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Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players


FredM

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  • 4 months later...

I still have the MU1 in my sights as a potential upgrade to my existing tweaked NUC with Euphony Stylus server,

But Covid restrictions has meant that my intended 3-way comparison of MU1, Innuos Statement and Taiko Mini Extreme have been pushed into the new year.

 

And as the Mini has taken a priority back-step in Taiko's pipeline, the comparison will probably be with the Extreme itself. I have no intention of buying the Extreme because of excessive size, weight and cost, but I am nevertheless curious how the MU1 will compare.

 

One of the features I like about the MU1 is that volume can controlled from the roon app, but the actual volume change is made by the MU1 (maybe in the fpga?). Which is important because roon's internal volume control significantly impacts SQ IMO.

 

Whilst waiting for this comparison, can anyone allay a couple of nagging concerns:

 

1. How does the MU1 perform with an m-scaler/DAVE DAC? Which has it's own fpga-based upscaler that upscales to a greater extent than MU1's. To reduce box count, I'd quite like to drop the m-scaler if the MU1 makes it largely redundant. But the details of the upscaling process are very different and I don't know how this multi-way synergy would work.

 

2. Bearing in mind that roon's internal volume control sounds poor IMO, has anyone tried other roon DSP functions such as PEQ or cross-feed? It would be a big bonus if the MU1's magic somehow managed to minimise any loss of transparency in roon's DSP.

 

 

 

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On 12/4/2020 at 4:00 PM, matthias said:

Interesting to include in your comparison would be a source with a good USB output into a Chord Hugo M Scaler.

Basically the MU1 is an Intel NUC with a Grimm reclocking/up-/downsampling board and AES/SPDIF output.

I've already demonstrated to myself that the M-Scaler's USB input is very susceptible to upstream differences.

At the dealer's, the MU1's AES output will be compared to the Statement's and Extreme's USB outputs (both top notch apparently and not needing additional re-clockers etc).

 

If the MU1 does well in this comparison, I'm aiming to to take it for a home trial against my tweaked NUC with ISORegen and Sablon 2020 USB cables. Actually, I'm very pleased with my NUC source - Euphony Stylus seems to get the best out of it. I'm only considering an upgrade because... it's what audiophiles do 🙂. And to reduce spaghetti.

 

If the MU1 doesn't do well, then I'm back to square one, as the Extreme and (to a lesser extent) the Statement are too big and heavy for my downsizing aspirations.

 

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For the comparisons at the dealer, I'll be using whatever the dealer has set up. Which most likely will be Roon on Extreme and whatever default Innuos use for their servers. I'll bring along my own music files on a thumb drive in case I can't find what I want from the dealer's selection. The fact that TAS sounds better Roon is immaterial for this comparison. If Extreme+Roon doesn't easily win this comparison then something is seriously wrong.

 

I'll bring my own M-scaler/DAVE and HEK SE headphones as the downstream components. But while I'm there, I may as well try out the new T+A DAC/Headphone amp that the dealer is raving about.

 

I've looked at all the recommended alternatives from Antipodes, Pink Faun etc. Most of them (or at least their top models) are bigger and more expensive than the MU1. But the main issue is getting them all together for a comparison. And getting home trials from several different dealers is a major hassle in time, effort and negotiation - and certainly not free in terms of shipping and travel.

 

So I have to draw a short list to keep me sane. And from everything I've read, the MU1 has a good chance of doing the giant killer act. So although the Extreme should win in absolute terms, the MU1 will hopefully display it's own unique charms and musical enjoyment that hold its own against even the most expensive competition (which is what the dealer has already hinted at). If it doesn't work out like that, then I'll have to regroup and think again - but with lots of newly gained experience of top class servers.

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1 hour ago, matthias said:

What I absolutely dislike about the MU1 is that it is more or less bound to Roon.

 

Well, as Roon has the best UI bar far, that's a good thing - AS LONG AS the MU1 with Roon can beat competing servers with competing apps. I happen to have a lifetime Roon license, but currently only using for background listening.

