Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

[further]

@kennyb123,

 

You might want to consider posting to the Comment section on the Hfi-Advice website on the MU1 review re: your observation of the AES/EBU comparison MU1 and K50 to get Christiaan's response.  He also did a review on Mola Mola Tambaqui with involvement of both servers as well.

 

Regarding Roon, I think server, renderer, DAC, input, and specific cable all play a role with Roon satisfaction.   I do not find Roon unlistenable, but find with my Lumin X1, I do prefer sound quality using the Lumin app for sound quality over Roon.  That was the case with my Small Green Computer and now my K50 servers.   Recently I have added a Makua with the Tambaqui DAC.   The ethernet connection is Roon Ready, thus using Mola Mola renderer when using that input.   I have noticed difference in presentation depending on ethernet cable--have so far used both Audio Sensibility and Sablon 2020.   I run ethernet from the DirectStream RJ45 port on the K50 to the Mola Mola.   Results are very enjoyable, but to the best of my knowledge I cannot defeat Roon playing on that input.  I have done some experimenting using USB and AES/EBU from the K50 to the Tambaqui inputs.   In these cases, I would then be using K50 player.   For USB cables, I have so far tried Triode Wire Labs and Wireworld Platinum 7 cables.   At this point it seems to me the USB Roon results are somewhat rounded and  softer.   One consideration though, is that I had not previously used the USB nor AES/EBU outputs and there may be changes coming with use of those inputs as power supplies and associated internal parts get more playing time.

 

Christiaan Punter does appear to prefer AES/EBU.   I had purchased some fairly inexpensive REDCO fabricated Mogami AES/EBU cables 8 years ago, but have not been in use.   I pulled one out and connected to K50 and Makua Tambaqui module.   I was startled how good it sounded, preferring it to the USB results so far.  I may now evaluate some additional AES/EBU options.

 

I have not been separately upsampling to either the X1 or Makua Tambaqui.   I briefly tried Roon and separately with the Lumin upsampling options with the X1 but preferred to use native to the X1.   After the Antipodes software updates are rolled out, I will probably revisit this with HQPlayer trial on both DACs.   Upsampling with the Tambaqui has been discussed here at AS, and at least one experienced HQPlayer poster indicating he could not detect a difference.  However, in my library I have a collection of 4 songs, Keith Greeninger,  from Blue Coast Music with each song presented in DSD64 and DSD128.   I believe that download was made available for listeners to compare.   I do notice a subtle improvement difference in favor of DSD12 on  all 4 songs.  

[kennyb123]

39 minutes ago, further said:

Regarding Roon, I think server, renderer, DAC, input, and specific cable all play a role with Roon satisfaction.   I do not find Roon unlistenable, but find with my Lumin X1, I do prefer sound quality using the Lumin app for sound quality over Roon. 

Saying Roon was “unlistenable” was a bit over the top.  I do listen to Roon/HQPlayer for music discovery.  Switching back to MPD or HQPlayer alone is like a breath of fresh air though.  I resisted trying MPD for months despite some friendly arm-twisting from @Fourlegsas I suspected Roon would be ruined for me once MPD laid bare the harm Roon had been doing.  I was right.  But Roon remains a great tool for music discovery, but I wouldn’t want it to be my only option.

 

I have found Roon/HQPlayer on my K30 to convey less of the harm Roon was doing with Roon Experimental mode on my Zenith Mk3.  I had hoped Antipodes two-tier in on box architecture might help lessen the harm Roon does, but with so many differences between the two boxes, it would be impossible to know what’s doing what.  

 

[further]

2 hours ago, further said:

 

Kenny, 

 

I too have used Roon for music exploration or general walk around the house music with the X1.

 

I have yet to use MPD.  I downloaded MaximumMPD on my M1 iMac.  After changing configuration Player setting on K50,  I can see the music on the app, but am not getting music to play on the app.  It's undoubtedly something simple I am missing doing.  Like HQPlayer, I thought I could wait and further explore after Antipodes pushes through the software updates, hopefully in near future.

