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Chris's Objective/Subjective moat seems one-sided

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3 hours ago, Albrecht said:

 

Thanks for your comment jabbr. I almost always appreciate your posts, and reasoning ability: not to mention your experimentation, and also sharing it on these forums.

 

Setting aside the humor/sarcasm here; I can seriously ask, what is wrong with that? Personally, - no way can i afford a Meitner, DCS, APL, CHord or Berkeley top tier DAC. But I DO have a mid level- in the line APL DAC universal player that i feel punches WAY above its purchase price. I sure am glad that those companies are still in business producing quality, high performance, equipment that I'll never be able to afford but i can still hear and appreciate them/it for what they are.

 

Whether or not some people here are afraid to examine the evidence, and even do a modicum of research into why shit costs what it costs, - (and in turn has value), - is their problem not mine.

 

The audio world (and people enjoying their recordings as much as they do) would be pretty bloody bleak if every piece of audio gear had the word SONY stamped on it. 

 

The audio world was far better place when AR and Advent had a very large percentage of the market.

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17 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

The audio world was far better place when AR and Advent had a very large percentage of the market.

Why?


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10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Have you put any energy into calling them out or participating in a forum where you could save people from this? Or, are you more focused on saving audiophiles from themselves / spending their own money having fun?

 

Well I did participate in one thread where people were freaking out about all the instant hand sanitizer being snapped up:

 

Pointed out that all you need is rubbing alcohol 70% and some glycerine and aloe vera gel and pointing that the shelves were full of all three. 

 

I find the the inability for people to logically put together a thought process knows almost no boundaries.

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48 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Why?

 

AR made high performance audio mainstream. Easy setup to optimize meant happy customers. 

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35 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

AR made high performance audio mainstream. Easy setup to optimize meant happy customers. 

I did own an AR turntable and AR amplifier back in 1974, so call me a fan. But today we have more products that are easy to set up and sound great than ever before, as well as very expensive high end components for those who want more.


System (i): (iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Ortofon 2M Black/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > Glow Amp One > Klipsch RP-600M

System (ii): iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > (Tandy LX5; JBL LSR305 ; Audeze LCD-3)

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23 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

I did own an AR turntable and AR amplifier back in 1974, so call me a fan. But today we have more products that are easy to set up and sound great than ever before, as well as very expensive high end components for those who want more.

 

But not as wide a market as back then. More is not necessarily better, more sometimes is just confusing. 

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7 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

But not as wide a market as back then. More is not necessarily better, more sometimes is just confusing. 

Yes, I wouldn’t disagree with that. If you don’t go to a dealer whose job it is to narrow down those choices in the light of their experience, then it is very hard for a beginner to make sense of the over whelming storm of internet opinions that are all over the place.


System (i): (iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Ortofon 2M Black/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > Glow Amp One > Klipsch RP-600M

System (ii): iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > (Tandy LX5; JBL LSR305 ; Audeze LCD-3)

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1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

AR made high performance audio mainstream. Easy setup to optimize meant happy customers. 

 

Wow, nostalgia can really make people forget! 9_9

I once owned an AR turntable, and it was the worst piece of junk ever.  Horrible (sticking) tonearm pivot (truly a brain-dead bearing design both horizontal and vertical), weak motor that cogged terribly and was prone to fail, and zero isolation so footfalls and feedback were common.
 

As for their speakers: They were inefficient and their high frequency response only extended a few kHz beyond the blanket-covered Advents...

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1 minute ago, Richard Dale said:

Yes, I wouldn’t disagree with that. If you don’t go to a dealer whose job it is to narrow down those choices in the light of their experience, then it is very hard for a beginner to make sense of the over whelming storm of internet opinions that are all over the place.

 

And back then dealers advertised even on TV 

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4 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Wow, nostalgia can really make people forget! 9_9

I once owned an AR turntable, and it was the worst piece of junk ever.  Horrible (sticking) tonearm pivot (truly a brain-dead bearing design both horizontal and vertical), weak motor that cogged terribly and was prone to fail, and zero isolation so footfalls and feedback were common.
 

As for their speakers: They were inefficient and their high frequency response only extended a few kHz beyond the blanket-covered Advents...

I owned an AR turntable too, and I think it is a classic. My arm didn’t stick, and worked just great with something like a Stanton 500E. The motor on my deck didn’t cog, and the spring suspension worked just fine to isolate the deck. The AR design has influenced many designs, such as the Thorens 150 or Linn Sondek that came after it.


System (i): (iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Ortofon 2M Black/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > Glow Amp One > Klipsch RP-600M

System (ii): iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > (Tandy LX5; JBL LSR305 ; Audeze LCD-3)

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7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Wow, nostalgia can really make people forget! 9_9

I once owned an AR turntable, and it was the worst piece of junk ever.  Horrible (sticking) tonearm pivot (truly a brain-dead bearing design both horizontal and vertical), weak motor that cogged terribly and was prone to fail, and zero isolation so footfalls and feedback were common.
 

As for their speakers: They were inefficient and their high frequency response only extended a few kHz beyond the blanket-covered Advents...