 

There's some speculation that the Grimm team are considering writing their own app (as well as an internal DAC module and probably all sorts of other goodies). But I can't rely on speculation and good intentions, so my comparison will assume that the SQ I hear now will not necessarily be improved in the future.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, FredM said:

With the recent firmware update up- and down sampling to 2FS is now supported, this matches the AES input of your DAC (also both AES outputs are volume controlled since the last firmware)

I've only just realised the significance of this.

My DAVE AES input's limit is 96kHz. And I've just checked that my M-Scaler doesn't even have an AES input!

Which severely restricts the options I have with MU1's AES output.

 

The proof of the pudding will be in the hearing, but these limitations (not particularly MU1's fault) mean that I may not get the full potential of the MU1 with my Chord equipment, so may need a Plan B sooner than I had expected ☹️.

 

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  • 4 months later...

I'm still waiting for the MU2, with the hope that Grimm can provide great synergy between its FPGA and internal DAC, e.g. by upscaling higher than is practical via its AES output - the end result to surpass the likes of Tambaqui. If the MU2 can pull that off, then it will be top contender for my next purchase.

 

Ideally, to fulfill my single-box-solution aspirations, the MU2 would also include a top quality headphone output, but unfortunately that option does not appear to be on the horizon.

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On 5/5/2021 at 12:52 PM, Kenkuan said:

I was told MU2 could be one year away, if you can wait😅

 

I don't really have a choice - the MU1 isn't a good fit for my existing DAVE system, as detailed a while back.

And the other main contender, Mini-Extreme, also keeps disappearing into the horizon.

And others like K50/K30/Statement I suspect won't quite deliver what I'm looking for.

 

On a happier note, some recent free config changes to Euphony Stylus on my tweaked NUC server have given unexpectedly big improvements 🙂. From a purely SQ point of view, I feel I could live with this indefinitely, but I do still want to reduce my box count and spaghetti count, and any change in that direction also must improve SQ to make it worthwhile.

 

 

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19 hours ago, FredM said:

Besides the AES/EBU output, did you know that the MU1 now also has a S/PDIF digital out? Perhaps this is useful in your situation. Link to announcement

DAVE doesn't have an RCA S/PDIF input, but it does have BNC and Optical. Of these, BNC has the highest rate at up to 384 kHz. I expect a converter box/plug would work, but it's just another bit of faff that I'd rather not do.

 

I'm not discounting the idea of getting an MU1 and then upgrading to MU2 in the future - Grimm seems to make that option very easy. I'm just setting my own expectations to a more realistic level of what I can achieve right now.

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  • 4 weeks later...
8 hours ago, Evo1668 said:

I am really looking forward to this coming weekend - as have an MU1 coming to visit

And one weekend later I will be visiting a dealer to demo MU1 vs Statement and possibly Taiko Extreme. With a subsequent home trial if the demo shows promise. I'm taking my DAVE and headphones with me. And will also be trying various T+A headphone components while I'm there.

 

If the MU1 works out, then I've counted I can have 1 box + 1 cable to replace 4 boxes and 7 cables (NUC, ISORegen, M-Scaler, 3-rail Power Supply, 2xUSB cables, 2xBNC cables, 3xDC cables), which a a good step towards my downsizing objectives.

 

The only thing that spoils it is that MU1 doesn't have WiFi input (my NUC does), so I will then have to add a WiFi bridge and ethernet cable back into the mix (plus possibly a super switch and super cable) - unless I can persuade Grimm to activate the WiFi that I believe is already built-in to the NUC board they use. However that WiFi limitation is the same for most top end servers, so I'll have the same issue whichever top end server I go for.

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17 hours ago, Fourlegs said:

I wonder, is your three rail power supply feeding dc to your Dave 😜 ? That has been just about the biggest improvement in my system in recent years.

Don't be put off my the MU1 not having wifi. I would certainly not want an RF transmitter in my streamer. 

