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nikolaos1969

Rpi4 playback DSD files

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2 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

What app do you use for volumio.

Nikolaos, thanks for the picture, 😉
Volumio would be used via http, which means you could use any browser  on the same network with the input volumio.local in the browser address line, alternatively the volumio IP-Address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx in the specific network. You can use the browser interface for configuration and for standard usage. Works with any device in your network (Phone/Tablet/PC).

If you want to use an app, Bubble UPNP may be the one of choice, if you laptop is on, you could use this as storage device via wifi/ethernet. It is helpful to read a bit about UPNP, for example

not fully new, but very good for the basis
SystemFour.png&key=46668d24fe3055f6071a3d528e355e43bcadb5c23c013a4d73821b866836f094

you need to understand some of the terms: Renderer, Control point, NAS, Media Server:

NAS: any storage in the network, which can be accessed via IP connection, best 24/7.  Your USB hard disk, network enabled
Control point: any device capable of HTTP based control in the IP network. Your phone/tablet via http/browser
Media server: Holds the media software, can hold the storage, can be control point , too. Your RPi with Volumio
Media Renderer: Device that puts out the signal out to your chain, in your case it would be your RPi  with Volumio(in case of picture, this could be a TV)

Hope thats helps a bit, Tom
 

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9 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Nikolaos, thanks for the picture, 😉
Volumio would be used via http, which means you could use any browser  on the same network with the input volumio.local in the browser address line, alternatively the volumio IP-Address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx in the specific network. You can use the browser interface for configuration and for standard usage. Works with any device in your network (Phone/Tablet/PC).

If you want to use an app, Bubble UPNP may be the one of choice, if you laptop is on, you could use this as storage device via wifi/ethernet. It is helpful to read a bit about UPNP, for example

not fully new, but very good for the basis
SystemFour.png&key=46668d24fe3055f6071a3d528e355e43bcadb5c23c013a4d73821b866836f094

you need to understand some of the terms: Renderer, Control point, NAS, Media Server:

NAS: any storage in the network, which can be accessed via IP connection, best 24/7.  Your USB hard disk, network enabled
Control point: any device capable of HTTP based control in the IP network. Your phone/tablet via http/browser
Media server: Holds the media software, can hold the storage, can be control point , too. Your RPi with Volumio
Media Renderer: Device that puts out the signal out to your chain, in your case it would be your RPi  with Volumio(in case of picture, this could be a TV)

Hope thats helps a bit, Tom
@DuckTollerthanks Tom

 

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On 4/23/2020 at 1:05 AM, DuckToller said:

Nikolaos, thanks for the picture, 😉
Volumio would be used via http, which means you could use any browser  on the same network with the input volumio.local in the browser address line, alternatively the volumio IP-Address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx in the specific network. You can use the browser interface for configuration and for standard usage. Works with any device in your network (Phone/Tablet/PC).

If you want to use an app, Bubble UPNP may be the one of choice, if you laptop is on, you could use this as storage device via wifi/ethernet. It is helpful to read a bit about UPNP, for example

not fully new, but very good for the basis
SystemFour.png&key=46668d24fe3055f6071a3d528e355e43bcadb5c23c013a4d73821b866836f094

you need to understand some of the terms: Renderer, Control point, NAS, Media Server:

NAS: any storage in the network, which can be accessed via IP connection, best 24/7.  Your USB hard disk, network enabled
Control point: any device capable of HTTP based control in the IP network. Your phone/tablet via http/browser
Media server: Holds the media software, can hold the storage, can be control point , too. Your RPi with Volumio
Media Renderer: Device that puts out the signal out to your chain, in your case it would be your RPi  with Volumio(in case of picture, this could be a TV)

Hope thats helps a bit, Tom
 

thanks a lot. Mainly I convert old CDs to FLAC or WAV using Exact Audio Copy or download from rutracker.

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On 4/22/2020 at 2:50 PM, stefano_mbp said:

You missed my post #36

Hi Stefano, are you happy with SOtM SMS-200 Neo, which software do you use?

