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Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players


FredM

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13 minutes ago, Rafcam said:

Can’t we turn most if not all of that background activity off when we’re listening to music? 

I would expect the “feature rich experience” is the huge umbrella of DSP that is available from the Roon Server.  I personally have never enabled any of it.  That along with other recommendations others have made in this forum will help to mitigate much of the traffic of concern. 

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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Roon does a lot aside from the DSP in it's normal operations. Even with the sound tweaks in place it is still arranging/collating/displaying a ton of information. The gigabit connection ensures that the performance is smooth. An example of network issues (not DSP related) would be if the remote was losing connection often or being sluggish in display. Having a gigabit connection is a way to make sure the basic setup is sound. As @aangen pointed out, this does not mean the ISP speed needs to be at gig but the connection to the Roon core should, which in this thread is the MU1/2 (if it is used as a core).

 

Apologies if I am interrupting or distracting but as with all readers on this site, technology discussion is universally interesting.

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26 minutes ago, SQFIRST said:

Roon does a lot aside from the DSP in it's normal operations. Even with the sound tweaks in place it is still arranging/collating/displaying a ton of information. The gigabit connection ensures that the performance is smooth. An example of network issues (not DSP related) would be if the remote was losing connection often or being sluggish in display. Having a gigabit connection is a way to make sure the basic setup is sound. As @aangen pointed out, this does not mean the ISP speed needs to be at gig but the connection to the Roon core should, which in this thread is the MU1/2 (if it is used as a core).

 

Apologies if I am interrupting or distracting but as with all readers on this site, technology discussion is universally interesting.

 

Roon has had some performance issues on the server, the server equally may require a reasonably fast connection if it is connected to a remote location for your music storage. But if the storage is within the roon server or streamed, there isn't (or shouldn't be) much data being transferred to the client remote UI). After all, if I display the album art cover or track list, that's pretty much static text, a static image and then some updates for the position within the track. Seriously I think there's more data on an average web page these days with bloated Javascript ad-tech. 

 

You need a reliable network, but I don't believe you need 1gb, parts of my network aren't gb wired and I have no issues with the client or streaming. Only if my network has any configuration issues or problems will I see isses with the client freezing - and that's just the music stream stopping. 

 

I've had performance issues adding new albums to my library from the remote UI - but that's all backend server. I performed a library cleanup in settings and that's cleared that issue for me. 

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19 minutes ago, dsyzling said:

 

Roon has had some performance issues on the server, the server equally may require a reasonably fast connection if it is connected to a remote location for your music storage. But if the storage is within the roon server or streamed, there isn't (or shouldn't be) much data being transferred to the client remote UI). After all, if I display the album art cover or track list, that's pretty much static text, a static image and then some updates for the position within the track. Seriously I think there's more data on an average web page these days with bloated Javascript ad-tech. 

 

You need a reliable network, but I don't believe you need 1gb, parts of my network aren't gb wired and I have no issues with the client or streaming. Only if my network has any configuration issues or problems will I see isses with the client freezing - and that's just the music stream stopping. 

 

I've had performance issues adding new albums to my library from the remote UI - but that's all backend server. I performed a library cleanup in settings and that's cleared that issue for me. 

Agree. Recent updates certainly improved performance. Even iPad app WiFi isn’t having as many drops or hangs as in the past. 

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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  • 2 weeks later...

Out of curiosity, who has experienced the Sonore Optical Module? Perhaps even compared with other devices?
 

https://www.sonore.us/opticalModule-Deluxe.html

 

Currently I’m using a normal/basic fiber converter, which is powered via the 5V USB port from the MU1. I prefer to use fiber isolation powered by the MU1’s 5V output.
 

As the Sonore Optical Module accepts 5-9V input, I’m wondering if it could be an interesting replacement. I’m not aware of other ‘audiophile’ 5V fiber converters. Keen to hear your thoughts 🙂

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Might be worth posing your question over on the linked forum you've highlighted as well.  That is in addition to your specific hardware and cabling.  As I understand it, using fiber, as opposed to Ethernet, poses it's own set of issues. 

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

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I’m planning on using this to connect to MU2 

I’m also planing on unscrewing Ethernet port connector on the back of MU2 and running hi quality Ethernet cablel directly to the network port of MU1/MU2 Computer port that’s inside the case , bypassing internal Ethernet cable 

 

 

this battery back provides 20 hour of working time.