The 3 rails power NUC, IR and M-Scaler. I have no doubt that a DC 4 powering DAVE would be a major upgrade, but it is also a majorly big and expensive box that does nothing to help me downsize ☹️. Not out of the question in the future if I stick with DAVE, but I may not stick with DAVE if the MU2 DAC component turns out to be as good as its makers expect.

 

It's "common knowledge" that wifi is bad for hifi. But Euphony Stylus on my NUC has an option to disable networking during play (after buffering the music tracks) - and I can't reliably tell the difference whether wifi is active or not. So to my mind it is possible for certain wifi implementations to not be any worse than ethernet and anyway I'm prepared to take a slight hit for the sake of convenience (as long as it is very slight). If Grimm can make Roon sound great, maybe they can do the same for wifi? Most likely through, they won't want to be bothered with my request, so I'll need a solution like FredM has suggested.

 

15 hours ago, FredM said:

When a wifi connection is preferred, you could use a TP Link TL-WR802N. You can set this small device as a ‘client’, after it is connected with your wireless home network (quick search on ‘how to’), just connect a short network cable between the TP Link ‘client’ and MU1. The great thing about this device is that it is powered via USB. So use the USB out from the MU1, et voila, you have a clean direct feed as a bonus 👍

 

Thank you for that - it looks like a good, simple solution.  A USB dongle with antenna would be even simpler, but I'm not sure that linux-based systems (which I assume MU1 to be) could support networking into a USB port. Anyway, I have options, but any box with an ethernet cable is subject to improvement, as SackATK has demonstrated - and my natural audiophile tendency would be to faff around with tweaking it. The big plus of integrated wifi is that there's not much to tweak 🙂.

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Nenon said:

I might be stating the obvious here, but keep in mind that the DAVE sounds very different via USB and vis AES or SPDIF.

Fair enough, but the point about the MU1 is that you HAVE to use AES (or the recently added rca socket spdif) in order to use it's all-important FPGA output that provides all the magic. Whereas the Statement has a great USB output, so in both cases we were giving each server the best chance - even if DAVE may treat them differently.

 

FWIW, the supplied USB cable was a pricey TQ Diamond and the AES was a pricey Audioquest Diamond.

 

Also supplied was a no-name, but solidly made, AES to BNC converter cable that connected to DAVE's BNC input. 

This didn't sound quite as good as the (probably much more expensive) Audioquest,  which re-enforces that cables make a difference.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My MU1 impressions - Round 3. Look&feel and practicalities.

 

The MU1 in real life looks just like I expected from the photos.

It doesn't scream heavy weight "high end" extravagance. It's more about simple, restrained elegance.

Grimm wisely chose well to give the gold disc a very matt finish so it doesn't look too blingey against the matt black enclosure.

That restrained gold disc helps give a Japanese Zen-like vibe to the minimalist enclosure. With the display switched off in standby mode and cables hidden round the back, the MU1 doesn't even look much like a hifi component - which resulted in an unexpectedly high WAF rating from my wife.

 

The display is clear and unexpectedly useful. It's great to use Roon's "music magazine" UI for discovery etc, but sometimes I want to just listen to music, and for those times I queue up a couple of albums, enable roon-radio, and then close my control laptop. The MU1 display shows, amongst other things, the artist/album/track/progress and one can pause/restart by pressing the gold disc. Even better would be if one could skip track forward and back - I understand this feature will come with the IR Remote Control functionality due in the next firmware release (due around August).

 

My downsizing objective insists that networking is via WiFi (direct to my broadband router in another room), so I don't have to bother with long ethernet cables, super switches, super clocks, super power supplies etc etc. The tiny Wifi dongle recommended by Grimm (TP-link WR802N) is matcbbox sized and works better than I could have hoped for: it's powered by one of MU1's USB ports, with the supplied ethernet cable plugged into the ethernet socket. It consumes less than 0.5W power and automatically comes off and on when MU1 is put in/out of standby. But best of all, I can barely tell the difference in SQ (when playng local music files) whether or not this dongle is active - not bad for £26 including the skinny USB and ethernet cables. There could be some wishful thinking clouding my judgement here. In a future firmware release (after remote control), Grimm are aiming to provide USB-only WiFi support, at which point I will be able to try an even simpler WiFi solution.

