Rpi4 playback DSD files

[nikolaos1969]

I would like to playback DSD streaming from a RPi4 to CXA81 amp, https://cambridgeaudio.com/en/products/hi-fi/cx-series-2/cxa81

What would you suggest me to do.

thx

[DuckToller]

1 minute ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Do I need to disable rpi4 wifi from volumio menu?

you can, to find out if it helps you with the noise, if nothing changes in your perception, just leave it on for comfort
usuall, afaik, under settings / network 
 

[stefano_mbp]

You could install on rpi Volumio o MoOde or GentooPlayer (there is RuneAudio too but I never tried it)

Volumio and MoOde are MPD/Upmpdcli based

Gentooplayer is MPD/Upmpdcli based too but offers other solutions as LMS/Squeezelite

They can play dsd without any problem.
 

 

[bluesman]

As Stephano points out, you can use Moode, RuneAudio, or Volumio on your Pi.  Here's a link to my comparison review of multiple players and here's a link to the summary table of my observations - those 3 all did very well with DSD in my systems.  If by stream you mean play your own networked files, they're all excellent.  If you plan to stream from the internet, I thought that Moode made web streaming easier than the other two and Volumio was a bit easier than RuneAudio.  This may be a matter of taste in GUIs and work flows.  As none of them is bad at it, I'd try them all and see which you like best.

 

It may not matter to you, but there's one limitation to DSD in your amplifier (which is a very nice piece).  The DAC won't go above 256 for DSD or DoP, so you won't be able to play higher res files at their native resolution (which is not a big deal to me, but to each his own).  Other than that, any of those 3 players should make you very happy.

[DuckToller]

2 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi Tom, do you think that regarding DIGIONE I can operate two connections at the same time one for coaxial for FLAC and one for USB for DSD? But what about the noise that comes from RPi from the USB port?

This is a call for @ALLOaudio
You should contact them by mail or in their sponsored forum and verify how to use the bundle they offer and the software of choice for that specific case. (They offer moode, DietPi, volumio or max2play )
Best, Tom

[bluesman]

3 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi, I hope you have seen my answer to Stefano. Playback DSD via streaming over RPi4 USB input to amp?

The digipro will not let you play DSD files through your amplifier because that amp only does DSD via USB.  If DSD is your main concern, the hat will not do anything for you.  

 

3 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

until now I playback my files from my laptop (external disc) via USB hi res supra cable to my amp. But in order avoid cables my first thought was to set up a streamer

This is why I asked what you mean by "streaming".  If the cable you want to eliminate is between your player and the digital inputs on your amplifier, you can't do it.  The DAC in your amplifier cannot be accessed via WiFi, and it won't do DSD via Bluetooth.  So if you're going to do the same thing with a Pi that you do with your laptop, why not just use the laptop?

 

And if you just want to use a Pi as a standalone player instead of your laptop, I'd suggest just trying it first with your USB cable. I run several Pis directly into DACs and am not bothered at all by any noise or noise-induced degradation of sound quality - I simply don't hear it with the Pi 4s.  There are obviously AS participants who are greatly bothered by "USB noise", but neither I nor a lot of others here find it to be a significant concern in our systems.  Why make things more complicated than they need to be?

[bluesman]

5 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi, the reason to use pi4 as player: I want to stream spotify not via bluetooth but via volumio (bandwidth is larger)

I think you’re a bit confused. Bluetooth is a way to connect the output from your player to the input of your DAC/amplifier. Volumio is a software player that supplies digital audio program material to your DAC from your computer / player. It uses whatever connection you choose (BT, USB etc) - but your DAC/amplifier cannot play DSD files over Bluetooth or SPDIF. You have to use the USB input if you want to play DSD at its native rate - and it only does that up to DSD256 or DoP256. You’ll have to downsample 512+.

 

Volumio is great, and it will sound very good over the USB output from a Pi 4 into your amplifier.  It does Spotify well, so you should be happy with it if you’re happy with Spotify. But I don’t think Spotify has a DSD stream - you’d have to upsample the best they offer, and I don’t think that will give you the true DSD sound quality you seem to want.

[bluesman]

3 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

I will try to burn the usb drivers of CXA81 on pi4 sd card.

I don’t think you need USB drivers - USB 2 in all modern Linux variants is class compliant for audio & has been for years.  Your amplifier should accept input from any USB output on a current device with a current operating system.  If you put Volumio on a Pi 4 and connect its USB output to your amplifier’s input, you will get music.

[bluesman]

5 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

Using Volumio you have three options

usb connected hdd to the raspberry

lan connected nas

lan connected media server (MinimServer or other)

You have more options.  The Pi4 has 5 GHz ac WiFi. So wlan connection to either nas or to a network server (but not both) should be fine. My nas and my Roon server are on my lan via Ethernet, and I connect the Pi4 in our living room system via wlan. It sounds great using Volumio, Roon Bridge, or JRiver Media Center driving an SMSL SU8 into a PrimaLuna amplifier powering Focal 726 towers.  