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On 4/22/2020 at 10:48 PM, bluesman said:

You’re jumping all over the place in this thread. You started by saying that you want to listen to Spotify.  If so, you don’t need any storage to stream from the internet.  You could just use the Spotify app on your laptop or a Pi - you don’t need Volumio.  But you also said that you want to play DSD files.  Unless it changed, Spotify doesn’t stream DSD files - so you need storage for those files somewhere on your network.  They can be on NAS, on a hard drive in or connected to the computer that’s playing them, or on other removable storage media you can connect to that computer.

 

You’re already using a laptop to play music, so you must either have files now or be streaming Spotify or some other web service.  You said in an early post that you wanted to get rid of your USB connection between computer and amplifier.  But that can’t be done because USB is the only input on your amp that will play DSD or DoP.  So why not just keep using the laptop?  Are you playing your own files now?  If so, where are they - on the laptop?

 

If you don’t want to continue playing music from your laptop, a Pi 4 is a great music machine.  Put the Pi on your network by Ethernet or by WiFi.  If you want to have your own DSD files and you have a local network now, I’d add a basic NAS to it on Ethernet. Put the Pi on your network by Ethernet or by WiFi.  Put Volumio on your Raspberry Pi 4, add Spotify as a web stream, connect the Pi to your amplifier by USB, and you’re ready to listen to Spotify (assuming your local network is connected to the internet) and to your own music files.

 

You’re making this much too complicated.

Hi, are you happy with foobar2000

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20 hours ago, bluesman said:

I've used and loved it for about 15 years.  It's an outstanding package, although it requires more fiddling than JRiver, Roon etc. Foobar pioneered many of the features we now take for granted in audio players.  It was one of the first such programs to let you stream over the internet from your own server.  To make the most of it, you have to use the many plug-ins that have been developed for it.  But once you master the ins and outs, there's almost nothing you can't do with it.

 

Even though I use JRiver and Roon, I still use Foobar to rip my CDs.  I don't think the sound quality is any better than most other top quality players from MPD to Roon and beyond, but it's as good as any open source player I've used on any platform.  Library management is a bit clunky, but it handles my 10,000 or so without a problem. It does album art well too.

 

Foobar was developed as a Windows program, but they now have a MacOs beta too.  If you want to run it on Linux, you have to do so on WINE (which works well & I've done it for years - but I wouldn't use it on a Linux box because there are other players that are a lot easier than running Foobar on WINE - and their GUIs are more intuitive in my opinion).  As far as I know, you can't run Foobar2000 on an ARM processor yet - so it's not for a Raspberry Pi.

Thanks for the reply, I have used foobar2000 to playback from external disc on my laptop via USB cable to amp. I have installed the necessary plugins for DSD. Foobar2000 playback DSD files but actually as you can see from the attached file the amp control panel screen discovers ASIO active (PCM mode) instead of DSD mode (I do not know if that seems to be a problem). I find the same with you problems of clunky library management and the foobar2000 controller. I have downloaded Jriver and the library management is more stable and more reliable. I have not tested the app.

20200328_163011[1].jpg

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16 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

I configured it to use MPD/dlna. I like it a lot, it is essential and the sound is going better every new firmware release. SOtM is a very careful company with a very good support and releases new firmware updates every 3/4 months.

My choice for MPD over LMS/Squeezelite is mainly due to the availability for MPD of a lot of control point apps (I choose Lumin app) that in conjunction with MinimServer can show a lot of metadata to choose what to play from my local library (I listen mainly classical music and this genre requires the availability of many tags to find exactly what to play).

Last but not least I have also two rpi4 configured with GentooPlayer and MPD enabled and I can manage them all with the same app.

Hi Stefano, so via MPD you can manage 2 rpi4 but with which app ? I mainly listen to minimal music and my favorite musician is Rene Aubry, Emanuele Via, Max Richter, etc. would you recommend sMS-200ultra ?

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21 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

I use Lumïn app. Due to recent Lumïn app update I had to install Bubbleupnpserver to maintain compatibility between the app and SOtM and raspberry/GentooPlayer and all is working fine. As a SOtM sms-200 user I can recommend it without any doubt, but I’m using the Neo version and not the Ultra, the Ultra is three times more expensive than the Neo and I cannot guarantee it is three times better. I think the Neo is very well balanced in price/performances terms.

ok, thanks, do you download music files from an internet server or just playback from CDs

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On 4/25/2020 at 5:25 PM, nikolaos1969 said:

so via MPD you can manage 2 rpi4 but with which app ?