 

[Cacto C]

Hi TheAttorney and kennyb123,

 

I assume you both had evaluated Aurender. e.g. W20SE, N20?

 

They look like the other side of the coin of the MU1. i.e. Proprietary OS, Fancy Power, support 8FS/16FS PGGB output, external clock, etc

 

What are your thoughts on the Aurender?

 

Cheers.

 

[TheAttorney]

The W20SE didn't make my shortlist because it was too expensive and some of its features didn't excite me. Much more a rival for the Statement or K50 than the MU1 I think.

 

I would have tried all of these rivals if it was easy to do, but the best I could find was one dealer who could demo MU1, Statement and Extreme at the same time (although unfortunately the Extreme was away being reviewed on the day I auditioned).

 

However, in the spirit of open-mindedness 😁, I did try PGGB against my HMS into DAVE. And PGGB didn't give me the wow factor that others have experienced, despite using the settings specifically recommended for DAVE. Certainly not enough wow to overcome the high faff factor (for me) of enormous files and RAM-intensive conversions. But others love PGGB so what do I know? This was before I tried MU1 vs Statement at the dealer.

 

I don't think the MU1 is at all suitable for PGGB, which is why I was at an important cross-roads when I tried PGGB - had I loved it I would have gone down a different path (maybe even a K30?).

[kennyb123]

On 8/23/2021 at 8:47 PM, further said:

I have yet to use MPD.  I downloaded MaximumMPD on my M1 iMac.  After changing configuration Player setting on K50,  I can see the music on the app, but am not getting music to play on the app.  It's undoubtedly something simple I am missing doing.  Like HQPlayer, I thought I could wait and further explore after Antipodes pushes through the software updates, hopefully in near future.

 

I got kind of lucky with MPD as I already had the app Glider on my iPhone.  This found my K30server and then allowed me to set the output to Antipodes.  I haven’t tried MaximumMPD so really can’t help there.

[kennyb123]

On 8/24/2021 at 4:47 AM, Cacto C said:

I assume you both had evaluated Aurender. e.g. W20SE, N20?

No Aurender never made my shortlist.  I listed my selection criteria in this post.  Aurender didn’t check enough of the boxes.  

 

It was a leap of faith to go with the K30.  It really exceeded all expectations and continues to do so.

[TheAttorney]

The display panel of my MU1 is showing that a software upgrade is available.

Anyone tried this yet? I'm expecting remote control support, but is there anything else?

 

I'm holding off because I don't want to confuse any potential sound changes with the burn-in phase of my power cord connectors upgrade (which have redefined my expectations on how long a component burn-in can take,  but after an elapsed 6 weeks, last night I felt I was finally there - I just hope it stays like that now). 

[Cacto C]

Does your Power Cord connect to the wall or a conditioner?

I updated the firmware successfully, took 8 minutes. It supports SPDIF output.

Added a remote control but I don't know where the controller is ;)

[haltermr]

Hi All;

Currently auditioning an MU1, replacing a nucleus+ and going into Tambaqui/Gryphon Essence/Rockport Atrias.

The midrange was markedly improved, and some funky higher frequency phase effects were eliminated. 

However, I noted a marked drop in bass; this really sounded like an actual attenuation in my system, rather that just the nucleus being overblown, and the MU1 flat.

Curious of others' experience with this?

[bluebeat]

On 9/7/2021 at 10:25 AM, TheAttorney said:

I'm holding off because I don't want to confuse any potential sound changes with the burn-in phase of my power cord connectors upgrade (which have redefined my expectations on how long a component burn-in can take,  but after an elapsed 6 weeks, last night I felt I was finally there - I just hope it stays like that now). 

