the sound coming out of the speakers. In any case if you are subjectively comparing SQ of players then use the players as they are meant to be used. If we are comparing WTF vs HQPlayer ... I will assume that the installed base of HQPlayer is ?10,000x WTF? So what do these percentages mean? In any case use the software as intended not crippled. 4est and manueljenkin 1 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
manisandher Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 hours ago, jabbr said: All DACs filter. Ahem. Not all... Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, manisandher said: Ahem. Not all... Hopefully DACs at least have output filters Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 9 hours ago, 4est said: I always find humor that so many people don't realize that the vast majority of DACs internally convert to SDM/DSD, or in Alex's case, cannot seem to accept that simple tidbit of truth. But yes, people should use whatever software they prefer regardless. You are twisting my words and that of others,to justify what you and a select group of members are doing here with the use of high powered PCs and specialised paid S/W to upsample everything to a much higher frequency. Can others like Teresa or myself for that matter, readily do this with our existing typical equipment including most Laptops ? NO !! Is there any major benefit to the typical consumer in doing this ? NO !!! As Rexp said : Quote why bother with DSD upsampling when only .001% of the population use or will ever use it. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post jabbr Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, sandyk said: You are twisting my words and that of others,to justify what you and a select group of members are doing here with the use of high powered PCs and specialised paid S/W to upsample everything to a much higher frequency. Whether you choose to do that is your choice, just as whether to use a particular cable or power supply or really any pice of equipment. The fact that the software is paid or not should not be of concern — do you expect the ISO Regen to be free, or a particular cable? Do you even use Linux or Windows? I use Linux extensively and support its use in audio. Comparing Linux audio distributions such as Audiolinux, wtfplayer, Sonic orbiter and a handful of others including NAA could be a reasonable comparison of similar functions. Quote Can others like Teresa or myself for that matter, readily do this with our existing typical equipment including most Laptops ? NO !! Is there any major benefit to the typical consumer in doing this ? NO !!! There is no benefit to the typical consumer in doing anything we do here. The software is a bargain that actually does something as opposed to other things we spend our money on. In any case you ought not criticize something you admit you haven’t done and have no experience with. Any frankly HQPlayer is not the only software package that upsample, for example XXHE, Roon etc ... manueljenkin, DuckToller and 4est 1 1 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 9 hours ago, jabbr said: Alex doesn’t have access to a fast workstation or reasonably good gaming computer so depends on DSP chips. Yet I am still getting way better sounding Audio than the vast majority of members by correcting deficiencies in other areas that matter more. In fact, it is more than good enough for me to assist John Dyson in his DNHRDS project on the listening side of it with feedback from me since March last year from me that John has acted on in numerous occasions. This suggests that my implementation here is more than good enough to pinpoint tiny differences of a fraction of a dB that many are unable to hear, without the need for an expensive high powered computer to upsample everything to DSD daverich4 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, sandyk said: Yet I am still getting way better sounding Audio than the vast majority of members by correcting deficiencies in other areas that matter more. That’s a rather strange conclusion: how do you presume to say that you get way better sound than the vast majority of members here? That is extraordinarily presumptuous and entirely without basis. You have no way of knowing what an approach may do or not, what filters do or don’t and what modulators do or don’t. You have no experience. Of course everything above modifies the bits entering the DAC and I know you prefer to stick with approaches that don’t have an effect on bits. Just so. Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, jabbr said: Whether you choose to do that is your choice, just as whether to use a particular cable or power supply or really any pice of equipment. The fact that the software is paid or not should not be of concern — do you expect the ISO Regen to be free, or a particular cable? Do you even use Linux or Windows? You are trying to justify the use of much more additional expense to obtain the results that your equipment should be already capable of revealing. We shouldn't need to use Iso Regens or expensive aftermarket USB cables etc. either. Neither do I use USB for the same reasons as you avoid it , with you preferring to use an ultra wide bandwidth Optical link that most people couldn't justify the expense of. I use Windows 10/64 which is more than able to reveal subtleties without the need for Linux etc. if the rest of your gear is good enough. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 58 minutes ago, jabbr said: That’s a rather strange conclusion: how do you presume to say that you get way better sound than the vast majority of members here? That is extraordinarily presumptuous and entirely witut basis. Apparently, unlike many here, I was able to hear and clearly describe the differences between 16/44.1 and 24/96 in favour of 24/96 that most were unable to hear with the Frederic V X and Y test samples , as well as that other area that you refuse to accept, despite the series of correctly performed DBTs . I noticed also your visits to MY Profile to see what I was doing in that area to achieve the improved results that I obtained., where you didn't seem to find too much wrong technically with what I was doing in that area to obtain them. http://klinktbeter.be/hushhush/x.wavhttp://klinktbeter.be/hushhush/y.wav How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, jabbr said: Of course everything above modifies the bits entering the DAC and I know you prefer to stick with approaches that don’t have an effect on bits. Just so. In my experience, every time you use S/W to convert to different formats , or process a file further , there is a minor penalty to be paid in the SQ area due to the electrical noise generated by less than perfect power supplies ,where the most obvious example is conversion to and from .flac , especially when done "on the fly" as many other members have reported, including Cookie Marenco from Blue Coast Records who records these days in your preferred DSD format, with unless I am mistaken, some mastering still done using LPCM ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 10 hours ago, ericuco said: Years ago, everyone seemed concerned about getting “bit perfect” data to the DAC. It may come as a surprise to you, but the vast majority of A.S. members still appear to be fixated about Bit Perfect S/W and Bit Perfect CD rips. One single Muted error due to a minor CD imperfection isn't going to change how the whole track sounds. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, sandyk said: In my experience, every time you use S/W to convert to different formats , or process a file further , there is a minor penalty to be paid in the SQ area due to the electrical noise generated by less than perfect power supplies ,where the most obvious example is conversion to and from .flac , especially when done "on the fly" as many other members have reported, That’s where not only are you wrong but admit that you have no experience with software such as HQPlayer or XXHE — so you continue to “say stuff” with no experience. You bandy about the term “electrical noise” without actual experience, neither subjective nor objective. I suspect that you have no experience with Linux either, so neither wtfplay nor audiolinux etc. You know Linux the actually free OS that everyone can use. Why are you even commenting here? sandyk and manueljenkin 1 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, jabbr said: Why are you even commenting here? Why are you even commenting here? The initial post in this thread was about differences between normal CD S/W players, and never about the diversion to additional DSD upsampling using high powered Processors etc. that has resulted. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted May 11, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, sandyk said: Why are you even commenting here? The initial post in this thread was about differences between normal CD S/W players, and never about the diversion to additional DSD upsampling using high powered Processors etc. that has resulted. I'm having a hard time understanding why someone sharing their first hand knowledge of a subject bothers you so much. 4est, daverich4, jabbr and 3 others 5 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 29 minutes ago, kumakuma said: I'm having a hard time understanding why someone sharing their first hand knowledge of a subject bothers you so much. It doesn't . However, it is off the original topic , and there are more suitable threads to discuss the niche upsampling of all music to DSD such as https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/, or another thread can be started on this subject. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
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