[bluesman]

2 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi, are you happy with foobar2000

I've used and loved it for about 15 years.  It's an outstanding package, although it requires more fiddling than JRiver, Roon etc. Foobar pioneered many of the features we now take for granted in audio players.  It was one of the first such programs to let you stream over the internet from your own server.  To make the most of it, you have to use the many plug-ins that have been developed for it.  But once you master the ins and outs, there's almost nothing you can't do with it.

 

Even though I use JRiver and Roon, I still use Foobar to rip my CDs.  I don't think the sound quality is any better than most other top quality players from MPD to Roon and beyond, but it's as good as any open source player I've used on any platform.  Library management is a bit clunky, but it handles my 10,000 or so without a problem. It does album art well too.

 

Foobar was developed as a Windows program, but they now have a MacOs beta too.  If you want to run it on Linux, you have to do so on WINE (which works well & I've done it for years - but I wouldn't use it on a Linux box because there are other players that are a lot easier than running Foobar on WINE - and their GUIs are more intuitive in my opinion).  As far as I know, you can't run Foobar2000 on an ARM processor yet - so it's not for a Raspberry Pi.

[stefano_mbp]

6 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi Stefano, are you happy with SOtM SMS-200 Neo, which software do you use?

I configured it to use MPD/dlna. I like it a lot, it is essential and the sound is going better every new firmware release. SOtM is a very careful company with a very good support and releases new firmware updates every 3/4 months.

My choice for MPD over LMS/Squeezelite is mainly due to the availability for MPD of a lot of control point apps (I choose Lumin app) that in conjunction with MinimServer can show a lot of metadata to choose what to play from my local library (I listen mainly classical music and this genre requires the availability of many tags to find exactly what to play).

Last but not least I have also two rpi4 configured with GentooPlayer and MPD enabled and I can manage them all with the same app.

[stefano_mbp]

32 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi Stefano, so via MPD you can manage 2 rpi4 but with which app ? I mainly listen to minimal music and my favorite musician is Rene Aubry, Emanuele Via, Max Richter, etc. would you recommend sMS-200ultra ?

I use Lumïn app. Due to recent Lumïn app update I had to install Bubbleupnpserver to maintain compatibility between the app and SOtM and raspberry/GentooPlayer and all is working fine. As a SOtM sms-200 user I can recommend it without any doubt, but I’m using the Neo version and not the Ultra, the Ultra is three times more expensive than the Neo and I cannot guarantee it is three times better. I think the Neo is very well balanced in price/performances terms.

[nikolaos1969]

6 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

You could install on rpi Volumio o MoOde or GentooPlayer (there is RuneAudio too but I never tried it)

Volumio and MoOde are MPD/Upmpdcli based

Gentooplayer is MPD/Upmpdcli based too but offers other solutions as LMS/Squeezelite

They can play dsd without any problem.
 

 

Well apart from RPi4, 2 GB I have ordered the hat hifiberry DIGI+PRO https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digi-pro/

in order to transport  with a minimum of electric noise to my amp. The problem is that optical and coaxial inputs does not support DSD. Only USB input of RPi4 support DSD. If I use USB input how to deal with electric noise?

[nikolaos1969]

23 minutes ago, bluesman said:

As Stephano points out, you can use Moode, RuneAudio, or Volumio on your Pi.  Here's a link to my comparison review of multiple players and here's a link to the summary table of my observations - those 3 all did very well with DSD in my systems.  If by stream you mean play your own networked files, they're all excellent.  If you plan to stream from the internet, I thought that Moode made web streaming easier than the other two and Volumio was a bit easier than RuneAudio.  This may be a matter of taste in GUIs and work flows.  As none of them is bad at it, I'd try them all and see which you like best.

 

It may not matter to you, but there's one limitation to DSD in your amplifier (which is a very nice piece).  The DAC won't go above 256 for DSD or DoP, so you won't be able to play higher res files at their native resolution (which is not a big deal to me, but to each his own).  Other than that, any of those 3 players should make you very happy.

Hi, I hope you have seen my answer to Stefano. Playback DSD via streaming over RPi4 USB input to amp?

[DuckToller]

49 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Well apart from RPi4, 2 GB I have ordered the hat hifiberry DIGI+PRO https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digi-pro/

in order to transport  with a minimum of electric noise to my amp. The problem is that optical and coaxial inputs does not support DSD. Only USB input of RPi4 support DSD. If I use USB input how to deal with electric noise?