@TheAttorney

The update took 7 to 8 minutes. I didn't notice any changes in sound, if there were any they're subtle - to my ears at least. On the other hand, I find it hard to tell. I'm still getting used to the MU1, and assessing what it does in my system. The Jorma AES cable I use is brandnew and still burning-in. The same goes for the AES input of my QX-5 Twenty. So, my experience doesn't help you that much, I'm afraid ... 😇

21 hours ago, haltermr said:

However, I noted a marked drop in bass; this really sounded like an actual attenuation in my system, rather that just the nucleus being overblown, and the MU1 flat. Curious of others' experience with this?

 

@haltermr

I never heard the Nucleus+. Before my MU1 I had a Euphony setup, with Roonserver running on a GB-BSi7HA-6500 Gigabyte Brix and an (Stylus) endpoint on a Dawson Canyon NUC, both with dedicated LPS's.

 

Bass performance definitely changed going to the MU1. To my ears it's more organic,, tunefull, nimble and precise. And it has more impact, it's more articulate. Certainly not flat. I'm quite taken by it, I found the bass performance lacking in the previous setup. It was a bit too woolley, there was just a bit too much push in the lower frequencies.

 

I think bass from the MU1 can certainly come across as attenuated, but in my experience there's a quality gain too. Of course it has to suite you. You just might prefer another sound signature. Christiaan Punter of Hifi-advice is spot on - I think, based on what I heard so far - in assessing the sound of the MU1. His appraisal and comparison of the MU1 and the Antipodes K50 might be of interest to you, it may reflect your experience.

 

Give it some time. Burn-in and getting used to might change your appreciation of the bass performance. Enjoy!

 

Marc

 

@haltermrPS impressive setup!

[haltermr]

Hi All;

I wound up purchasing the MU1. Looking at the photos of the internals gives me waves of nausea (my attraction to my Gryphon amp was its attention to detail in short circuit paths, and tidy engineering), but it sounds good. The midrange is a bit more rounded and solid, and the detail and imaging were excellent. I've found that with some speaker adjustment, my bass is sounding good. I have a preset for rock music where I lift the lower frequencies from 90hz down if I want a bit of emphasis. But for classical, especially dynamic, complex works like Mahler Symphonies, the Grimm was outstanding. I have been controlling volume through a Mola Mola Tambaqui, but frankly do not like doing this through the tiny push buttons. The Gold Disk has grown on me. Now that it can be controlled by an IR remote, it will become the control piece of the system. I have a strong feeling that when they release the internal Dac module, it is going to be extremely good, and eliminate the need for the Tambaqui. 

@aangen, have you taken delivery of your piece yet?

[haltermr]

1 minute ago, haltermr said:

Hi All;

I wound up purchasing the MU1. Looking at the photos of the internals gives me waves of nausea (my attraction to my Gryphon amp was its attention to detail in short circuit paths, and tidy engineering), but it sounds good. The midrange is a bit more rounded and solid, and the detail and imaging were excellent. I've found that with some speaker adjustment, my bass is sounding good. I have a preset for rock music where I lift the lower frequencies from 90hz down if I want a bit of emphasis. But for classical, especially dynamic, complex works like Mahler Symphonies, the Grimm was outstanding. I have been controlling volume through a Mola Mola Tambaqui, but frankly do not like doing this through the tiny push buttons. The Gold Disk has grown on me. Now that it can be controlled by an IR remote, it will become the control piece of the system. I have a strong feeling that when they release the internal Dac module, it is going to be extremely good, and eliminate the need for the Tambaqui. 

@aangen, have you taken delivery of your piece yet?

FYI, I had been comparing to a Roon Nucleus +.  I also tried inserting an Innuous PhoenixNet between the nucleus and the Tambaqui, but didn't hear a major improvement. At the end of the day, The Grimm was enough of an improvement to return the Nucleus +. Those who describe the native Roon sound as a bit thick and rounded are correct.  With the nucleus +, I also experienced some harshness on the top of vocals, which is solved by the MU1.  I also experienced significantly improved depth of imaging with the Grimm. The latter is pretty extraordinary, really. The i3 nuc in the Grimm is doing just fine running other endpoints throughout the house. I hope Grimm as a company is robust enough to keep up with upgrades and roon changes. It is interesting, though, that a lot of this is an investment into software as much as hardware, as well as a common belief with the developers on the goals of sound reproduction. I watched an interview in English, which helped me feel a bit validated about the expense of this unit. 

