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Stuttering on playback from NAS


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For the last four or five months, I have had an occasional but recurring stuttering issue with streaming music stored on a Synology NAS to a USB DAC that is connected to a port on my Dell XPS desktop computer.  The NAS and computer are connected to the same ASUS router by CAT 6.  Playback software is JRiver 26.  

 

Every so often, maybe once every 45 minutes to an hour or so, music playback turns into a bit of distortion and then stops for a second or two. Then, it restarts right where it left off and sounds fine until the next time.  It happens on music of any resolution and file format. This never happened before December or so, even though this basic setup has been in place for years. 

 

My Signature Rendu SE doesn't have this issue.  The Rendu renders music that is stored on the same NAS, that passes through the same router, and that then goes through a Netgear GS348 switch and a recently-installed EtherRegen before reaching the Rendu. I play the music with JRemote, which controls the same JRiver 26 software. The Rendu did not have this issue when it was connected only by ethernet rather than optically through the ER in January. 

 

I don't think I have changed anything in the router settings at all and have no reason to believe the computer has any particularly fault in its operation or setup other than an issue with its currently-unused HDMI port. 

 

Any thoughts? 

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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There can be a LOT of possible causes: NAS, Network (switch), PC,... so we have to investigate...

 

First of all, check that your NAS currently runs the latest Firmware version.

 

Secondly, perform on your NAS a DEEP disks analysis to check if any problem is detected on your hard drives: there is such an option somewhere in DSM (the Synology operating system)  to perform such a deep and complete analysis of your disks. If the deep analysis reports no problem, we can suppose that the disks are OK. Be aware that the disks analysis can be very long...

 

If the disks are OK, this does not necessarily mean that the NAS is OK: it may have an issue on its motherboard arising only after a period of working time but...

 

You say that this happens after 45mn, so this may indicate that the problem arrives when a component (which one ?) reach a higher temperature than when it is cold.

 

Try to let your PC (or whatever device that reads the files from your NAS) work all along the night, for example by running a batch of video encoding (this should ensure that the various parts of your PC are "hot"), and test again : if the problem occurs quicker than in your previous tests, this means that the problem relates to the temperaure of your PC.

 

If the problem still occurs after the same period of time than usual, then the cause might be more complex to find...

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2 hours ago, nounours18200 said:

There can be a LOT of possible causes: NAS, Network (switch), PC,... so we have to investigate...

 

First of all, check that your NAS currently runs the latest Firmware version.

 

Secondly, perform on your NAS a DEEP disks analysis to check if any problem is detected on your hard drives: there is such an option somewhere in DSM (the Synology operating system)  to perform such a deep and complete analysis of your disks. If the deep analysis reports no problem, we can suppose that the disks are OK. Be aware that the disks analysis can be very long...

 

If the disks are OK, this does not necessarily mean that the NAS is OK: it may have an issue on its motherboard arising only after a period of working time but...

 

You say that this happens after 45mn, so this may indicate that the problem arrives when a component (which one ?) reach a higher temperature than when it is cold.

 

Try to let your PC (or whatever device that reads the files from your NAS) work all along the night, for example by running a batch of video encoding (this should ensure that the various parts of your PC are "hot"), and test again : if the problem occurs quicker than in your previous tests, this means that the problem relates to the temperaure of your PC.

 

If the problem still occurs after the same period of time than usual, then the cause might be more complex to find...

Thank you.  The firmware is current, but I haven't tried the other suggestions yet.  Will give them a go.  

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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Is the stuttering definitely only occurring with JRiver playing the music files over the network from the NAS, ie, have you actually tried seeing if you get the same issue with JRiver playing a similar amount of music files stored locally on the same computer?

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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8 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

Is the stuttering definitely only occurring with JRiver playing the music files over the network from the NAS, ie, have you actually tried seeing if you get the same issue with JRiver playing a similar amount of music files stored locally on the same computer?

Thanks.  
 

This has occurred only with JRiver when listening locally but not when using JRiver as a DLNA server.  

 

I can’t run this test off the computer’s hdd because I have several TB of flac and hi-res files on the NAS and only a 256 GB SSD on the computer.  I could try it with an attached USB drive, though, when the computer comes back from Dell in a week or two.  (After I wrote the original post, the computer went into Dell’s shop for service because it developed a video issue that may be caused by a defective HDMI port.)

