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NAS POLL - How much NAS do you need in times of streaming???


!!! THIS IS A NAS POLL !!!! Thanx in advance for your participation ! It's public - Pls pm me, if that's a problem!  

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Hi guys,
I was looking on the NAS topic for the last weeks and I was wondering in which direction we (the audiophile community) will turn. our interest in storage.
Reflecting my personal behaviour, I have noticed that I use streaming for the ease of use, but quite often for the possiblity to pursue a higher level of selection when it comes to buying a whole album or specific titles.
Thus, the growth level for disk capacity has really slowed down for me, moreover the VOD streaming offers have substituted a big share of our family videotheque, which had been a major contributor to capacity growth. In music terms, DSD and Hi Res definitely have had a good impact on disk deployement, though the supply of interesting new music in these formats does not really correlate to Moore's law for capacity anymore.
For a future project I like to get a picture where the focus of interest for the AS members will be located.
Thanx in advance for participating. Comments are welcome!
Tom aka DuckToller

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I have approximately 1100 albums stored on my Synology NAS and they occupy less than half the capacity of my 2TB RAID drives. At the rate that I add new music, I can't see running out of capacity any time in the foreseeable future, if ever. I currently do not subscribe to a streaming service.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Mille merci,

@Kal Rubinson and @Allan F


for giving some insight about the different directions we may  find in our music loving hobby.

I could imagine, that perhaps the format (i e. DSD or DXD) or possibly the accumulation of collector items are drivers for growth?

For instance, in a rationalized case, if you would listen to the 1100 album of Allan (which I would guess are mostly PCM) with a rate of 6h listening time per day, you could listen to them approximately just twice during the coming year, however you would need only 2 TB extra storage.
Best, Tom

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My needs are driven by choosing to acquire recordings in multichannel and in DSD or DXD, if possible, and those demand much more space than 16/44.1 releases.  For example, the latter are typically less than 1Gb while the DSD64 mch are in the 2-3Gb range but some, in some higher resolutions, need more space.  The biggest album/work I have is a Mahler 3 in DSD256 in 6channels that is nearly 40Gb!!

 

It is a good thing that storage space is relatively cheap.

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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Short calculation: 
Under the assumption of 100 minutes music for the 3rd, 1 minute of Mahler 3 in DSD256/6channel equals the same performance in PCM FLAC  as complete disk in 16/44, in turn that's approx. 100 times the volume of CD quality. Sounds like a real trigger to me 😉 
And I can understand clearly why streaming may have some limitations with this use case !!
Out of curiosity, on a side note:
Are you playing them native with 3x DSD26 capable DACs??
Are there special demands for the data transmission if you play these files via network?
Is there a risk of data congestion, and where specifically?
I'd guess playing over WiFi won't cut it
Best, Tom

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1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

Mille merci,

@Kal Rubinson and @Allan F


for giving some insight about the different directions we may  find in our music loving hobby.

I could imagine, that perhaps the format (i e. DSD or DXD) or possibly the accumulation of collector items are drivers for growth?

For instance, in a rationalized case, if you would listen to the 1100 album of Allan (which I would guess are mostly PCM) with a rate of 6h listening time per day, you could listen to them approximately just twice during the coming year, however you would need only 2 TB extra storage.
Best, Tom

 

Yes, the vast majority of my albums are Redbook PCM. I also currently have 85 DSD and 164 Hi Res PCM albums, but no DXD. At present, all playback is upsampled to DSD512 via HQPlayer.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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I have 2TB NAS capacity, about 700gb is (mostly) 2 channel PCM music. I plan to upgrade storage to 4TB within 90 days largely because of video storage and

more DSD downloading in the future. Excellent poll, a good followup poll might be to stratify "how much NAS storage do you have for your primary music source",

 wouldn't surprise me if some have NAS's backing up their primary NAS

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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58 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Short calculation: 
Under the assumption of 100 minutes music for the 3rd, 1 minute of Mahler 3 in DSD256/6channel equals the same performance in PCM FLAC  as complete disk in 16/44, in turn that's approx. 100 times the volume of CD quality. Sounds like a real trigger to me 😉 

It is what it is but that is the biggest one.

59 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

And I can understand clearly why streaming may have some limitations with this use case !!

If you mean Internet streaming services, sure, but plain vanilla 5.1 24/96 is quite doable.  I rely on downloads mostly and have no issues over my LAN.

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

Are you playing them native with 3x DSD26 capable DACs??

Nope.  Using 8-channel DACs.

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

Are there special demands for the data transmission if you play these files via network?  Is there a risk of data congestion, and where specifically?

My network backbone is 10G but I have not upgraded all the components on it.  Consequently, I am working with a 1G network and it has not been a limitation.

