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Building a high performance compute server for HQPlayer


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On 4/13/2020 at 6:31 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is interesting. I'm trying ASDM7EC and my old school Xeon E3-1241 v3 CPU doesn't get above 40-50%, yet the audio constantly stutters. 

 

I have a similar setup and a similar issue. I monitor the server, and the internal temperatures also get quite high so it scares me. That's doing DSD with DRC and DSP, though. I guess that's asking a lot. In PCM it does fine, no matter what I ask it to do. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Okay, not interested in getting too far into the technical weeds on this, but to fully exploit HQP at rates up to DSD 256, is a 9900K

necessary? Or is a 9900 (no letter) enough? I'm asking because it seems a 9900 would run quite a bit cooler than the K version. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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1 hour ago, Solstice380 said:

@TubeLover  You can get the 9900K at <US$500 now at microcenter and others. You don't NEED the GPU to do most of the filters with the new EC modulators, which is what everyone seems to like.  The Fractal cases (nice) are $160-200, Seaonic PSU ~$200, Asus or Gigabyte mobo ~$200-250, cooler for $60, RAM for $75.  Everyone likes the Noctua coolers and Jussi recommends a specific HyperX Predator low latency CL13 RAM, which I got.  You can search for the P/N in the Build a HQP server thread.  That will get you great performance and allow you to run most anything on HQP for <US$1500.  There is a comment above about not being able to do Closed Form-16M filter without the GPU.  What DSD rate do you plan to use and do you think you will do room correction convolution? 

I would only be looking for  DSD256, running Roon and HQ Player, jointly, and the ability to the popular HQ Player filters. Wont need room correction. 

 

And thanks for mentioning the specific parts. I'm very familiar with everything you listed, from building my own pc's, which I've done for many years. I just thought that you needed specific components intended for music servers, low noise, etc. etc.

 

JC 

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10 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

I just thought that you needed specific components intended for music servers, low noise, etc. etc.

 

Having just built one thought I'd give you some current pricing. 🙂 Low noise depends if you are going direct USB to DAC or network to NAA.  Main thing for the server seems to be CPU speed and RAM latency.. 

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12 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

I would only be looking for  DSD256, running Roon and HQ Player, jointly, and the ability to the popular HQ Player filters. Wont need room correction. 

You are good without high powered GPU then. Perhaps get a 2060 or 1070 or even 1660

 

12 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

And thanks for mentioning the specific parts. I'm very familiar with everything you listed, from building my own pc's, which I've done for many years. I just thought that you needed specific components intended for music servers, low noise, etc. etc.

 

My approach is to isolate using fiberoptic ethernet, and a good fiber NIC is bulletproof isolation. What a good music server needs in this case is the ability to run the very best HQPlayer modulators and filters.

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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1 hour ago, firedog said:

Okay, not interested in getting too far into the technical weeds on this, but to fully exploit HQP at rates up to DSD 256, is a 9900K

necessary? Or is a 9900 (no letter) enough? I'm asking because it seems a 9900 would run quite a bit cooler than the K version. 

 

I posted temps using the

$ sensors

command, my active cores are at 67-68 degrees, the others 50-52

 

if you are trying to do fanless, then you need to design for that. It is a different server design. In my case, I go for all out performance in the workstation and use fiber to keep the server isolated in my office, both electrically and sonically. Fiber is very cheap and very effective. 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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1 hour ago, firedog said:

Okay, not interested in getting too far into the technical weeds on this, but to fully exploit HQP at rates up to DSD 256, is a 9900K

necessary? Or is a 9900 (no letter) enough? I'm asking because it seems a 9900 would run quite a bit cooler than the K version. 


As a point of reference I can run HQP Desktop V4 and Roon server at DSD256/poly-sinc-ext2/ASDM7EC on my fanless i7-9700 Linux server with no issues. Two (of eight processors) usually running at 80-90%.  

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3 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Thanks for the input Miska. What strategy would you recommend to manage to keep things "quite a bit cheaper with i9-9900K and RTX2080". Thanks.

 

JC

I used my old PS, case and drives and just purchased a new motherboard, CPU and RAM for under a grand. You don't need the graphics card for most things.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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4 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Thanks for the input Miska. What strategy would you recommend to manage to keep things "quite a bit cheaper with i9-9900K and RTX2080". Thanks.

 

I would first get a type of server I like with 9900K, that has technical space and possibility to add something like RTX2080 later. And then see if I would want to eventually upgrade the machine with such GPU.