IMG_0029.jpeg

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Why on earth would you unscrew the ethernetport of the MU2?

 

I also never fiddled with fibre connections. The benefit of galvanic isolation doesn't outweight introducing noisy converters imho. Proper switches already offer good galvanic isolation by the way.

"You should create the circumstances in which happiness can be made possible" - Herman van Veen

 

For info about my setup, look at my profile

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12 minutes ago, Ronnie112 said:

Why on earth would you unscrew the ethernetport of the MU2?

 

I also never fiddled with fibre connections. The benefit of galvanic isolation doesn't outweight introducing noisy converters imho. Proper switches already offer good galvanic isolation by the way.

Agree.

 

Seems like a risky proposition which would certainly invalidate your warranty.

 

I have the MU2 on order. It sounded pretty special to me without such modifications. 

 

If you want to take the risk then of course it would be interesting to hear whether you hear any improvement though.

Puritan Audio PSM156 > Puritan Ultimate Cables / English Electric 8Switch > Grimm MU1 >  Sablon Bocchino Palladium Digital XLR > DCS Bartók > Siltech Classic Legend 680i XLR > Feliks Envy Performance (WE300B + Melz 1578) (Elrog MO 300B + RCA 5692 Red Base) + Quad Brimar 6J5G L63 (dual adapters) + Brimar CV1988 > Cosmic Cables Mercury OCC Silver > HifiMan Susvara > My Head

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11 hours ago, FredM said:

Out of curiosity, who has experienced the Sonore Optical Module? Perhaps even compared with other devices?
 

https://www.sonore.us/opticalModule-Deluxe.html

 

Currently I’m using a normal/basic fiber converter, which is powered via the 5V USB port from the MU1. I prefer to use fiber isolation powered by the MU1’s 5V output.
 

As the Sonore Optical Module accepts 5-9V input, I’m wondering if it could be an interesting replacement. I’m not aware of other ‘audiophile’ 5V fiber converters. Keen to hear your thoughts 🙂

 

Optical Module Deluxe was one of the devices I tried in the early days of trying to fool my dante cards into believing they were on a 1Gb/s network, however, they do not "cut the mustard" when compared to the EtherRegen. Removing the OMD from the ethernet path returned the clarity and dynamics and lack of distortion (really small amounts in the highs) in my system with EtherRegens in the path.

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All, many thanks for your swift responses 😀

 

9 hours ago, Datka said:

I’m planning on using this to connect to MU2 

I’m also planing on unscrewing Ethernet port connector on the back of MU2 and running hi quality Ethernet cablel directly to the network port of MU1/MU2 Computer port that’s inside the case , bypassing internal Ethernet cable 

 

 

this battery back provides 20 hour of working time.

IMG_0029.jpeg


If you tried the OMD with the MU1-2 already, I’m interested in your findings (do you have other network devices in the chain?)

 

When possible, perhaps you could try the 5V USB Output from the MU as a comparison. If you have a USB to DC plug cable laying around of course.

 

1 hour ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Optical Module Deluxe was one of the devices I tried in the early days of trying to fool my dante cards into believing they were on a 1Gb/s network, however, they do not "cut the mustard" when compared to the EtherRegen. Removing the OMD from the ethernet path returned the clarity and dynamics and lack of distortion (really small amounts in the highs) in my system with EtherRegens in the path.


Ah thanks for sharing, if the ER is considered to have more impact than the OMD, it gives an valuable image of the OMD performance (where Hans Beekhuyzen did remove his ER in favour of the Muon Pro, in an attempt to understand a ‘hierarchy’. But the Muon Pro would be another route , I’m keen to see/learn if the OMD might be an option to discover now ). Did you try the OMD with the MU? 

 

9 hours ago, Ronnie112 said:

Why on earth would you unscrew the ethernetport of the MU2?

 

I also never fiddled with fibre connections. The benefit of galvanic isolation doesn't outweight introducing noisy converters imho. Proper switches already offer good galvanic isolation by the way.


When I started using fiber, I preferred it compared with a normal house hold network setup. I also have a spare Netgear switch (with fiber and RJ45 ports) laying around, I guess could just try it with a network cable. The switch has an internal PSU and its own mains cable (so no 5V USB option). Or I cloud have a look at an all RJ45 Netgear switch, I believe in an Alpha Audio test a small Netgear model was doing very good (and can likely be powered with 5V)

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I have the Small Green device. I used it for a while. Last time I reached for it, it didn’t work. Odd. I have a Muon Pro and that seems to negate the need to worry about fiber anymore. This week I took out my EtherREGEN and replaced it with a LHY SW-6. It seems fine. 
 