[FredM]

 

21 hours ago, haltermr said:

I wound up purchasing the MU1.

Congrats, lost of fun with your MU1. A bit late on your Tuesday question about bass, but I would have suggested to try an alternative speakers placement. Good to see this already work out for you! 👍
 

Ps. Perhaps nice to share, last week I had an appointment with an acoustic specialist. He helped with speaker placement and advice on acoustic treatment (with measurements etc). Upfront I hoped for a nice improvement, but the impact was far more than I could imagine, I wish I would have done this years ago (for interested Dutchies: https://acousticmatters.nl)

[aangen]

I have not received mine yet. Thanks for reminding me! I am going to call and find out what the eta is.

 

I am currently using a Pink Faun 3.16 to serve Roon via USB to my Gryphon Kalliope DAC. I was thinking of hooking the Pink Faun to an input on the MU1 and see how that sounds before setting up Roon on the MU1. Has anyone tried that? I have heard CD transports in particular are well served by the MU1 magical process.

[bluebeat]

On 9/12/2021 at 2:08 AM, haltermr said:

Hi All;

I wound up purchasing the MU1. Looking at the photos of the internals gives me waves of nausea (my attraction to my Gryphon amp was its attention to detail in short circuit paths, and tidy engineering), but it sounds good. The midrange is a bit more rounded and solid, and the detail and imaging were excellent. I've found that with some speaker adjustment, my bass is sounding good. I have a preset for rock music where I lift the lower frequencies from 90hz down if I want a bit of emphasis. But for classical, especially dynamic, complex works like Mahler Symphonies, the Grimm was outstanding. I have been controlling volume through a Mola Mola Tambaqui, but frankly do not like doing this through the tiny push buttons. The Gold Disk has grown on me. Now that it can be controlled by an IR remote, it will become the control piece of the system. I have a strong feeling that when they release the internal Dac module, it is going to be extremely good, and eliminate the need for the Tambaqui. 

@aangen, have you taken delivery of your piece yet?

@haltermr

 

Congratulations with your Mu1, glad you got the bass sorted.

 

I'm also interested in the Tambaqui, the combination with the Mu1 is appreciated by many. Did you try other dac's with the Mu1?

 

I'm not sure if the Tambaqui is right for my set up, with the slightly dry and analytical leaning Marten Miles 3. Maybe a Totaldac or another R2R will be a better match. However, at the moment the Mu1 breaths new life into my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, and that's quite exciting. And above that a new set of speakers (Miles 5) is coming my way, I will need to take all the changes in. I will hold off a new dac for now - the Mu2 might be in time and just right ... very curious about that. Given the qualities of the Mu1, it should be a top contender.

 

Enjoy your Mu1!

 

Cheers

 

Marc

[bluebeat]

On 9/12/2021 at 11:49 PM, FredM said:

👍

 

Ps. Perhaps nice to share, last week I had an appointment with an acoustic specialist. He helped with speaker placement and advice on acoustic treatment (with measurements etc). Upfront I hoped for a nice improvement, but the impact was far more than I could imagine, I wish I would have done this years ago (for interested Dutchies: https://acousticmatters.nl)

@FredM
I really should do that too. My room is far from ideal, acoustically. Thanks for your tip. I'll check it out.

 

Mar

[haltermr]

On 9/26/2021 at 1:38 AM, bluebeat said:

@haltermr

 

Congratulations with your Mu1, glad you got the bass sorted.

 

I'm also interested in the Tambaqui, the combination with the Mu1 is appreciated by many. Did you try other dac's with the Mu1?