 

Essentially that means that the case is large enough and has suitable PSU for the purpose.

 

You would likely want to have a quiet machine too. The kind of approach to take depends if you'd like to build one yourself, get someone build one for you (a small company or such), or get one from the big vendors.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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7 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I would first get a type of server I like with 9900K, that has technical space and possibility to add something like RTX2080 later. And then see if I would want to eventually upgrade the machine with such GPU.

 

Essentially that means that the case is large enough and has suitable PSU for the purpose.

 

You would likely want to have a quiet machine too. The kind of approach to take depends if you'd like to build one yourself, get someone build one for you (a small company or such), or get one from the big vendors.

 

Thanks again Miska, and everyone who offered suggestions. Thankfully, I do have some experience building relatively quiet pc's, since my desktops have long resided only a few feet from me in my office, where I listen to many hours of music a week. I've always had a need for quiet pc's for that reason. 

 

JC

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On 4/17/2020 at 8:01 PM, TubeLover said:

Thanks jabbr. But, in the end, the cost will be the same, granted, I could stretch out the expense, as you noted. But how much would using a less expensive video card cost me in terms of performance, and is there a recommended budget solution as to what card to go with? Thanks.

 

With GPUs the important aspect is that it is not slower on the same task than the CPU. If GPU ends up being too slow, CPU just needs to sit waiting for it to complete it's job and that means performance just suffers instead of gaining anything.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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3 hours ago, luisma said:

What would it be best for a server memory, better CAS or more MHZ, or both?

for the EC modulators

 

Latency in time is function of CAS (in clock cycles) and frequency, you can look for a table here to get an idea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency

 

So higher clock speed gains you more transfer speed, but also keep eye on the resulting latency figures in time.

 

For example I have DDR4-2666 CL12 and CL13 memories. These have 9 - 9.75 ns access times.

 

Finding fast RAM in terms of both transfer and latency speed is not always easy, especially at reasonable cost.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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@John Dyson's da-avx dolbyA decoding software uses massive resources and is able to really stress this machine's AVX512!

 

jon@jon-w2245:~$ cat da-avx.txt
Processor:  0  Mhz:  3900.000
Processor:  1  Mhz:  3905.620
Processor:  2  Mhz:  3902.371
Processor:  3  Mhz:  3899.998
Processor:  4  Mhz:  3555.524
Processor:  5  Mhz:  3905.218
Processor:  6  Mhz:  3237.821
Processor:  7  Mhz:  2932.228
Processor:  8  Mhz:  3900.001
Processor:  9  Mhz:  3903.082
Processor:  10  Mhz:  3900.130
Processor:  11  Mhz:  3900.000
Processor:  12  Mhz:  3373.758
Processor:  13  Mhz:  3908.258
Processor:  14  Mhz:  3190.796
Processor:  15  Mhz:  2986.184
CPU model:  Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz
1 CPU,  8 physical cores per CPU, total 16 logical CPU units
jon@jon-w2245:~$ sensors
coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Package id 0:  +86.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)
Core 0:        +83.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)
Core 2:        +83.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)
Core 3:        +77.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)
Core 5:        +86.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)
Core 8:        +83.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)
Core 10:       +75.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)
Core 11:       +83.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)
Core 12:       +75.0°C  (high = +88.0°C, crit = +98.0°C)

dell_smm-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
fan1:        1642 RPM
fan2:         722 RPM
fan3:         721 RPM

 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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At the moment, I am running this software, and HQPe ASDM7EC @ DSD128 which is sounding very nice and allowing me to listen to the results ...

 

Now in a perfect world there would be a pipe adapter for HQPe such that I could:

 

$ da-avx ... --input=xxx.wav | HQPipe 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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13 hours ago, jabbr said:

At the moment, I am running this software, and HQPe ASDM7EC @ DSD128 which is sounding very nice and allowing me to listen to the results ...

 

Now in a perfect world there would be a pipe adapter for HQPe such that I could:

 

$ da-avx ... --input=xxx.wav | HQPipe 

 

If you can hook it to service output as HTTP stream (FLAC for example) you can make HQPlayer play it straight.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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On 4/23/2020 at 8:25 AM, Miska said:

 

If you can hook it to service output as HTTP stream (FLAC for example) you can make HQPlayer play it straight.

 

Hmm ... yes so using the control interface you add a song to the playlist with an http: URI ... that is a very general solution!

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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  • 1 month later...

