Best app to stream Tidal to JPLAY

[mnuno10]

My goal is to stream TIDAL to my NUC8i5BEH with JPLAY Fetmo + AO3 + Fidelizer + MinorityClean.

I was looking to the best way to control Tidal and stream music to JPLAY, so far I've tested:

- Audirvana in Macbook streaming to JPLAY - Best sound quality, but I don't want to use it as it required that my MAC is always on; 

- BubbleUpnp(Android) - Pretty good sound quality, slight worst than the above configuration but still great; The problem is when the phone is locked, the next song on the queue does not play; Also doesn't support MQA, but this isn't a big deal;

- Audirvana installed on the same machine of JPLAY - Worst than BubbleUpnp but better than mconnect; Audirvana Remote iOS app sometimes don't connect to Audirvana;

- mconnect(iOS) - The worst, as it is device dependent: iPhoneX > iPad Mini Retina > iPhone SE; The iPhoneX that I use to test isn't mine so I can benefit of the superior sound quality of it;

 

There are better ways to stream TIDAL to JPLAY? It is better to install BubbleUpnp on my NUC, activate OpenHome and control Tidal with Linn/Lumin app? Or I will get bad sound quality and problems connecting to it?

Related to my problem with BubbleUpnp Android's app, there are some setting that I'm missing? How do you have your BubbleUpnp app and Android phone configured?

 

I'm doing more tests and now I'm having the following problems, I don't detect them before installed AO3:

mconnect- Music stops after 2/3minutes;

Audirvana in Macbook streaming to JPLAY - Parts of music gets mixed and music stops after 2/3minutes;

What I'm doing wrong?

 

[FelipeRolim]

Hello. I did very extensive tests with every smartphone/iPhone software I found. I can't say that they were all conclusive, but I managed to make a good impression of them. So, here are some reports:

 

1 - MConnect is the worst software I've tried, with a good margin. I believe this is because, with MConnect, the mobile device becomes the signal path, so the wireless signal (which I try to avoid as much as possible) becomes fundamental, the quality of the device too, and in the end, we create a path that doesn't seem to be the best. It contradicts what we have as most perfect in audiophile terms, which is the wired connection.

 

2 - BubbleUPnP has always been the best on my system (although I never tried Audirvana). But, it also has particularities that I consider important for the extraction of the best quality. In my case, I have two individual subnets, one general for the house and the other for computers (Control-PC and Audio-PC). It's the general network that serves to control playback, and even though there is NO transfer of music data through it, BubbleUPnP still improves the quality by having the controlled computer and the cell phone set with fixed IP on the router. Furthermore, the quality of the router makes difference, the wireless network, and also the mobile device itself. I installed the same version of BubbleUPnP on a Samsung Galaxy Note 5 and a Galaxy Note 9. The playback commanded by Note 9 was clearly better. And, if all this wasn't enough, more recently (I would say the last five updates), BubbleUPnP has considerably improved its quality and stability.

 

So, it all depends on the circumstances and several other factors. I find it very difficult to identify the best one, as the circumstances of the experiment are decisive for the result. For a while I used and preferred the fidata Music App, but the BubbleUPnP updates did it the best again, on my system.

[mnuno10]

Thank you @FelipeRolim for your input.

Strange that a different Android phone as impact in sound quality. In mconnect I understand, because mconnect downloads the song and then sends it to the JPLAY(so a better cpu, wireless module, etc can impact sound quality), but in BubbleUpnp the song is downloaded by JPLAY. I will try to test it with different devices and see what happens.

I will try to implement your recommendations regarding Home Network Configuration.

And thank you for your posts here in Audiophilestyle, you are one of the persons that make me give Windows/JPLAY another shoot. After hearing JPLAY, even without any Windows' tweak, I found it's sound quality superior to every Linux Audio Distributions that I've tested(Euphony/Gentoo/Daphile/Volumio). With AO3 + Fidelizer + MinorityClean installed, it's even better.

