Listening Session Suddenly Stops - Something Isn't Right On The Digital Side Of Things - Any Thoughts?

[TubeLover]

As the title speaks of, I was listening earlier tonight and was somewhere between 1.5 and 2 hours into the session, and suddenly, when I switched to a different album on Roon

there was no sound.

 

This system consists of a pair of monoblock power amps, a preamp, an UltraRendu (with LPS1.2 power supply) which connects to a Mutec MC-3 +USB USB to SDIF Converter/clock, which connects to a Modwright Elyse DAC. Also related to the system is my Roon server, a SGC Sonic Orbiter. And as noted previously, I am running Roon controlled by my iPad Pro.

 

I have verified that there are no issues with the power amps, or preamp, as a connected cd player functions perfectly, I also highly doubt there is any issue with the DAC, which, for quite a while during troubleshooting was not seeing any input coming to it. I power failed and rebooted the LPS1.2 power supply, same for the UltraRendu, same for the Mutec, same for the DAC. I then also from the network side, rebooted the Sonic Orbiter, the UltraRendu and its Roon Ready app, as well as finally rebooting the iPad. And, all of that resulted in nothing. I did note, after going through all of the above, and repeatedly trying to get something to work, that the LPS1.2 was quite hot. But then it may always be quite hot? My old LPS1.1 was always pretty hot to the touch. 

 

Any thoughts on what might be the issue here, or anything else I should check, or try, in terms of troubleshooting would be great appreciated. Thanks.

 

JC

[elan120]

Would you be able to login to your router and see if all your components are connected?  

[TubeLover]

23 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Would you be able to login to your router and see if all your components are connected?  

Thanks for the suggestion. Just did, and everything is on the network map EXCEPT the UltraRendu. That's particularly odd since it has its green (all is well) indicator light on, and shows all normal signs of connectivity at its USB connection.The Sonic Orbiter also sees it. 

 

JC 

[elan120]

6 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

That's particularly odd since it has its green (all is well) indicator light on, and shows all normal signs of connectivity at its USB connection.The Sonic Orbiter also sees it. 

Good that you have narrowed down to the device giving you the issue.  One possibility is the network side failed to work on the uR, but since I am not familiar with this device, the suggestion is generic.  1. Reboot uR once more, 2. try a different software media, 3. try a different network cable know to work, 4. using a different power supply.

[TubeLover]

Thanks again for the suggestions of what to try. I have rebooted once more, and changed changed cables. The UltraRendu is still not showing up on the network. I do not have an alternate power supply, but can borrow a friends in the morning and try that. I dont have a different software media to utilize, only Roon. 

 

I'll report back when I've tried another power supply. Thanks.

 

JC

[elan120]

4 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

I dont have a different software media to utilize, only Roon. 

Sorry for not being precise on the software media.  I was thinking if you could try using a different / new micro sD card?

[AudioDoctor]

I PMed you my idea, but I will share it here. Let it cool down to room temp and try again. turn it off completely and remove it from any other components that might give off heat. Then try and see if it works.

 

This is my hypothesis.

[TubeLover]

To try a new SD card, I would need to order one, which would take quite a bit of time, adding to the frustration. I just pinged Andrew at Small Green Computer to get his thoughts on whether that would resolve the issue. I do have difficulty, though, imagining that a software issue could just suddenly appear from out of nowhere and cause the UltraRendu to not even be seen by the network?   

 

As far as the cooling issues mentioned, I literally unplugged the power supply when I went to bed last night, and did not plug it back in until an hour or so ago. At this point, it is warm, but not even approaching hot. The UltraRendu itself, is in an open air configuration, and barely even slightly warm. However, when I went back into the Router to look at things, the UltraRendu is still not showing up on the network device map. Every other thing I have connected, either directly, or via wireless shows up there (which is a LOT of stuff) but not that UltraRendu. I have absolutely no idea why?

 

JC

[elan120]

10 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

To try a new SD card, I would need to order one, which would take quite a bit of time, adding to the frustration. I just pinged Andrew at Small Green Computer to get his thoughts on whether that would resolve the issue. I do have difficulty, though, imagining that a software issue could just suddenly appear from out of nowhere and cause the UltraRendu to not even be seen by the network?  

