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Want to purchase HQPlayer, but about it's more robust features?

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Hello,

 

I downloaded and tried a demo of HQPlayer. I enjoyed its sound more than Audirvana. However, the more i looked into this player the more my head started hurting. For example, just the resampling filters, not to mention the Delta-Sigma conversion options have me wondering how I am ever going to hear the best this software can sound to my liking? My technical background is really non-existent when it comes to audio...especially the DSD side of things. What made question even more was this idea of 'no DAC being the best DAC'. What the F*** does this mean? :D  I found this over at AudioDesignguide.com, where it lists a hardware deviced called a DSD2 here: https://puredsd.ru/ 

 

I enjoy DSD a lot right now, via Audirvana, with my Benchmark HGC2, Topping D90 and a Musical Paradise tube DAC that I can roll different DAC modules into, which are currently AK4490 and ESS3098Pro modules and a soon to release AK4499 module.

 

My first question is in regards to the player, how does a lay person learn about all mentioned options available with the desktop version of HQplayer? What does something like the DSD2 do for the sound quality when paired with HQPlayer? I mean, should I just run with the DACs I have and learn about the players options before I start looking into hardware options? I'm really at a loss as to whether to buy or not. I'm sure I'm missing a page or paper that explains all the players options, but I'm not an engineer, I just like music a lot. I don't want to use it with Roon, I don't care if it sounds better than this or that or about any of the many common questions you see. I want to learn about using the player to shape the DSD sound to that which I like best. 

 

thanks a lot folks,

vv

 

 

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I think you are making it too complicated. Just try some of the filters/modulators and see if you like the sound. That's really all there is to it. If you like it and think you will use it, buy it.


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup and a RB Pi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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thanks for the lack of information, but nah, not going to spend money just to select options that must be there for real and creative uses. Even on board ESS chip filters have simple enough explanations, I'm not asking for a book here. 

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26 minutes ago, biosailor said:

 

 

And a link for HQPlayer for 'ordinary people'

 

 

I do like HQPlayer in conjunction with Roon. The combo is fantastic!

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Perfect, thanks a lot Biosailor! I think this at least gives me a direction to look. For me, it's cost is 50% percent of a new 2a3 tube pair or a AudioNote cap which i'm putting into a DAC and two amps -all of which would have immediate and noticeable improvements...and I would know why. I've been trying to equate HQPlayer to what little I've learned about SOX filters in Audirvana, but even there, PhD acoustic engineers have a hard time understanding what an 'open source' piece of software is really doing via it's filters, nonetheless, some information is out there. I wonder why the whole audio sampling/upsampling thing seems as though it's in the dark, when things like visual filters/upsampling and interpolation techniques have been dissected and turn inside out to understand what is going on? Anyway, thanks again. 

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5 minutes ago, 4est said:

In the downloaded HQPlayer folder on your drive there will be a PDF manual.

 

Wow, yep, and there it is. Just to clarify for others, I found it in the installation directory. 

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1 minute ago, vvcv said:

 

Wow, yep, and there it is. Just to clarify for others, I found it in the installation directory. 

Bear in mind that some of the filters are for specific things- MQA for example or DAC types. Read the manual and pick filters for your DAC and try them out. The filters are all about trade offs and not absolutes. That is why there are more than one. The differences can be quite startling.


Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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5 minutes ago, vvcv said:

 

Wow, yep, and there it is. Just to clarify for others, I found it in the installation directory. 

Oh, and purchasing new equipment is not necessary. The whole premise of HQP is in part about getting the best performance out of the hardware you have. I happen to be a proponent of PCM>DSD, but didn't start off that way. It was through using this program that I slowly merged into it.


Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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4 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

HQPLayer is really not easy to understand. For example, if you think you have to set the volume control to 0dB, because you have a preamplifier, you've already lost. It's recommend -3dB or -4dB for sufficient headroom. I now use the HQPlayer without preamplifier and control the volume with the HQPlayer. Operation is via Roon. Great sound!

 

I prefer PCM > DSD. The DAC is to be operated in NOS (Non OverSampling). I have listed some filter and modulator settings here. Blue are my favorits.
37471434ad.png

 

Great compilation! I wasn‘t aware that most PCM filters upsample from 16 to 24 bits. Or is the function of the dithering filter? 