There are several MPD clients for mobile devices as well as x86 and Mac boxes.  You can register multiple MPD servers in apps like yaMPC and Rigelian, and select the one(s) you want to control from the server list.  Just Google MPD clients and you’ll get many good hits.

 

Many of the best ones from the early days of MPD are no longer available, but a new crop is in.  MPoD is apparently back for iPhone & iPad, and I have MPDPlayer on my iPad.  I use Cantata to evaluate audio hardware & software using MPD. But it’s now in bug-fix-only mode and will probably not be updated in the future. The developer is moving on to new things.

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3 hours ago, bluesman said:

There are several MPD clients for mobile devices as well as x86 and Mac boxes.  You can register multiple MPD servers in apps like yaMPC and Rigelian, and select the one(s) you want to control from the server list.  Just Google MPD clients and you’ll get many good hits.

 

Many of the best ones from the early days of MPD are no longer available, but a new crop is in.  MPoD is apparently back for iPhone & iPad, and I have MPDPlayer on my iPad.  I use Cantata to evaluate audio hardware & software using MPD. But it’s now in bug-fix-only mode and will probably not be updated in the future. The developer is moving on to new things.

thanks a lot, did you read #57 post and the attached file? Do you think that might be a problem control panel screen discovers ASIO active (PCM mode) instead of DSD mode

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2 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

thanks a lot, did you read #57 post and the attached file? Do you think that might be a problem control panel screen discovers ASIO active (PCM mode) instead of DSD mode

DSD files are converted to DoP from Foobar2000. That’s why you’re seeing the PCM mode. There’s a way to play iso files ripped from SACDs, but it’s complicated and requires at least 1 more plug-in.  I’ve never done it. AFAIK, DoP should produce the same SQ as native DSD on the same system.

 

The superaudio plugin for Foobar2000 may also do native DSD, but I don’t remember and haven’t tried.  If it does, it probably plays dsf files.

 

I think you should slow down a bit and spend some time listening to what you have, before adding or changing anything. Your long list of questions suggests that you have several options right now.  Put some time and effort into comparing them all with the same program material. Listen, learn, and make notes so you can remember your responses to each alternative.  Your choices will probably become obvious to you when you review your observations.

 

This is part of the great enjoyment most of us get from our audiophile efforts. Enjoy!

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1 hour ago, bluesman said:

DSD files are converted to DoP from Foobar2000. That’s why you’re seeing the PCM mode. There’s a way to play iso files ripped from SACDs, but it’s complicated and requires at least 1 more plug-in.  I’ve never done it. AFAIK, DoP should produce the same SQ as native DSD on the same system.

 

The superaudio plugin for Foobar2000 may also do native DSD, but I don’t remember and haven’t tried.  If it does, it probably plays dsf files.

 

I think you should slow down a bit and spend some time listening to what you have, before adding or changing anything. Your long list of questions suggests that you have several options right now.  Put some time and effort into comparing them all with the same program material. Listen, learn, and make notes so you can remember your responses to each alternative.  Your choices will probably become obvious to you when you review your observations.

 

This is part of the great enjoyment most of us get from our audiophile efforts. Enjoy!

@bluesmanthanks, well that is very interesting because Jriver converts the same song to DoP. That means if the rate is DSD 128 to convert it to DoP you need at least 352.8kHz while native DSD128 requires a bandwidth of just 176.4kHz. Which means I can not play DSD 256. Of cource I do no think I could hear the differences on my medium hifi system. I will try AFAIK and superaudio plugin. Tomorrow I will get rpi4 and install volumio and I will come back to you with my first impression. From where is your music source?

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On 4/28/2020 at 12:24 AM, bluesman said:

DSD files are converted to DoP from Foobar2000. That’s why you’re seeing the PCM mode. There’s a way to play iso files ripped from SACDs, but it’s complicated and requires at least 1 more plug-in.  I’ve never done it. AFAIK, DoP should produce the same SQ as native DSD on the same system.