This certainly is frustrating.  Any chance to try out a different power supply?  If you cannot get a different power supply soon, just for testing purpose, try using the energizer for LPS-1.2 since it is outputting 7.5VDC/4.8A well within the uR input voltage range of 6~9V and the current demand of 2A max, 1A typical.

[TubeLover]

Friend just dropped over the power supply he uses for his Rendu. Replaced the existing one and waited for both to finish powering up. All lights green and units ready. Absolutely no change. The routers network map does not see the UltraRendu, though it clearly sees all 14 other things on the network. Most importantly, there is no sound when that source is selected on the preamp. And yes, certainly very frustrating. 

 

I'm also trying to think of what could possibly have taken place for the UltraRendu to suddenly drop off the network after 1.5-2 hours of listening to the system? Yes, a sudden power cutoff would have done so, but we've eliminated the potential power issue now. I'm lost. And forcibly sitting here paying bills and taking care of other things, all this afternoon, in silence.

 

 

JC

[elan120]

Is there another known good ethernet port in your router or switch where uR is plugged into that you can change to and try?

 

Do you have DHCP or fixed IP address on uR?

[TubeLover]

Swapped router port with the one that normally connects to my pc. Rebooted the UltraRendu following that. No change.

 

DHCP is in use.

 

JC 

[elan120]

6 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

Swapped router port with the one that normally connects to my pc. Rebooted the UltraRendu following that. No change.

That was a long shot but simple to try anyway.  Looks like everything I can think of external to UltraRendu are tried, at this point it appears either software that sets up ethernet somehow corrupted or a hardware failure.  Hopefully SGC will get back to you soon with other ideas. 

[DuckToller]

HI JC,
- Any new devices connected to the network in the last days or swapping ethernet cables??. Any updates with restart?

I am not familiar with the rendu, but could you manually change the ip adress (i's guess no bc you would need a connection for it ..)
- One first thought, the old IP adress is in use with another device .. check with ROON if you find out the former IP adress from the Rendu and compare with your routers network view.
- Another opportunity would be to connect the Rendu as the single device to your router with the ethernet cable of another device, for example the SGC device, and restart both devices I suppose you connect to your router manually via WiFi?
That is to make sure it is seen in the network as first connected device. If it does not show, you may be sure the problem is singularly with the Rendu and not with the network/router itself.
Have a nice saturday & hopefully you won't spend the rest of the weekend  troubleshooting
Edit: why not post you problem in the Sonore sponsored area ?
Tom

[TubeLover]

Thanks very much to everyone for the suggestions. I've been troubleshooting non stop all afternoon and finally, at least know where I stand. It turns out that the reason I couldnt see it on the network was because the router/network somehow re-identified it as a second Apple TV. No idea why, or how, but, in the end, it really was on the network all the time. After swapping out power supplies, my friend also brought along his MicroRendu, and I swapped that out. And various cables, power and ethernet, etc. etc. And many, many reboots, rechecks and restarts. At a certain point, it became clear that the issue was not the power supply, and not the Rendu's, nor the DAC. As a last ditch effort, I engaged a friend who is not only a data network engineer, but extremely well versed in a fair number of other technologies. As he ran me through the test modes and alternate options available on the Mutec, we eventually discovered that the MC-3+USB had in some sense, stopped working correctly. It could not properly the signal from the Rendus for more than a couple seconds, even if we disabled its own clock.

 

The bad news is that I believe it has to go back to Germany for repairs, and I have absolutely no idea what the cost would be, or the timeframe until it was back, though it certainly won't be short. There have numerous been instances in the past where I had various Rendu, or at least Rendu related  glitches which were also very frustrating. At least two technical experts and, myself also, more or less, increasingly attribute to these problems to the complexity of the Rendu to Mutec to DAC pathway causing these occasional issues for the Rendu's. They have long recommended moving to another, current DAC  that would allow a direct USB to USB connection between the Rendu and the DAC. I've been putting it off because of how great the performance of the Modwright Elyse is, it once put up a good fight in a comparison review with the Lampizator Golden Gate (at the time considered one of the small handful of world's greatest DAC, and a $22k DAC vs a $7000.00 one). Oh well, the Elyse generally sells well on the used market, as such a small number were produced, and its quality precedes it. I'm just concerned about how big a step down I will be making in sonic terms. 