 

The MU1 consumes about 17W AC power when playing music (no DSP), which drops slightly to 16W when music stops.

And drops to just under 5W in standby mode. Before removing the power cord, the instructions are to press a tiny button round the back. This definitely does something because the LED light goes out, but interestingly the power consumption stays at 5W, so I'm guessing that this micro switch isolates a particularly sensitive bit of circuitry, without fully switching off the whole unit, which leads me onto the fuse....

 

The back fuse drawer contains 2 fuses (630mA and, unusually for AC, rated as FAST BLOW). The first one you come to is a spare. All this is important because I've confirmed to myself that the fuse does impact SQ (I'm a committed fuse-o-phile, so this should be no surprise). More about that on my 4th and final round about cables and tweaking.

 

Any downsides?

 

Not much. I find the LED light, even at its lowest setting, too bright for night-time listening. Grimm told me it can't be set any lower with current hardware, so this won't  be changed any time soon. I've carefully dabbed the tip of the LED with a black marker pen and this helps tone down the brightness.

 

The main display is also too bright for my liking (to be fair, most manufacturers' LED/displays are too bright for me). Grimm are aiming to add some adjustment for this at a future firmware release (after the remote control one).

 

In short, I'm very happy with my MU1 🙂.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Kenkuan said:

So far, I've gather from some of the helpful feedback in this forum that synergies can be gotten to ekk out "something" extra by using the PhoenixNet and Sablon AES. Really intrigues me... 

 

May I know what DACs do you folks use with MU1? 

My MU1 goes AES direct to a DAVE DAC/headphone amp.

 

But I think it's an oversimplification to imply that PhoenixNet or Sablon are the only things that have great synergy with the MU1.

For example, a while back someone raved over the Shunyata Omega AES cable. I would have liked to try that one, but its price was way more than I'm prepared to pay for a single cable.

 

From what I've learned so far, the MU1 is affected by much the same surrounding components as any another digital device I've come across. I had wished it wasn't so. Because the MU1 had successfully isolated the noise created by Roon, I did wonder whether it could also isolate the noise from the mains supply etc. It would have saved me much money if I could have connected stock everything to the MU1.

 

But I'm not complaining - making Roon sound so good is a big step further than just about any other manufacturer has managed to achieve (I don't think the $25k Extreme would be a fair comparison here).

 

 

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7 hours ago, SackATK said:

For your next tweak, I would highly recommend a very good network switch designed for audio. 

From many posts here at AS, I have no doubt than super switches and super ethernet cables can make a big difference to networked hifi. And several people have raved over the PhoenixNet, so I'm sure it's one of the best. But some still say that disconnecting the network entirely from the server (after buffering the music file) sounds best of all. So even the best switch/cable is still not perfect.

 

But as I stated in earlier posts, I've bypassed all that cable spaghetti by using a WiFi dongle that connects by WiFi to the broadband router in another room. This dongle's impact on SQ is insignificant compared to say, upgrading the fuse - and I've proven this to myself by unplugging the dongle whilst listening to a local music file - I can't reliably tell the difference. TBH, I do hear differences, but I can't reliably say which one I prefer. For just £26 that must be the bargain of the century.

 

It is possible that once I restart streaming services like Qobuz, I might then notice more clearly what impact this WiFi dongle is having, but in the meantime I really don't care and just enjoy what's in front of me 🙂.

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  • 1 month later...
3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

I upscale all my music to 16FS so this would be another reason I’d have to eliminate the Grimm from my shortlist.

 

I think he’s right though that the Grimm might be the better choice for some people.  Like if they have an older DAC that accepts only as high as 4S on AES, then this could be a great match.  USB is where all the action is happening though on newer DACs (for the most part).  I think a server with more options will be more future proof.