 

The superaudio plugin for Foobar2000 may also do native DSD, but I don’t remember and haven’t tried.  If it does, it probably plays dsf files.

 

I think you should slow down a bit and spend some time listening to what you have, before adding or changing anything. Your long list of questions suggests that you have several options right now.  Put some time and effort into comparing them all with the same program material. Listen, learn, and make notes so you can remember your responses to each alternative.  Your choices will probably become obvious to you when you review your observations.

 

This is part of the great enjoyment most of us get from our audiophile efforts. Enjoy!

Hi, I installed successfully on my network volumio but it seems to be a problem mounting a share file on my main drive C:. If my share file name is \\LAPTOP\Music1969, on the field Alias: an independent name, NAS IP Address: LAPTOP, Path: Music1969, File Share type: cifs, Username: LAPTOP, then save. Volumio asks for a password but I did not tick the option for a password in the network.

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12 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi, I installed successfully on my network volumio but it seems to be a problem mounting a share file on my main drive C:. If my share file name is \\LAPTOP\Music1969, on the field Alias: an independent name, NAS IP Address: LAPTOP, Path: Music1969, File Share type: cifs, Username: LAPTOP, then save. Volumio asks for a password but I did not tick the option for a password in the network.

It’s probably your NAS that wants a password. Set up a user account on it for Volumio and use those credentials in Volumio to connect your Pi to it.  You can use your admin account credentials to access the NAS, but this is not good practice.

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2 minutes ago, bluesman said:

It’s probably your NAS that wants a password. Set up a user account on it for Volumio and use those credentials to connect your Pi to it in Volumio.  You can use your admin account credentials to access the NAS, but this is not good practice.

I do not have a NAS. Is it possible to set up a NAS for my external disc TOSHIBA 2T?

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13 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

If my share file name is \\LAPTOP\Music1969, on the field Alias: an independent name, NAS IP Address: LAPTOP, Path: Music1969, File Share type: cifs, Username: LAPTOP, then save

I do not have a NAS”????  I’ve tried hard to help you, but I really think you need to find someone where you are to get you started.  With all possible respect and the clear understanding that you want to learn about all this, I must suggest that you’ve confused yourself terribly by trying to learn everything at once.

 

From your last post, it now looks to me like you tried to enter your laptop’s name as a proxy for the IP address of a NAS because you don’t have a NAS.  This won’t work.  A laptop is not a NAS and your network can’t access its drive this way.

 

Do yourself a big favor and find someone to teach you how all this works.  There are courses and workshops available through many retailers.  But the participants on a web forum cannot do this for you.  Slow down and try to learn each step before you move on to the next.  Your enthusiasm is great, but it’s getting in the way of your learning.

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my experience from rpi4 as a streamer with volumio software is that definitely there is a noise "tsik" coming from speakers playback either FLAC or DSD files compare to USB cable from laptop to amp using foobar2000 or Jriver. Then the first question is that if rpi4 produces jitter adding extra devices, linear power supply, usb isolator e.t.c. will absorb the noice? Is it worth to invest in extra devices to clear the noice or purchase a different streamer. Mounting external disc HDD to volumio sometimes there is a delay - 500 GB - but I do not know if that delay comes from rpi4 or volumio. If I use DLNA/windows media server there is no delay but then a few songs does not appear -DLNA/windows is not very stable-. So, I decided to set up a synology NAS DS 118.

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1 hour ago, nikolaos1969 said:

my experience from rpi4 as a streamer with volumio software is that definitely there is a noise "tsik" coming from speakers playback either FLAC or DSD files compare to USB cable from laptop to amp using foobar2000 or Jriver. Then the first question is that if rpi4 produces jitter adding extra devices, linear power supply, usb isolator e.t.c. will absorb the noice? Is it worth to invest in extra devices to clear the noice or purchase a different streamer. Mounting external disc HDD to volumio sometimes there is a delay - 500 GB - but I do not know if that delay comes from rpi4 or volumio. If I use DLNA/windows media server there is no delay but then a few songs does not appear -DLNA/windows is not very stable-. So, I decided to set up a synology NAS DS 118.