 

Related to my problems:

When I installed AO3 I already have JPLAY installed, and on the AO3 setup in one of the steps it asks to delete JPLAY, I answered NO. I should have uninstalled JPLAY, and installed it again after AO3 setup? There is some order on Software(JPLAY + AO3 + Fidelizer + MinorityClean) installation that I should follow?

I see on a post someone talking about the "Thesycon driver". I should use "Thesycon driver" or stick with the manufacturer drivers for my Roksan K3 DAC?

[FelipeRolim]

Not every manufacturer develops its own driver or sufficiently improves a generic driver (such as Thesycon) to extract the most of hardware quality. So, it's very difficult to assess what can be better. The drivers from Hegel, Wyred4Sound and the old USB controllers from Schiit, for example, are not as improved as possible. But, even so, I always find them more reliable.

 

Regarding the order of installation, I'm not the greatest expert on this, but I believe that the JPLAY FEMTO needs to be installed first. Audiophile Optimizer doesn't ask if we want to uninstall JPLAY, but rather disable the network service related to it. If you don't have two computers (Control-PC and Audio-PC), the answer will always be no. However, installing JPLAY FEMTO before is important because the Audiophile Optimizer changes to adapt to it. From start to finish, my sequential order is: (i) install JPLAY FEMTO; (ii) install Audiophile Optimizer, but don't run it; (iii) install the DAC driver through Service Tools; (iv) run the Audiophile Optimizer.

 

An additional tip: using DHCP on the computer and on the router is always very comfortable and always works. More than that, remote access by mstsc.exe helps a lot and solves the vast majority of situations, eliminating a monitor, a mouse and a keyboard (which are very bad for the audio quality). But, in Audiophile Optimizer, disabling all network services brings a substantial improvement. It happens that, so that this doesn't harm the JPLAY FEMTO, it's necessary that the network controller is always configured with fixed IP. BubbleUPnP will continue to work. This, for me, is the best possible scenario for extracting the best quality: fixed IP, without network services, without remote access, without HDMI / VGA connections, and without the USB connection being shared with any other device (mouse and keyboard). Then, the computer will only have three connections: power cable, USB cable from the DAC and network cable for the remote control.

 

I'm very grateful for your words, and for knowing that you have helped and inspired in some way to experience more. I really believe that, today, we haven't yet discovered anything that is more capable than Windows, be it together with JPLAY FEMTO, be it together with Audirvana, HQPlayer or other high level software. I've never seen a Linux perform the same way, even though I tested it all. But, for that, it is necessary to know how to make it work at its maximum. This is also why I consider some reviews to be flawed, unreliable or with little depth of experimentation, such as the one published about the JCAT Net Card FEMTO. Although I consider this card to be highly reliable and intend to buy two in the future, to get the most out of it we need a different level of intimacy with the settings, mainly using Windows Server 2019 in Core Mode.

[mnuno10]

Thank you @FelipeRolim

You are right, I misunderstand the question that AO makes regarding JPLAY. 

My router does not allow me to configure static IP for my devices, so I have done it each one. I will plan to buy a router in the future, but I have to do it with caution, because not everyone can replace the one from my network provider.

I've installed WS 2019 non core(in the future I plan to install core edition, but right now to simplify I prefer install "graphical" edition) and follow your advices, I'm really happy with the results.

But I still have one problem: 

- Listening to Tidal using BubbleUpnp app to control it, the songs in the queue keeps skipping after 1/2 minutes of play time; Using BubbleUpnp or Fidata(iOS) to play songs from my WD MyCloud DLNA server, all works well; What can cause the problem of BubbleUPNP streaming Tidal? I use an Huawei P10 and I already disable all "Power Saving" options that I found.

My JPLAY's settings are the same as in my first post, exception to Hibernate Mode that now is ON.

 

Is there any advantage in using JPlayFetmoServer to stream files from my WD MyCloud over using WD MyCloud DLNA server directly?

If so, how can I configure JPlayFetmoServer to use files stored in my WD MyCloud. I may have to map it to work as a normal hard drive in Windows, is that true?

If I don't plan to use JPlayFetmoServer at all, is there a way to disable it? In that case should I configure my PC as an AudioPC(in AO, Fidelizer and JPLAY) or I have to still configure it as Single PC?