 

I knew I could lure you out with the right bait. My Ar-4xs go past 30k and the pair Hi-Fi News reviewed them in February 2015 and measured the same thing so you are wrong. One of many things you are wrong about. Am I nostalgic about them? They have been in my office for over thirty years. I've written about them search it.

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Wow, nostalgia can really make people forget! 9_9

I once owned an AR turntable, and it was the worst piece of junk ever.  Horrible (sticking) tonearm pivot (truly a brain-dead bearing design both horizontal and vertical), weak motor that cogged terribly and was prone to fail, and zero isolation so footfalls and feedback were common.
 

As for their speakers: They were inefficient and their high frequency response only extended a few kHz beyond the blanket-covered Advents...

From your description I can only assume you had the first AR model built which had two motors, that was a dog.  I've rebuilt 2 60's AR TT's and an 80's "The AR"... yeah.

the arms cheap  regardless of which model but put a mid range Grado cartridge in it and it will outperform turntables under $1k for low bass fundamentals and dynamics.

The footfall issue is easily fixed with a wall mounted shelf.

 

 


Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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13 hours ago, davide256 said:

From your description I can only assume you had the first AR model built which had two motors, that was a dog.  I've rebuilt 2 60's AR TT's and an 80's "The AR"... yeah.

the arms cheap  regardless of which model but put a mid range Grado cartridge in it and it will outperform turntables under $1k for low bass fundamentals and dynamics.

The footfall issue is easily fixed with a wall mounted shelf.

 

 

Spot on! I just so happen to have an old "The AR" turntable if anyone is interested in it. It was purchased new by my father in the 80's.


Forrest:

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How about if we get this thread back on topic and move the nostalgic comments to their own thread? Thanks. 

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On 3/24/2020 at 9:16 PM, jabbr said:

If the site were ideally a bar and we were all sitting down for a drink, then I would enjoy having engineers, artists, scientists, composers, writers and others all free to give their own opinion. The weight of the opinion could be valued by what ideas are expressed, rather than the title of the person expressing it.

 

The hardcore objectivists would be the ones drinking water and telling us all that is wrong with beer in passive aggressive tones. ;)

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On 3/26/2020 at 9:03 AM, daverich4 said:

How about if we get this thread back on topic and move the nostalgic comments to their own thread? Thanks. 

For the most part IMO the "moat" has been more of a deterrent to bad behavior.

 

Objectivists and subjectivists tribes continue to mingle on both sides of "the moat". The only difference is that 'the drawbridge' can be raised by either side if they don't desire to mingle.Ironically the audio tribes have been showing less tribalism.

 

I would say it's working well.

 

YMMV

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2 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

For the most part IMO the "moat" has been more of a deterrent to bad behavior.

 

Objectivists and subjectivists tribes continue to mingle on both sides of "the moat". The only difference is that 'the drawbridge' can be raised by either side if they don't desire to mingle.Ironically the audio tribes have been showing less tribalism.

 

I would say it's working well.

 

YMMV

 

It certainly appears to be working well , as there have been no posts there for 2 1/2 days:)


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

It certainly appears to be working well , as there have been no posts there for 2 1/2 days:)


And that’s your idea of it working well? I wonder if Chris agrees with you.

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8 hours ago, daverich4 said:


And that’s your idea of it working well? I wonder if Chris agrees with you.

 

My remark ,although meant to be  tongue in cheek,was posted to stimulate a little thought about the reasons for it's original existence, and the need for it now, when the forum, (with a few exceptions) has become far more tolerant of the viewpoints of others.

 We shouldn't have needed it in the first place , especially when those that demanded it most have shown that they didn't really want it by migrating to A.S.R. and attempting to recruit members for that forum !

 I think that you will find that even members such as Tom (Kumakuma) are likely to agree with me here too about the need for this sub forum.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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20 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

My remark ,although meant to be  tongue in cheek,was posted to stimulate a little thought about the reasons for it's original existence, and the need for it now, when the forum, (with a few exceptions) has become far more tolerant of the viewpoints of others.

 We shouldn't have needed it in the first place , especially when those that demanded it most have shown that they didn't really want it by migrating to A.S.R. and attempting to recruit members for that forum !

 I think that you will find that even members such as Tom (Kumakuma) are likely to agree with me here too about the need for this sub forum.


You seem to have a little bit of a selective memory considering the number of time Chris has had to reprimand you for your posts. 

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20 hours ago, sandyk said:

 We shouldn't have needed it in the first place , especially when those that demanded it most have shown that they didn't really want it by migrating to A.S.R. and attempting to recruit members for that forum !

 I think that you will find that even members such as Tom (Kumakuma) are likely to agree with me here too about the need for this sub forum.

 

Alex, you have your facts wrong.

 

1. No one on the objectivist side of the divide "demanded" the creation of this sub-forum.  This was something that Chris dreamed up on his own.

 

2. There was no A.S.R. recruitment campaign. The thread you thinking of was a joke targeted at our glorious leader.

 

3. I do not agree with you about the need for this sub-forum and I made this very clear as soon as Chris he made this change:

 

I also correctly predicted that it would result in many members with a strong technical background either leaving back this site or scaling back their participation.

 

 

 


Girl, you want it, you take it, you pay the price

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