 

I'm not sure if the Tambaqui is right for my set up, with the slightly dry and analytical leaning Marten Miles 3. Maybe a Totaldac or another R2R will be a better match. However, at the moment the Mu1 breaths new life into my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, and that's quite exciting. And above that a new set of speakers (Miles 5) is coming my way, I will need to take all the changes in. I will hold off a new dac for now - the Mu2 might be in time and just right ... very curious about that. Given the qualities of the Mu1, it should be a top contender.

 

Enjoy your Mu1!

 

Cheers

 

Marc

My impression of the Tambaqui is that it isn't cool or analytical, but it isn't warm either. It might have a slight accentuation in the treble where spatial details live, but I don't find it overly bright. I have a preset on Roon where I add some bass, 120hz and down, that I play with some rock and jazz. 

The compact size of the Tambaqui, and the fact that it comes with a pelican case means it is pretty easy for a dealer to send out for audition. Depending on where you live, you might be able to listen to it in your system. 

Like you, I'm pretty excited about the MU2. I wouldn't mind cutting down the number of boxes. (My wife likes the looks of the Tambaqui though)

[haltermr]

Saw on another forum that @aangen has taken delivery of his MU1. I will be curious of his impressions!

 

[aangen]

Yes sir. I finally have a chance to sit and listen for a bit. I have a Stealth Audio V18 Dream SE power cable into the unit, and a Stealth Audio Octava-T AES/EBU cable running into my Gryphon Kalliope DAC. That feeds into a Gryphon Pandora Preamp that feeds a Gryphon Antileon Evo Amp driving Vivid G1 Spirits. 
 

Prior to the arrival of the MU1 I was using a Pink Faun 3.16 (no X) to serve Roon to my DAC via one of PF’s high quality USB outputs. 
 

Last night I was in a poor mood as I could not make a Roon backup that lives on an external hard drive work with the MU1. Grimm sets externally mounted drives to read only mode and that may have been an issue. So I had to do a restore via Dropbox. That took nine plus hours. By the time I sat down to listen I was not really in a mood for it and didn’t really notice anything special. Tonight however I am noticing a very analog sound from almost everything. I’m a hard core vinyl guy and this MU1 seems like it could make staying in my chair a lot easier. Goosebumps at the moment.

 

I talked my audio guru, George Vatchnadze of Kyomi Audio in Chicago into looking into the MU1. I allowed him to test it out in his world to see what he thinks before sending it to me. So it came with Roon setup with his credentials. Changing them to mine seems to have caused a bit of an issue and so far it’s slow going getting support from Grimm. Perhaps I’m an instant gratification sort. No wait, I waited months for this. 
 

At any rate at the moment playing familiar music I am startled by what I am hearing. It’s quite stunning. Quite stunning. Analog, it sounds like vinyl. It is not similar to the Pink Faun, it is much better. I’ll think of the best standard “it sounds like” comments later. Right now I just want to listen. I have Roon playing songs at random and it’s fun to hear the different recordings and how they fill the room. These Vivid Spirits get right out of the way and let the room fill with whatever the artist had in mind. Wowza!

[MarcelNL]

there may be a bit of a time difference working against you for support!

 

[bluebeat]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:27 AM, haltermr said:

My impression of the Tambaqui is that it isn't cool or analytical, but it isn't warm either. It might have a slight accentuation in the treble where spatial details live, but I don't find it overly bright. I have a preset on Roon where I add some bass, 120hz and down, that I play with some rock and jazz. 

The compact size of the Tambaqui, and the fact that it comes with a pelican case means it is pretty easy for a dealer to send out for audition. Depending on where you live, you might be able to listen to it in your system. 