Salut @nikolaos1969,

if I understand correctly. the limiting factor is the digital input for the DAC in your Amplifier: Cambrtidge writes: "TOSLINK optical: 16/24bit 32-96kHz PCM only, S/PDIF coaxial: 16/24bit 32-192kHz PCM only, USB: audio profile 1.0/2.0 (default 2.0), up to 32bit 384kHz PCM, up to DSD256 or DoP256, ".
Which means that you either need a Source/Streamer that puts out over usb or bypass your internal DAC using DSD capable, external DAC that puts analogue out to your amp. However, doesn't look like that this describes your primarily idea.
In my view, an ALLO USBbridge Sig might fit your use case ?? As it is more xpensive than the standard RPI, you  may need to answer to yourself, how many DSD files you have/will have for listening to and if your  additional investment would relate well to the usage & pleasure of listening to DSD instead 32/192 ???
Best, Tom

[nikolaos1969]

5 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Salut @nikolaos1969,

if I understand correctly. the limiting factor is the digital input for the DAC in your Amplifier: Cambrtidge writes: "TOSLINK optical: 16/24bit 32-96kHz PCM only, S/PDIF coaxial: 16/24bit 32-192kHz PCM only, USB: audio profile 1.0/2.0 (default 2.0), up to 32bit 384kHz PCM, up to DSD256 or DoP256, ".
Which means that you you either need a Source/Streamer that puts out over usb or bypass your internal DAC using DSD capabable, external DAC that puts analogue out to your amp. However, doesn't look like that this was your primarily idea.
In my view, an ALLO USB Sig might fit your use case ??
Best, Tom

Hi Tom, until now I playback my files from my laptop (external disc) via USB hi res supra cable to my amp. But in order avoid cables my first thought was to set up a streamer (I have not got it yet due to CONVID-19) RPi4, 2GB and the hat HIFIBERRY DIGI+PRO. Yet due to amp restrictions as you have mentioned is not possible to playback DSD. Yes, I am considering the USB Signature. I was thinking of building a DIGI ONE Signature player with 2 connections a. connecting an RCA (coaxial input) to my amp and b. connecting a USB input to my amp. In order to avoid the electric noice playback FLAC but I do not know how to skip the noise using USB port.

[stefano_mbp]

57 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Well apart from RPi4, 2 GB I have ordered the hat hifiberry DIGI+PRO https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digi-pro/

in order to transport  with a minimum of electric noise to my amp. The problem is that optical and coaxial inputs does not support DSD. Only USB input of RPi4 support DSD. If I use USB input how to deal with electric noise?

With digi+ pro you can do up to dsd64

[nikolaos1969]

2 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

With digi+ pro you can do up to dsd64

using USB cable?

[DuckToller]

Hi,

I understand your concern, as much as I know, the ALLO products can be ordered together ,or one after one and put together .
If you start with the USBbridge and you are satisfied with the sq, using the standard power plug, you solved you problem for a minimum of cost. 😉
https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-pcb.html#features 
f you feel the need to enhance the USB transport of non-DSD files with COAX, you can add the DIGIONE, and even top it with the ultra low power supply Shanti. A reasonable path to find out, I would think. But it's your ears and your head ... 😉
Best, Tom

[stefano_mbp]

With spdif, digi+ pro has two outputs one is spdif/rca and the other is optical/toslink.

 

[DuckToller]

@stefano_mbp

afaik , input of the ESS DAC in the Cambridge is pcm only  over digital inputs others than USB
Best, Tom

[stefano_mbp]

Cannot use DoP?

[nikolaos1969]

2 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

With spdif, digi+ pro has two outputs one is spdif/rca and the other is optical/toslink.

 

you mean to use both of them at the same time

[stefano_mbp]

No, it is impossible to use both in the same time. With spdif/rca on pcm you can reach up to 24/192, a DSD64 in DoP is 24\176 then you can go in dop for dsd64 ... I’m using this just now.

[nikolaos1969]

7 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Hi,

I understand you concern, as much as I know, the ALLO products can be order together or one after one and put together .
If you start with the USBbridge and you are satisfied with the standard power plug, you solved you problem for a minimum of cost. I
f you feel the need to enhance the USB transport of non-DSD files with COAX, you can add the DIGIONE, and even top it with the ultra low power supply Shanti. A reasonable path to find out, I would think. But it's your ears and your head ... 😉
Best, Tom

Hi Tom, do you think that regarding DIGIONE I can operate two connections at the same time one for coaxial for FLAC and one for USB for DSD? But what about the noise that comes from RPi from the USB port?

[DuckToller]

6 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

Cannot use DoP?

HI,

according to specs from Cambridge, which says "TOSLINK optical: 16/24bit 32-96kHz PCM only, S/PDIF coaxial: 16/24bit 32-192kHz PCM only, USB: audio profile 1.0/2.0 (default 2.0), up to 32bit 384kHz PCM, up to DSD256 or DoP256, ", DOP is only noted for USB.
Do you use this amplifier and DOP64 over S/PDIF coaxial input? Or did you mean that you use the Digi+ for DOP to another DAC ?
Best, Tom