HAs anyone used or looked into the Meshify C case for an air cooled PC for HQP? seems to be more compact, provide same cooling (by air), if you need a custom loop then the R5 / R6 seems to be a better option, but since @Miska prefers the R5 I might be missing something obvious.

 

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19 hours ago, luisma said:

HAs anyone used or looked into the Meshify C case for an air cooled PC for HQP? seems to be more compact, provide same cooling (by air), if you need a custom loop then the R5 / R6 seems to be a better option, but since @Miska prefers the R5 I might be missing something obvious.

 

 

I'm also a fan (sic) of fractal designs. You can get a 240mm radiator up top on the Meshify but 360 requires putting it in front. Tradeoffs for size that may not matter.

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just completed a I7-10700k build with Noctua NH-D15 cooler on Gigabyte Vision D m/b, 32gb 3200 CL16 ram. Have not installed GPU yet & can do ASDM7EC at DSD256 with all filters except Sinc-L.

 

Cooling these processors on air is marginal. Got stable O/C all cores at 4.8GHz with limiting PL1/PL2 TDP to 158/160w to keep temps within safe limit. Can run Prime95 blend around 70c and small FFT tests around 82c.These boards ship with Enhanced Multi-Core Performance enabled which sets the CPU voltage way too high. Was able to get higher clocks & benchmarks at lower temps by optimizing the power draw.

 

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I have successfully applied Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to fine tune my 6700k HQplayer Server

Managed to run DSD256 /ASDMEC7 smoothly- Stutters only after say 10-12 minutes after PC cpu gets marginally past limit set at 72-74deg Celsius. Additional cooling fans - and I will move the PC directly in way of my AirCon unit's downdraught to add COOLING boost.

 

I did the tuning under WIn 10 Pro and modified the BIOS which my lousy OEM PC from Lenovo does not allow fine tuning of Current, Voltage, Power, etc to the CPU chip. I tune each core and adjusted until there was not throttling at CPU temp cut off at 72-73 Deg Celsius. 

Filters applied not so demanding - until my Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Super Gaming OC 8gb GPU arrives next week. 

Managed polysinc-short-mp-2s using my humble Nvidia GTX 970M 4gb GPU now. 

A new Noctua NH-U12a CPU cooler. with 4 casing fans made it work. 2 additional Noctua NF-A14 2000rpm on to way to boost cooling.And relocation to new location under AC unit will help a lot.

 

Doing long term stability and endurance testing now. My Lenovo OEM Motherboard is basically crap!

VRM is too weak to provide current and voltage to the 6700k CPU chip to make overclocking stable. I managed the above by reducing the boost from 4.5Ghz peak Manual setting under Default Bios to about 4.31Ghz using Intel XT Extreme Utility - The 4.3Ghz limit below which even DSD128 with EC7 & will not run. 

 

So threading the needle btwn overclocking/throttling/hit voltage/current limit OR underclocking and not managing the EC7 modulator at DSD256. 

 

I would say for the hotter CPU's esp the 9900k/ks/10900k - water cooling would be sensible and advisable. Those chips are hot. My new server will have 380 mm closed loop water coolers.

After tuning THEN>>>>

Switch back to my main WInServer 2019 - Wow, the XT utility will not display graphical and controls as under Win 10 PRO. BUT under taskmaster it shows as running smoothly! Since the Bios Default has been overwritten so whether the OS is win10Pro or WinServer 2019, it should be Alright!

HQplayer plays smoothly DSD256 EC7 polysinc-short-mp-2s. (Oh XTR-2s - stutters - GPU not sufficient CUDA power!) 


It's slightly risky what I am doing as my web searches do not have any example on what I have done.

But it seems that the BIOS set in XT Extreme Tuning under Win10Pro is stable running WinServer 2019.
My voltage I keep to 1.3550 Volts peak, 132 Watts limit.

TDP show about 67 watts peak and then drops to average of 54-55 watts

I will periodically switch back to WIN 10 Pro (I have 2 SSD's 1 for each OS-so swopping takes 5 seconds and then reboot!) just to check for Bios Stability. Smooth playing so far! Fingers Crossed.

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1 hour ago, dean70 said:

Some details of the RTX 3080 Ti have been leaked. Expected to have 5376 CUDA cores 10GB GDDR6 VRAM and run at 2.2GHz, 40% improved performance over 2080 Ti. Due for release Sep/Oct.

 

And you could likely build a complete high performance (non HQPlayer based) pc for just the price of the RTX 3080. These prices are getting completely out of hand. 

 

JC

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