A friend suggested I take the MUON out and use something more ordinary as a cable to fully appreciate what it and the SW-6 do. I may try that before the end of the year.

 

So the new plan is to fire up a cutting torch and make a hole you could pass an Ethernet cable through? I’m going to pass on re-engineering Eelcos work. 

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19 hours ago, Ronnie112 said:

Why on earth would you unscrew the ethernetport of the MU2?

 

I also never fiddled with fibre connections. The benefit of galvanic isolation doesn't outweight introducing noisy converters imho. Proper switches already offer good galvanic isolation by the way.

 

All RJ45 ethernet ports are galvanically isolated (not just a subset)

It’s part of the ethernet standard introduced years ago to stop potentially dangerous electrical power escaping along the ethernet cable…

Grimm Mu-1 > Mola Mola Makua/DAC > Luxman m900u > Vivid Audio Kaya 90

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So the new plan is to fire up a cutting torch and make a hole you could pass an Ethernet cable through? 
I guess you could do that or you can simply unscrew Ethernet port connector and run muon cable straight to the motherboard. 
computer inside MU1/MU2 is off the shelf industrial i3 computer , i’ll be surprised if it has any sort of galvanic isolation built in. 
I will test my idea at some point once I have my MU2 and it’s fully burned in . 

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@turbofeet seems to have a good justification for wanting to bypass the internal cable.  as this pic shows, the internal cable is just a terminated cable plugged into rj45 jacks at both ends (the bottom left of the pic -- a bit blurry -- is the connection to the jack on the chassis).  the plan is minimally invasive and completely reversible.

 

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(1) holo audio red (hqp naa) > chord dave > luxman cl-38uc/mq-88uc > kef reference 1
(2) simaudio moon mind 2 > chord qutest > luxman sq-n150 > sennheiser hd600
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3 minutes ago, jcn3 said:

@turbofeet seems to have a good justification for wanting to bypass the internal cable.  as this pic shows, the internal cable is just a terminated cable plugged into rj45 jacks at both ends (the bottom left of the pic -- a bit blurry -- is the connection to the jack on the chassis).  the plan is minimally invasive and completely reversible.

 

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Yes I would certainly be interested to hear if there was any improvement. Not a risk I would take personally but that's just my view 😉 

Puritan Audio PSM156 > Puritan Ultimate Cables / English Electric 8Switch > Grimm MU1 >  Sablon Bocchino Palladium Digital XLR > DCS Bartók > Siltech Classic Legend 680i XLR > Feliks Envy Performance (WE300B + Melz 1578) (Elrog MO 300B + RCA 5692 Red Base) + Quad Brimar 6J5G L63 (dual adapters) + Brimar CV1988 > Cosmic Cables Mercury OCC Silver > HifiMan Susvara > My Head

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19 hours ago, FredM said:

 

Did you try the OMD with the MU? 

 

 

No and the Muon Pro, whilst worthy of a test needs about 5,000 dollars of my currency to "test" and that is too expensive for me and I am happy with the two ERs in the chain externally synchronised.

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23 hours ago, FredM said:

 I guess could just try it with a network cable. 

Would definitely compare the fiber option with the UTP network options. Looking forward to your findings.

"You should create the circumstances in which happiness can be made possible" - Herman van Veen

 

For info about my setup, look at my profile

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9 hours ago, jcn3 said:

@turbofeet seems to have a good justification for wanting to bypass the internal cable.  as this pic shows, the internal cable is just a terminated cable plugged into rj45 jacks at both ends (the bottom left of the pic -- a bit blurry -- is the connection to the jack on the chassis).  the plan is minimally invasive and completely reversible.

 

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Thanks, that picture tells a lot. With the knowledge of what is difference a good network cable makes, it seems that there is indeed some room for improvement here. But would be better if Grimm would provide a service option to do that and not to lose the warranty by doing it yourself.

"You should create the circumstances in which happiness can be made possible" - Herman van Veen

 

For info about my setup, look at my profile

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Hope to see a review soon!?

19 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

New user but not an owner. 😉

 

Fleetwood Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Theoretica Applied Physics BACCH-SP ADIO < Grimm MU1

 

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