 

 

Being a HMS/DAVE owner, I was also concerned that MU1's 4FS would be at a disadvantage against my existing 16FS. 

But as described in earlier posts, my concerns were unfounded - 4FS out of MU1 easily beat 16FS out of the HMS. This I think is more to do with the inherent goodness of the MU1 server vs my previous NUC than it has to do with any failure of HMS' up-scaling.

 

The K50 is definitely more flexible, so more future-proof in some ways. However, for my downsizing objective to reduce box count, the built-in DAC option (MU2) coming up next year for MU1 owners will eliminate the digital interface entirely. So it won't matter what FS is used, as I'm sure the designers will choose the best FS for their built-in DAC, without cable limitations.

 

I'm not trying to change your mind or objectives because they all make sense, just again reminding that relying on past experience is fine to a point, but it's also good to be open-minded when coming across a company that doesn't necessarily follow current trends and dares to do things differently.

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The W20SE didn't make my shortlist because it was too expensive and some of its features didn't excite me. Much more a rival for the Statement or K50 than the MU1 I think.

 

I would have tried all of these rivals if it was easy to do, but the best I could find was one dealer who could demo MU1, Statement and Extreme at the same time (although unfortunately the Extreme was away being reviewed on the day I auditioned).

 

However, in the spirit of open-mindedness 😁, I did try PGGB against my HMS into DAVE. And PGGB didn't give me the wow factor that others have experienced, despite using the settings specifically recommended for DAVE. Certainly not enough wow to overcome the high faff factor (for me) of enormous files and RAM-intensive conversions. But others love PGGB so what do I know? This was before I tried MU1 vs Statement at the dealer.

 

I don't think the MU1 is at all suitable for PGGB, which is why I was at an important cross-roads when I tried PGGB - had I loved it I would have gone down a different path (maybe even a K30?).

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  • 2 weeks later...

The display panel of my MU1 is showing that a software upgrade is available.

Anyone tried this yet? I'm expecting remote control support, but is there anything else?

 

I'm holding off because I don't want to confuse any potential sound changes with the burn-in phase of my power cord connectors upgrade (which have redefined my expectations on how long a component burn-in can take,  but after an elapsed 6 weeks, last night I felt I was finally there - I just hope it stays like that now). 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/3/2021 at 10:44 PM, edwardsean said:

All may serious listening is done with locally stored files wavs that are heavily preprocessed for my system. 

Does the MU1 have built in player software that can access a local drive like the dCS Bartok, or does it depend exclusively on Roon?

 

There's no other app (that's visible), but the MU1 does come with a couple of shared folders (including the music folder used by roon) that are visible on your home network). So you can manually copy files onto the MU1.

 

When I received my demo MU1, I just logged onto the pre-installed roon with my account and used Windows explorer to copy my FLAC and WAV files from the master music folder on my Windows laptop to the shared music folder on MU1. Roon then automatically adds these to its own library (this takes a long time so start with a few files to prove the process).

 

I didn't bother with roon backup and restore to populate MU1. I just copied the music files as above, which means that i did lose any roon-specific metadata that I may have had on my old roon database, but that was minimal so it didn't bother me to rebuild roon database from scratch.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/28/2021 at 8:20 PM, FredM said:

Important firmware update for MU1

From the Grimm website: “Roon Labs has announced that an update in November demands extra software that was not installed in many Roon servers based on Linux, and this also affects the MU1.

 

I get concerned that SQ may be impacted every time Roon does an update, although the small Roon updates since I got my MU1 have been fine. This upcoming one on November 3rd has every chance of impacting SQ, possibly in a good way as it's claimed to improve performance on Linux. We shall see.

 

FWIW, I felt the SQ of the latest MU1 s/w update resulted in a fractionally smoother/darker presentation. This could just be imagination as I was comparing to the memory of the previous night's listening, and there's no way to return to the previous version to be sure. I couldn't decide if this new presentation was better or worse than before - just slightly different.

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