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Audiophile USB-outputs are overestimated - Roon Nucleus USB-output can be enough


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Hi all,

 

for a long time I was very happy with my SPDIF source Raspberry Pi with Allo DigiOne and moOde, but the UI of moOde has some limits. So I decide to switch to Roon. Another point was, I see some limits of a synchronus protocol like SPDIF, a "bit perfect signal" seams to be easier reachable with an asynchronous protocol like USB, which allows an error correction (copyping files via USB is in practice typically bit perfect). So I was searching for a "high quality USB-source", which brings me to e.g. "Allo USBridge Sig" for 300 bucks ... without the Roon Server. My favourite Roon Server is a Roon Nucleus, which costs here in Switzerland 1800.- Swiss Francs (approx = Euros) ... OUPS.

 

So .. now I come to the point 😉

 

In case of you have a good DAC with galvanic isolation (I think most the people in this forum have something like that), the quality of USB-output I think "is not so important". Because of the asynchronous USB-protocol, the DAC must anyway do a re-clocking of the signal by its own, so e.g. Jitter is the problem of the DAC, not the problem of the USB-output. The USB-output must "be only good enough" to deliver a bit perfect USB-signal. I have a Chord Qutest, which have like most of Chord DACs an USB galvanic isolation and because of Rob Watts technology jitter is not an issue. So, which is USB-outpout should I choose? I'm big fan of the Roon Nucleus, which can be also "work as a USB-output", not as an "Audiophile USB-output" (it's a PC), but with a Chord Qutest this seems to be not a problem. The bigger problem is the price of a Roon Nucleus, 1800 bucks is too much for a "fanless Intel NUC" (the Nucleus is nothing else). So I decided to build my "own Nucleus":
 

  • Intel NUC Baby Canyon NUC7i3BNH (PC hardware of the Nucleus for 300 bucks, same price as a Allo USBridge Sig!)
  • some additional parts are needed to: 8 GB RAM and a SSD for Roon Operating System (together 100.-)
  • Akasa Newton S7: matching aluminium fanless case for the Intel NUC above (another 100.-)
  • the best: Roon Nucleus OS = Roon ROCK can be downloaded for free, see Roon ROCK - get started
  • clear ... Roon license you have to pay, like a original Roon Nucleus

 

So, for 500 bucks I can get a "perfect fanless Roon Server in an aluminium case", which can direct deliver an USB-output for my Chord Qutest ... PERFECT, that's what I need!

So, that's what I did 👍 ... and maybe I can inspire some of you to think about "where should my money go" ... into "Audiophile USB-outputs" or into "more useful stuff" (my opinion).

 

20-04-25-018_DxO.thumb.jpg.dfef959a9c4da08406d72f2ddc00ce07.jpg

 

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Hi zackthedog, hi vortecjr,

some comments to your points:

  • I have compared my NUC with my previous "Audiphile SPDIF-output" (Pi & Digione), result: I couldn't hear any difference
  • I didn't compare it with an original Nucleus, because I don't have one. But I don't expect a difference, because:
     - HW is the same (Nucleus is a i3 NUC, Nucleus+ is a i7 NUC (see YouTube)
     - SW is the same: Roon ROCK
  • I agree: USBridge Sig has for sure a better USB signal. But depending on the DAC, does it make "at the end" on the DAC analog output any difference? ... that's the big question! Because of Qutests galvanic isolation, "cleaner" is (maybe) useless and because of Qutests re-clocking "jitter" too
  • My NUC is running 24/7. So there is no need, that my "normal PC" have to run when I listen to music. Btw: my wife is using this Roon Server too on her iMac
  • My NUC is powered by a Sbooster power supply

Conclusion:

I really understand your points, I think the MOST important thing is the DAC! Depending on the DAC, the qualitiy of the DAC digital inputs maybe doesn't matter (bit perfect signal possibility required). That's why I wrote in the headline " ... Roon Nucleus USB-output CAN be enough". In case of my setup, it IS enough 😉

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Hi chauphoung,

but not only output is important, connected DAC is relevant too (in my opinion DAC is more important) !

 

There is another important thing: the complete signal path

  • with an "Audiophile USB-output" you have the perfect connection to your DAC: I agree. But what is with the rest of your signal path? Typically it goes via a noisy home network, or did you spend hundrets/thousands of bucks for audiophile switches, microRendus, ...  the complete signal path is relevant for sound quality!
  • combination Roon + USBridge Sig: as I known you can only setup a RoonReady signal path with Ropiee, with e.g. moOde you can't. The forums are full of posts about connection problems, dropouts, ...
  • other RoonReady endpoints like SOtM sMS-200 have noisy DC-DC converters inside too
  • my setup has the "simpliest RoonReady signal path" you can have! It's running for two month now, without any dropouts or other connection problems

688826117_SignalPathQutest.png.4136bb9db4c13cb94771df168954dc31.png

 

 

Roon Nucleus is known as an "Audiophile Music Server"

  • Read the White Paper
  • a fanless NUC with Roon ROCK is a Nucleus (if correct NUC board is selected)
  • especially in case of powered by a linear power supply like a Sbooster
    (attention. NUCs 7th generation can be powered by Sbooster, NUCs 8th generation not)
  • network connection of my NUC is also galvanic isolated with a Pink Faun LAN Isolator

With all my thoughts about signal path and Nucleus improvements, I think the Nucleus USB-output delivers a really good USB signal for a good DAC! Regards Tom

 

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First off I use Roon for playback of my digital media. Still own a very good record player and many albums so have a good reference. 