 

[FelipeRolim]

My exhaustive tests with dozens of storage devices were performed, mostly, at the time of JPLAY v. 6.2, where I used it in conjunction with MinimServer. At that time, I experimented with numerous filters with AVconv and FFmpeg and a lot of other things. Local storage (SSD, not HD) has always been superior (and I still think SSD and SATA cable are better than M.2 NVMe), with the computer itself managing the library and playback. More than that, I've always preferred the exclusivity of assignments, and for this reason I consider the result of the SATA connection superior only for transferring music data and, in the case of a single-PC, the network connection exclusively for remote control. The concentration of all activities inside the computer is superior, and even with two computers or a computer and a NAS, the arrangements for the pair to play better than one alone need to be rigorous. There's no use for a good computer and a bad computer, or a good computer and a bad NAS. Some NAS have the ability to manage a DLNA network or create a UPnP server. Others even allow the installation of MinimServer. It works, but not as well as using an SSD via SATA connection, with dedicated power supplies and cables (it could be a JCAT SATA Cable), and JPLAY FEMTO managing everything.

 

In the case of femtoServer, the result is even superior to MinimServer, so I'd never consider deactivating it. If that were not enough, the femtoServer is a fundamental part to enable low latencies and a high DAC Link, which brings a result that is usually (not always) superior. It's the double combination of femtoServer and JPLAY FEMTO that makes it the fantastic tool it is, the best I've tried. So, I would use the single-PC as it actually is (and not as Audio-PC, disabling the femtoServer) and try to allocate the music files on an internal SSD, via SATA connection. If this were not possible, it would create a virtual disk to locate the NAS, but I would keep the activity of organizing the library and reproduction concentrated in the JPLAY FEMTO (in this case, the JCAT Net Card FEMTO can be just as important as the JCAT USB Card FEMTO, and you could also consider creating an independent DHCP server to connect the NAS directly to the computer - without router, instead of making a bridge connection - it is a adjustment that I consider best, with two subnets and JPLAY FEMTO between them).

 

Regarding TIDAL, I tested it a little over a year ago, for only 30 days, and found the quality to be much lower. I don't have much experience, but I would probably see: (i) network problems (latency, packet loss, lack of response in time, etc.); (ii) problems with the cell phone or tablet controller (energy saving mode mainly, which MUST be disabled), and; (iii) lastly, there would be a problem with the computer. It doesn't seem to be the case, as the problem appears to be only via streaming.

 

PS .: Marcin, the tool for creating a network with an independent DHCP is very small and only adds a background process. The one I used, if I'm not mistaken, had less than 1MB. Perhaps, for the next editions of JPLAY, it will be possible to implement something like this, to make it possible to connect a NAS directly to one of the ports of the JCAT Net Card FEMTO without the need for a bridge connection (in which case the router would continue to manage the IP and the data flow). Although this isn't necessary for the integration of two PCs with fixed IPs, I believe that for the direct integration of a PC and a NAS it's necessary. I don't know if any NAS behaves like the computer, where the fixed IP allows direct connection.

[mnuno10]

I manage to make my NUC connect to the WDMyCloud. To do so, I've to enable network related services in AO3. In the JPLAY manual they state that you can use disable network related services option in AO3 if you are using Static IP, but I couldn't manage to make it work. But I will try again.

I've compared WDMyCloud DLNA server vs JPLAY Femto Server, and Femto Server is indeed superior. One thing that I really don't like in it, is that you have to navigate in a "folder" way, instead of the various ways(Albums, Artists, etc) that WDMyCloud provide.

Local playback is also clearly superior to Tidal, but my local library is pretty small, so I really need Tidal. 

 

Related to Tidal there is a reported bug in JPLAY forum in which Tidal + BubbleUpnp don't work well in Hibernate mode.

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/3330-tidal-via-android-bubble-up-issue/

I've disable Hibernate mode but I still have problems, after playing 3 or 4 songs, in the middle of the current it skips to the next.

 

I will try to get some help in JPLAY forum.

 

Thank you again @FelipeRolim