Like you, I'm pretty excited about the MU2. I wouldn't mind cutting down the number of boxes. (My wife likes the looks of the Tambaqui though)

@haltermr

Thanks for your impressions of the Tambaqui. That helps. I'm not sure how it would fit in my system because of this remark in the review of Michael Lavorgna of the Tambaqui: "the Ayre / Mola Mola combination offered a bit too much of a good thing in terms of resolution and clarity where music could adopt a hardness that I found distracting." He's using the Ayre EX-8, not the AX-5 Twenty I have, but still.

 

Listening to it myself in my system is of course the way to go. And I will do that, in time. Getting one in for a audition shouldn't be much of a problem as I live in The Netherlands and work in the town were the Tambaqui is made ...

 

Cheers,

 

Marc

[FredM]

On 9/26/2021 at 9:44 AM, bluebeat said:

@FredM
I really should do that too. My room is far from ideal, acoustically. Thanks for your tip. I'll check it out.

Hi Marc, in your other post I noticed you live in the Netherlands, I can fully recommend Acoustic Matters. Besides kindly helping privately, the expert (Ben) is also reputable among dealers and manufacturers (eg. at Siltech/CrystalConnect, demo rooms at Dutch Audio Event and for the TRPTK label).
 

Given the distance to the Groningen province, perhaps a visit can be combined when he’s up north (at Mola Mola?). He also offers a remote service on his site, but I haven’t experienced that. Please feel free to pm if you have further questions.

[FredM]

11 hours ago, aangen said:

Goosebumps at the moment.

Congrats with your MU1, happy you like it. Experiencing goosebumps is just awesome imho, it really underlines the emotional connection with the music, I still have them regularly, very enjoyable 🙂
 

11 hours ago, aangen said:

I’ll think of the best standard “it sounds like” comments later.

That’s funny, I also found it hard to grab and describe the sound. Looking forward at your further listening experience 👍

[haltermr]

13 hours ago, aangen said:

Yes sir. I finally have a chance to sit and listen for a bit. I have a Stealth Audio V18 Dream SE power cable into the unit, and a Stealth Audio Octava-T AES/EBU cable running into my Gryphon Kalliope DAC. That feeds into a Gryphon Pandora Preamp that feeds a Gryphon Antileon Evo Amp driving Vivid G1 Spirits. 
 

Prior to the arrival of the MU1 I was using a Pink Faun 3.16 (no X) to serve Roon to my DAC via one of PF’s high quality USB outputs. 
 

Last night I was in a poor mood as I could not make a Roon backup that lives on an external hard drive work with the MU1. Grimm sets externally mounted drives to read only mode and that may have been an issue. So I had to do a restore via Dropbox. That took nine plus hours. By the time I sat down to listen I was not really in a mood for it and didn’t really notice anything special. Tonight however I am noticing a very analog sound from almost everything. I’m a hard core vinyl guy and this MU1 seems like it could make staying in my chair a lot easier. Goosebumps at the moment.

 

I talked my audio guru, George Vatchnadze of Kyomi Audio in Chicago into looking into the MU1. I allowed him to test it out in his world to see what he thinks before sending it to me. So it came with Roon setup with his credentials. Changing them to mine seems to have caused a bit of an issue and so far it’s slow going getting support from Grimm. Perhaps I’m an instant gratification sort. No wait, I waited months for this. 
 

At any rate at the moment playing familiar music I am startled by what I am hearing. It’s quite stunning. Quite stunning. Analog, it sounds like vinyl. It is not similar to the Pink Faun, it is much better. I’ll think of the best standard “it sounds like” comments later. Right now I just want to listen. I have Roon playing songs at random and it’s fun to hear the different recordings and how they fill the room. These Vivid Spirits get right out of the way and let the room fill with whatever the artist had in mind. Wowza!

I'm really enjoying my MU1, especially with classical. I also enjoy the functionality of the gold dial on top. It now controls my audio and video, and works very will in this regard. Curious what your guru at Kyomi thought, given he is an Aurender and Lumin dealer...

For me, I wanted to keep the Roon interface, but I wanted better sound. My audio guru swears by Aurender for sound, but the interface wasn't adequate for me....