 

Still, It would appear to be time to give in and attempt to consolidate my losses by purchasing one of those covered during the course of these discussions. Its not a great time to be spending those funds, but likely not much in the way of other options:

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58069-dac-comparison/

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/mhdt-orchid-or-lampizator-amber-3?page=2

 

 

JC

 

[AudioDoctor]

I am glad you narrowed it down. So it's working again?

 

I have always been a big advocate of the KISS principle, Keep It Simple, Stupid. I find it eliminates a whole lot of extra failure points and complexities.

 

I am confused here...  The Elyse does not have USB?  What was the Mutec doing?

[TubeLover]

8 hours ago, DuckToller said:

HI JC,
- Any new devices connected to the network in the last days or swapping ethernet cables??. Any updates with restart?

I am not familiar with the rendu, but could you manually change the ip adress (i's guess no bc you would need a connection for it ..)
- One first thought, the old IP adress is in use with another device .. check with ROON if you find out the former IP adress from the Rendu and compare with your routers network view.
- Another opportunity would be to connect the Rendu as the single device to your router with the ethernet cable of another device, for example the SGC device, and restart both devices I suppose you connect to your router manually via WiFi?
That is to make sure it is seen in the network as first connected device. If it does not show, you may be sure the problem is singularly with the Rendu and not with the network/router itself.
Have a nice saturday & hopefully you won't spend the rest of the weekend  troubleshooting
Edit: why not post you problem in the Sonore sponsored area ?
Tom

Thanks Tom. Now that I know the problem isn't related to Sonore, and what it is, I just have to calculate how to best deal with it. Thanks for the help, as always.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

5 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I am glad you narrowed it down. So it's working again?

 

I have always been a big advocate of the KISS principle, Keep It Simple, Stupid. I find it eliminates a whole lot of extra failure points and complexities.

 

I am confused here...  The Elyse does not have USB?  What was the Mutec doing?

Okay, I do understand the confusion. Allow me to explain. Back when the Elyse was released in 2015, the then current USB audio standard was in phase one. You could not use a USB port directly to a DAC without having a set of Windows drivers, that were only to be had if you were feeding it with a pc. For that reason, to use the Elyse, and many other top DAC's of the day, if you were feeding them via a USB output from a network player, or streaming device, you had to use a high quality USB to SPDIF converter. This was also true of Berkley DAC's of that timeframe (they even offered their own not insignificantly priced converter unit).  

 

About a year to 18 months later, USB Audio standard 2 came into being, and allowed network players or streamers to connect direct from their USB output to the USB input on a DAC built with the USB Audio standard 2 design. 

 

JC

[AudioDoctor]

Ah I see, ok that clears it up.

 

I dont know what they go for these days, is it possible to find a newer one?

[TubeLover]

Dan Wright, of Modwright never made an updated model. In addition to the updated USB standard coming out, for which he would have had to redesign the entire USB circuit, just as the Elyse DAC's were shipping in early 2016,  Sony started the ill fated "DSD will rule the world promotion and, suddenly, no one wanted to buy anything but the very newest DAC's which had DSD capability. At that time, he would have also had to re-design the entire main digital section, at major cost, and he just never felt that DSD would become significant enough to merit it. He sold a very, very limited number of Elyse DAC's and then got out of the DAC business. Though the audio quality of the DAC's, and their limited number, still make them in demand, used, by people who aren't concerned about having to use USB to SPDIF converters, given the build quality and sound of the DAC they are getting for that money. These DAC's are no less than 30 pounds of superb quality engineering, parts and design.

 

 

JC

[AudioDoctor]

You know, now that we have narrowed down the culprit...  Sonore makes a USB to S/PDIF converter.

 

http://www.sonore.us/ultraDigital.html

[Hilly]

Hi All - my first post !

 

I also have an Ultrarendu and absolutely love it. It has worked flawlessly for 2 years but recently has developed an annoying problem - when it is powered on, it doesn't show up on the network - I do a 'arp -a' to see what devices are connected. After 1 or 2 reboots it will then appear ! I am pretty sure it's a DHCP type of issue - have tried assigning a 'reserved MAC/IP address address' on the router/DHCP server, but this didn't work either. Not a major problem, but annoying - it takes at least 10 minutes to get it running every morning !