Think a very important point that needs to made first is how does your DAC sound best?

I started with an older tube diy hack Dac I built ages ago. For it my DigiOne signature was the only choice via coax spdif.

 

Then came the Allo Katana great device. The Shanti is a worthwhile upgrade or another good quality PS. Wouldn’t spend more than what the Shanti is worth.

 

Then came into some money and bought a new dac. RME ADI-2. Due to good experience with previous Allo products just bought a USBridge sig to run it connected via USB. Then after having some driver issues with the USBridge I discover that the ADI-2 sounds better on a PC running Asio drivers in Native mode for DSD playback. Further research reveals some DAC will also support Native mode DSD in Linux.

 

nothing ever gets easier for the Audiophile LOL

 

stay safe

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I did some power consumption measurements to see how "well" my Sbooster together with my Intel NUC does operate. First of all a tip: use the 18V setting on a Sbooster 18/19V, because NUCs can operate from 12-19V and Sbooster delivers more power at 18V, see Sbooster specification:

  • 18 Volt: max 2.25 Ampere = 40.50 Watt
  • 19 Volt: max 1.85 Ampere = 35.15 Watt   (5 Watt less!)

My NUC has the following specification:

  • Intel NUC Baby Canyon NUC7i3BNH, fanless with Akasa Newton S7 case
  • 16 GB Corsair Vengeance RAM (2x 8 GB)
  • 250 GB Samsung 860 EVO M.2 SSD (Roon ROCK with Database)
  • 2000 GB Samsung 860 EVO Basic 2.5'' SSD (music files)

I made myself a tool, which allows exact measurements with the "Sbooster cable system":

20-05-01-018_DxO.thumb.jpg.9123a684838b6332400a8a87080cc938.jpg

 

Together with the Fluke 115, which has a Minimum, Maximum and Average value functionality, I measured the following results at 18.2 Volt with Chord Qutest connected via USB (test intervals 1-3 minutes):

  • Booting NUC (only a few seconds): 1.0 Ampere (maximum)
  • Roon Idle (no music playing): 0.36 Ampere (average)
  • Playing music 192 kHz, 24 bit on local USB DAC Qutest:
    0.45 Ampere (average), 0.53 Ampere (maximum)
  • Playing three independent 192 kHz, 24 bit music streams (USB DAC + 2 network endpoints):
    0.52 Ampere (average), 0.79 Ampere (maximum)
  • Importing music into Roon library, import setting "Fast (1 core)":
    0.68 Ampere (average), 0.99 Ampere (maximum = copy & import file)

Really interesting, during the whole two hours measurements, I never saw a value > 1.0 Ampere. So, the NUC consumes never more than 20 Watts! It seems to be a "low power" music server, so hopefully "less noisy" 😉

 

 

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I have had the opposite experience as the OP in my system with my ears.  When I added a Digione Signature, it was the cleanest sound I had ever experienced, especially with a high quality silver digital cable.  I have a DIY music server going into my Verizon fios router, and then into the Digione - yes, probably more to optimize here, but even with this setup my system sounds better than I've ever heard. 

 

I like the Digone Sig much more than my SMS-200 neo, although that endpoint is not being fed from a linear power source, which is also hugely important - I am very glad for having bought the Shanti along with the Digione Sig. 

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Hi WilliamWykeham,

 

which DAC do you have?
Same DAC tried with Digione Sig and/or SMS-200 Neo?

Attention: what makes really the difference? The output quality of these two endpoints or the quality of the two different digital inputs of your DAC (SPDIF vs USB)?

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Hi @WiliamWykeham, wow... great DAC.
But now I‘m confused. In your first post you talked about „cleanest sound with Digione Sig“ and silver cable (which means SPDIF) and in your second post you talked about „USB regarded as best input“, also with a silver cable (which means USB) ... ?

Please clarify: which input of your Denafrips Terminator with which connected device delivers the best sound (your opinion) ?

 

Or do you mean „USBridge Sig“ instead of „Digione Sig“ ?

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  • 1 month later...

And really, for the first time in years I feel that my audio setup is "finished".

 

Pssst, that's the official statement for my wife 😁 ... my statement is more like:

 

And really, for the first time in years I feel that my audio setup is "finished" ... for now !

 

That's clear, I want to say/explain for "a few years". I really enjoy my system at the moment, so there is actually no need to spend more money in other devices 👍 ... and I really enjoy the situation "having no pressure to seek the next improvements".

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