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4 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

HQPLayer is really not easy to understand. For example, if you think you have to set the volume control to 0dB, because you have a preamplifier, you've already lost. It's recommend -3dB or -4dB for sufficient headroom. I now use the HQPlayer without preamplifier and control the volume with the HQPlayer. Operation is via Roon. Great sound!

 

I prefer PCM > DSD. The DAC is to be operated in NOS (Non OverSampling). I have listed some filter and modulator settings here. Blue are my favorits.
37471434ad.png

 

 

No not easy to understand at all, but do keep -3db in Audirvana (as I will in HQP) for any changes I choose to use for headroom as well as for the times my girlfriend listens to music, where 50% of it is very highly compressed stuff. 

 

Regarding your post. There are some tracks where I find PCM better too, but most music I listen to i enjoy DSD. So, I thought the whole reason for needing filters, aside from the DACs filters, was during upsampling or resampling to another format. So, if your original file is PCM, and not listening to upsampled PCM, do the HQP filters make any alterations to the music signal? Shouldn't your DACs filters be all that is needed when listening to a straight file? Sorry if I missed something, do you mind restating in case i did miss something or a lot of somthings? And this all brings up another question, can I resample some PCM files to DSD w/o filters in HQP?

 

thanks

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31 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

The DAC is to be operated in NOS (Non OverSampling). 

 

 

So, this statement is why I asked the questions in the previous post. So, your saying your DAC is running at its default settings (given that some DACs can upsample?) while you use HQP to do any upsample you may want?

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42 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Hi vvcv!  All DACs that are not NOS upsample internally using the provided filters in the DAC chip (some FPGA based DACs have their own).  The idea with HQP is to replace the limited capabilities of on-board signal processing.  The chips don’t have the computing power to do the really complex filters that give the best sound.   Then it comes down to the talent of the filter designer / programmer- and in my humble opinion @Miska is far ahead of others.  He really understands the technical side and he tries to make each type of filter as technically accurate as possible.  As  @4est said there are trade offs to be made with each one.  

 

i have a DAC (Lampizator) that does nothing but use an analog filter circuit to convert the DSD stream to the analog output signal. I bought my DAC because of how good HQP is! 

Thanks Solstice. Geez, this really explains things for me. So, in a sense, or rather a very real actuality, any DAC that does not support NOS should not be used with HQP due to the DACs filters defeating the work the HQP filters do? If this is the case, someone mentioned that I would not need new hardware to use HQP --more accurately, to use HQP with its filters. It sounds like having a NOS DAC is what I need to hear the real benefits of HQP.

 

As a side question to this, do DACs that claim to support Native DSD put a filter in the signals path?

 

The Lampizator DAC looks interesting, which model do you have and how do you like it?

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5 minutes ago, vvcv said:

Thanks Solstice. Geez, this really explains things for me. So, in a sense, or rather a very real actuality, any DAC that does not support NOS should not be used with HQP due to the DACs filters defeating the work the HQP filters do? If this is the case, someone mentioned that I would not need new hardware to use HQP --more accurately, to use HQP with its filters. It sounds like having a NOS DAC is what I need to hear the real benefits of HQP.

 

As a side question to this, do DACs that claim to support Native DSD put a filter in the signals path?

 

The Lampizator DAC looks interesting, which model do you have and how do you like it?

 

Is that so? Say, a DAC has 192/24 maximal processing capabilities and it does upsampling. What does such a DAC do during upsampling? Does it convert everything to highest sample rate, 192 kHz? And wouldn't such a DAC profit by feeding a signal that had been upsampled to 192 kHz with streamlined filters such as those from HQPlayer. In such a case, the DAC has to do nothing, correct? And the signal would basically pass the DAC untouched. Correct?

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2 minutes ago, biosailor said:

 

Is that so? Say, a DAC has 192/24 maximal processing capabilities and it does upsampling. What does such a DAC do during upsampling? Does it convert everything to highest sample rate, 192 kHz? And wouldn't such a DAC profit by feeding a signal that had been upsampled to 192 kHz with streamlined filters such as those from HQPlayer. In such a case, the DAC has to do nothing, correct? And the signal would basically pass the DAC untouched. Correct?

What do you mean "Is that so?" I made no statement only questions. How can you ask a question about other questions? 

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29 minutes ago, vvcv said:

Thanks Solstice. Geez, this really explains things for me. So, in a sense, or rather a very real actuality, any DAC that does not support NOS should not be used with HQP due to the DACs filters defeating the work the HQP filters do? If this is the case, someone mentioned that I would not need new hardware to use HQP --more accurately, to use HQP with its filters. It sounds like having a NOS DAC is what I need to hear the real benefits of HQP.