Hi niko,.
I remember having a hiss plus some RFI in the tweeter using the RPI3b with KHADAS DAC last sommer (unsing a CLASS D amplifier and sdome active A/B  drivem speakers).
I encountered some noise problems not only with RPI and  identified/solved these problems like this:
1.) The mouse attached to my 2nd streamer (that was connected to the preamp) as well which audibly forwarded RFI. I disconnected it.
2.) The old screen I use from time to time when the headless connect does not work. 
3.).I disconnected the my Uptone Regen from  that 2nd streamer (inl. meanwell PU and curious cable)
4.) I exchanged the USB cable (used an older QED instead of Supra Cable)
5.) For the RPI 3b,  I changed to an iFi power plug, which solved the most audible artefacts in the active speakers.

HINT:  For the RPi I had WiFi disabled and were using only ethernet connection to Router/NAS or Online Streaming by Qobuz and a 128GB usb stick.
If you use online streaming like Tidal or Qobuz, you can verify if your noise problem can be limited to the use of USB sourced playing. That info may be sufficient for your future NAS decision.
For future post: Please let the people from which you expect answers now already at the start of the post how your config is set up (and afterwards what you changed), just  to avoid unnecessary questions like: Do you use WiFi ? Which DLNA server from which unit  ??  ... 
 
Personally, I had decided last summer to use PiCore Player software with my RPi3b which allowed me to play DSD256 over ethernet and USB.  You can find the set up description in the Summerbreeze artcile:

cheers, Tom

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6 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Hi niko,.
I remember having a hiss plus some RFI in the tweeter using the RPI3b with KHADAS DAC last sommer (unsing a CLASS D amplifier and sdome active A/B  drivem speakers).
I encountered some noise problems not only with RPI and  identified/solved these problems like this:
1.) The mouse attached to my 2nd streamer (that was connected to the preamp) as well which audibly forwarded RFI. I disconnected it.
2.) The old screen I use from time to time when the headless connect does not work. 
3.).I disconnected the my Uptone Regen from  that 2nd streamer (inl. meanwell PU and curious cable)
4.) I exchanged the USB cable (used an older QED instead of Supra Cable)
5.) For the RPI 3b,  I changed to an iFi power plug, which solved the most audible artefacts in the active speakers.

HINT:  For the RPi I had WiFi disabled and were using only ethernet connection to Router/NAS or Online Streaming by Qobuz and a 128GB usb stick.
If you use online streaming like Tidal or Qobuz, you can verify if your noise problem can be limited to the use of USB sourced playing. That info may be sufficient for your future NAS decision.
For future post: Please let the people from which you expect answers now already at the start of the post how your config is set up (and afterwards what you changed), just  to avoid unnecessary questions like: Do you use WiFi ? Which DLNA server from which unit  ??  ... 
 
Personally, I had decided last summer to use PiCore Player software with my RPi3b which allowed me to play DSD256 over ethernet and USB.  You can find the set up description in the Summerbreeze artcile:

cheers, Tom

@DuckTollerthanks Tom, I playback music files on volumio either spotify or FLAC, DSD via ethernet. I will consider to use other software to rpi4. Did you find NAS better in terms of speed than external discs HDD attached to computer ? Which NAS has the most friendly software management system?

wish u better music days...and nights

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43 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

@DuckTollerthanks Tom, I playback music files on volumio either spotify or FLAC, DSD via ethernet. I will consider to use other software to rpi4. Did you find NAS better in terms of speed than external discs HDD attached to computer ? Which NAS has the most friendly software management system?

wish u better music days...and nights

Did you disable Wifi on The RPI ? Which HD do you have in use ?
For NAS, imho, software interfaces are always question of personal preference. Doesn't help a lot, I know ...
I had run a poll some month ago, looks like here Synolgy and QNAP are the preferred solutions, at Facebook, nearly 20 % were using MyCloud from WD. Hope that helps:
And for myself, I preferred my local USB stick to the UPnP/DLNA, especially with bigger files/DSD, though it was Scandfisk Ultra USB 3 Flash drive with up to 100 mbit/s.
- Your USB interface may be limited by the reading speed of your HD usb interface ?
- A limiting factor with the NAS could be the speed of your router ports.