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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By 'similar amount of files' I meant that amount in JRiver's current playlist that would normally lead to the problem. So may be enough files to give you a bit more than 45mins to 1hour's worth of continuous music by JRiver you mentioned in your first post - certainly no where near the amount of files that are stored on your NAS! 😀

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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4 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

By 'similar amount of files' I meant that amount in JRiver's current playlist that would normally lead to the problem. So may be enough files to give you a bit more than 45mins to 1hour's worth of continuous music by JRiver you mentioned in your first post - certainly no where near the amount of files that are stored on your NAS! 😀

Ah, okay.  Thanks.  On this particular system, I usually just queue one complete album at a time.  I will run that test when my computer returns.

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/31/2020 at 2:50 PM, Cebolla said:

By 'similar amount of files' I meant that amount in JRiver's current playlist that would normally lead to the problem. So may be enough files to give you a bit more than 45mins to 1hour's worth of continuous music by JRiver you mentioned in your first post - certainly no where near the amount of files that are stored on your NAS! 😀

Okay, computer is back. I copied a long album to the local SSD.  Fifteen minutes in, stuttering.  Files are 24-96. Playback is JRiver MC 26.

 

The only other activity on the computer is websurfing on Firefox.  Quicken was open but not being actively used.

 

Computer is Dell XPS 8930, latest i7, Windows 10, 16gb memory, 256 gb SSD, Killer E2400 gigabit ethernet controller, GeForce GTX 1050i, ASUS RT-AC87R, Netgear DOCSIS 3.1 modem, xfinity gigabit cable.

 

Disappointed this still is happening.  :(

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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Well, at least you've eliminated "stuttering from the NAS" or anything to do with the network as being the issue with one simple check. 🙂

 

So the suspicion falls on JRiver Media Center 26 or the audio output device you are using with it to output to the USB DAC attached to the computer or the USB DAC itself.

The first thing to do is to try to eliminate JRMC. A decent alternative which should be able to use the same audio output device on your Windows computer is the free foobar2000 audio file player. So I'd suggest trying that next and see if you still get the problem.

 

BTW (thought it best not to make any assumptions from your first post and sig):

- What is your USB DAC?

- What audio output device are you using on the Windows computer with your USB DAC and is it using WASAPI or ASIO?

- Did you use the same DAC when you mentioned testing with the Signature Rendu in your first post?

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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11 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

Well, at least you've eliminated "stuttering from the NAS" or anything to do with the network as being the issue with one simple check. 🙂

 

So the suspicion falls on JRiver Media Center 26 or the audio output device you are using with it to output to the USB DAC attached to the computer or the USB DAC itself.

The first thing to do is to try to eliminate JRMC. A decent alternative which should be able to use the same audio output device on your Windows computer is the free foobar2000 audio file player. So I'd suggest trying that next and see if you still get the problem.

 

BTW:

- What is your USB DAC?

- What audio output device are you using on the Windows computer with your USB DAC and is it using WASAPI or ASIO?

- Did you use the same DAC when you mentioned testing with the Signature Rendu in your first post?

Thanks. 

 

It is an LH Labs Pulse. Output is WASAPI.  It doesn't do native DSD and doesn't seem to like ASIO. 

 

I have Foobar. I will use it instead of JRiver for awhile. 

 

What I don't get is that I have used the exact setup since 2015, across two computers, without any incident until this started last December or so. 

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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I have been thinking about replacing the DAC, especially since I have converted my sacd's to dsd.  Maybe it's time. 

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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1 hour ago, Cebolla said:

JRiver are constantly revising MC 26 (seven during last December alone!); similar for Windows 10 which could  have affected WASAPI or its support of USB Audio; your DAC could have developed a problem or had a dodgy firmware update - many possibilities.

I have been through all of these updates/revisions and none have had any impact on playback, including multichannel DSD256 files.  I doubt that these are the issue.

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
13 minutes ago, jriver said:

Try turning off memory playback if  you're using it.

 

Antivirus software can cause problems like this.  On Windows 10, runnng only Windows Defender is recommended.  

I appreciate your responding.  
 

Well, that’s sad.  I pay handsomely for Norton, which I have used for years, including the many years that JRiver worked without stuttering.  I will keep that in mind, though.

 

In any event, I used a workaround.  I disconnected my DAC from USB and pulled an old microrendu out of the closet.  Everything goes over the router now, controlled by JRiver DLNA.  

 

If I go back to playing locally over USB, I will turn off memory play.  Thanks for that tip.

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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