 

As a side question to this, do DACs that claim to support Native DSD put a filter in the signals path?

 

The Lampizator DAC looks interesting, which model do you have and how do you like it?

Not exactly as  you are describing it. Any DAC outputting analog is going to have some kind of filter. 

Some DACs have a native DSD mode and don't alter DSD sent at that mode; some  DACs will take a file and only do the amount of upsampling necessary: so if you feed them their "native" upsampling rate, they won't do more upsampling. 

In short, you don't need a NOS DAC to benefit from HQP. HQP takes some of the computing load off the DAC, and many think it's moduators/filters are superior to those found in most DACs. If you agree and use it, you get this benefit. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup and a RB Pi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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1 minute ago, firedog said:

Not exactly as  you are describing it. Any DAC outputting analog is going to have some kind of filter. 

Some DACs have a native DSD mode and don't alter DSD sent at that mode; some  DACs will take a file and only do the amount of upsampling necessary: so if you feed them their "native" upsampling rate, they won't do more upsampling. 

In short, you don't need a NOS DAC to benefit from HQP. HQP takes some of the computing load off the DAC, and many think it's moduators/filters are superior to those found in most DACs. If you agree and use it, you get this benefit. 

 

I wish part of what you describe were true with my Benchmark DAC (can't say for sure). I thought the same may be true, after reading an above post, regarding feeding a DAC a "native" upsampling rate, however, with speaking to a Benchmark rep, a good sales manager who knows a lot of the engineering inside of their gear, claims that giving the Benchmark a DSD64 file will still be filtered through Benchmarks hardware. Now, he's not one of their engineer's (I've spoken with him before) but he didn't seem to know of HQ player and thought it best to get it straight from the horses mouth. I think, for right now anyway, I'll just stick to Native DSD. 

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It depends on the design of the DAC chip and also how the DAC maker implements it. You can have 2 DACs based on the same chip that handle it differently. In any case, the DAC doesn't necessarily  erase all of the benefit of using HQP.


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup and a RB Pi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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32 minutes ago, vvcv said:

What do you mean "Is that so?" I made no statement only questions. How can you ask a question about other questions? 

Well, you stated, or maybe you asked?, that a non-NOS DAC does not profit from HQPlayer.

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14 minutes ago, firedog said:

It depends on the design of the DAC chip and also how the DAC maker implements it. You can have 2 DACs based on the same chip that handle it differently. In any case, the DAC doesn't necessarily  erase all of the benefit of using HQP.

 

Before I asked posted the original question i had no idea about NOS DACs. But, the more i'm reading about them and they do sound interesting. Especially one that AudioNote makes...a kit I think. 

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23 minutes ago, biosailor said:

Well, you stated, or maybe you asked?, that a non-NOS DAC does not profit from HQPlayer.

 

 

Oh, yeah, i see what you refer to. No, it didn't have a question mark, but it was more a question in trying to understand if that was indeed what the poster above was speaking of. Anyway, it seems it's not the case with all DACs. And, unfortunately, as far as a Benchmark rep knows, it will resample HQPs filter(s). But they suggested to ask the players developer due to them not knowing HQ at all, but I suspect they know enough about their hardware to have a definitive answer. 

 

Too bad my other DACs were on loan to audio pals during my HQP trial period. But, they're not NOS, though are Native DSD. 

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5 hours ago, biosailor said:

Great compilation! I wasn‘t aware that most PCM filters upsample from 16 to 24 bits. Or is the function of the dithering filter? 

 

Thanks 🙂

 

The number of bits depends on the DAC. My Denafrips Terminator can do 24bits / 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192KHz on all input and
1.536kHz on USB & I²S input. It doesn't matter for DSD, DSD is always 1 bit.

 

Here is a list with DACs bypass digital filtering:

 

Which DACs bypass digital filtering?

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14 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

Thanks 🙂

 

The number of bits depends on the DAC. My Denafrips Terminator can do 24bits / 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192KHz on all input and
1.536kHz on USB & I²S input. It doesn't matter for DSD, DSD is always 1 bit.

 

Here is a list with DACs bypass digital filtering:

 

Which DACs bypass digital filtering?

Wonderful! Thanks a lot!

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