- Even under Windows (from your Laptop) you may want to verify that you use minimum Fast Ethernet, better would be GigE.

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44 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Did you disable Wifi on The RPI ? Which HD do you have in use ?
For NAS, imho, software interfaces are always question of personal preference. Doesn't help a lot, I know ...
I had run a poll some month ago, looks like here Synolgy and QNAP are the preferred solutions, at Facebook, nearly 20 % were using MyCloud from WD. Hope that helps:
And for myself, I preferred my local USB stick to the UPnP/DLNA, especially with bigger files/DSD, though it was Scandfisk Ultra USB 3 Flash drive with up to 100 mbit/s.
- Your USB interface may be limited by the reading speed of your HD usb interface ?
- A limiting factor with the NAS could be the speed of your router ports.

- Even under Windows (from your Laptop) you may want to verify that you use minimum Fast Ethernet, better would be GigE.

@DuckTollerNo, I have not, so I have to disable it with raspbian pi imager for windows - burn on the sd card along with volumio the raspbian pi imager-, on the internet I find different ways to disable it. I use TOSHIBA HDD 3T external disc USB 3.0 on the USB 3.0 port of my HP Elitebook laptop (i5-8250U/8GB/SSD256GB/FHD/W10). Perhaps the unstable media DLNA server that windows use - for example DSD and loss Mp3 files do not appear using my media server from volumio and also that happens with app bubble UPnP-, but when I mount the external disc to volumio all my music files appear. I think if I change the server installing minimserver as @stefano_mbp suggests the problem of mounting and speed might disappear.

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2 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

No, I have not, so I have to disable it with raspbian pi imager for windows - burn on the sd card along with volumio the raspbian pi imager-, on the internet I find different ways to disable it.

- you may disable WiFi software sided with Volumio. If using PiCoPlayer, you also do it via menu. Alternatively use Google for the best way to do via SSH.
- For windows you may want to test Universal media server - very easy to use ... though it uses Java 
- As a controller Bubble for android 
- Did I understand correctly: you do not play HD directly from the RPI USB port but over DLNA/UPnP from your notebook, which means you have the note book's USB port and the notebook's Ethernet port and ethernet in and out on your router and finally the ethernet port and the USB out of your RPI on the way before arriving at the USB in of your amplifier.
- If everything is perfectly configured, that should not cause problems ...
- You may want to test if the same file from the internal SSD loads more quickly via DLNA than from the external disk... just for identifying bottlenecks ...
- or using the same file from an USB stick with the RPi ... in order to get some more precise pictures of your personal preferences
I do usually prefer the shortest signal path, also for digital files, but as I said that's a personal preference ... nowadays with high res streaming ...

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36 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

- you may disable WiFi software sided with Volumio. If using PiCoPlayer, you also do it via menu. Alternatively use Google for the best way to do via SSH.
- For windows you may want to test Universal media server - very easy to use ... though it uses Java 
- As a controller Bubble for android 
- Did I understand correctly: you do not play HD directly from the RPI USB port but over DLNA/UPnP from your notebook, which means you have the note book's USB port and the notebook's Ethernet port and ethernet in and out on your router and finally the ethernet port and the USB out of your RPI on the way before arriving at the USB in of your amplifier.
- If everything is perfectly configured, that should not cause problems ...
- You may want to test if the same file from the internal SSD loads more quickly via DLNA than from the external disk... just for identifying bottlenecks ...
- or using the same file from an USB stick with the RPi ... in order to get some more precise pictures of your personal preferences
I do usually prefer the shortest signal path, also for digital files, but as I said that's a personal preference ... nowadays with high res streaming ...

In the first place I connected to wifi volumio headless - from android phone s8 samsung - then I disable wifi volumio from phone and connected to router wireless. So, router port out---->ethernet cable cat6----> ethernet port in rpi4----->usb cable port out rpi4---->usb cable port in CXA81. No cables are connected to laptop to anywhere router, rpi4 or cxa81. Do I need to disable rpi4 wifi from volumio menu?

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