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

I'd guess playing over WiFi won't cut it

I have not tried WiFi in a long time.

39 minutes ago, Allan F said:

At present, all playback is upsampled to DSD512 via HQPlayer.

But that has no impact on storage.

14 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Excellent poll, a good followup poll might be to stratify "how much NAS storage do you have for your primary music source",

 wouldn't surprise me if some have NAS's backing up their primary NAS

Good point.  By next week, my two big NAS drives will be in my two homes.  Each will serve its own local players via LAN.  Each will also be a back-up for the other.  (I keep a 3rd local back-up off-line.)

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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18 hours ago, DuckToller said:


 

Hi guys,
I was looking on the NAS topic for the last weeks and I was wondering in which direction we (the audiophile community) will turn. our interest in storage.
Reflecting my personal behaviour, I have noticed that I use streaming for the ease of use, but quite often for the possiblity to pursue a higher level of selection when it comes to buying a whole album or specific titles.
Thus, the growth level for disk capacity has really slowed down for me, moreover the VOD streaming offers have substituted a big share of our family videotheque, which had been a major contributor to capacity growth. In music terms, DSD and Hi Res definitely have had a good impact on disk deployement, though the supply of interesting new music in these formats does not really correlate to Moore's law for capacity anymore.
For a future project I like to get a picture where the focus of interest for the AS members will be located.
Thanx in advance for participating. Comments are welcome!
Tom aka DuckToller

Qobuz has been a  boon for me, about 50% of my listening now is Qobuz for new music/non serious listening. Which in turn tends to stimulate download purchases when

I like something and want better from it...local storage does trump Qobuz for resolution. I hear you on video, but am still building up my collection of "great movies"... lots

out there that aren't necessarily available/contemporary for streaming.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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I have a Synology 12 Bay NAS Drive which, over the years has seen an upgrade in storage from 36TB to 48TB to currently 96TB, which probably is it.  Currently I have about 60TB of files, mostly (40 TB) of rips I did of about 11K vinyl and tape albums at 192/24 (you can see the equipment I used in my signature).  I have a pretty large number of hirez mch files (ripped from SACDs or purchased from sources like NativeDSD) and stereo hirez files (up to DSD256 and DXD352 purchased from sources like HDTT).  A typical vinyl album ripped at 192/24 takes around 3-4GB.  Took me about 6 years - 12,000 hours to rip the albums.

 

Larry

Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,SoundsmithZephyrII+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+Doshi3.0+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp  Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Pacific, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105  Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR

Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-15KRecs(90%classical),1.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50TBripped files

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57 minutes ago, davide256 said:

 wouldn't surprise me if some have NAS's backing up their primary NAS

 

My NAS is used solely for storage of my music library. I regularly update two separate backups on portable 2TB USB drives. My largest album is a classical recording of Chopin in DSDx2, which occupies just over 4GB.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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I have three sets of backups.  One I consider a partial backup within the Synology RAID system, with up to 2 of the 12 drives can fail simultaneously and everything gets rebuilt.  The other two back ups are sets of eight 8TB external hard drives, one at home and the other in two large safe deposit boxes in my bank. 

 

Larry

Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,SoundsmithZephyrII+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+Doshi3.0+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp  Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Pacific, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105  Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR

Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-15KRecs(90%classical),1.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50TBripped files

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5 minutes ago, astrotoy said:

The other two back ups are sets of eight 8TB external hard drives, one at home and the other in two large safe deposit boxes in my bank.

Because Raid6 is no back-up !!! 😉
I admire the execution of useful rules as you did. Just perfect!
Cheers, Tom
 

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34 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Because Raid6 is no back-up !!! 😉
I admire the execution of useful rules as you did. Just perfect!
Cheers, Tom

 

Of course your are correct about RAID not being backup. It is a very commonly held misconception that RAID provides backup. RAID provides redundancy, the ability to continue operating should a duplicate drive fail. Many people do not realize, for example, that if you were to accidentally delete files, they would be deleted on all duplicate drives. Moreover, while unlikely, a catastrophic failure of a NAS could potentially destroy the content of all drives in the array. External backup of a NAS is essential for proper security. Not to mention peace of mind. 🙂

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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I have a 4-bay Synology NAS (918+) with all my files on it, about 1.5tb of music. I am a Roon user, and my core is on an intel NUC. Roon backs-up daily to the NAS. The Synology runs in a raid whilst it also duplicated to my office PC and vice versa, this is also uploaded to Onedrive.

 

I take a cold back-up from the NAS everyweek and store elsewhere in the house, I suppose I should really store offsite. This backup includes all the music, files and photo's.

 

I do stream from Qobuz quite a bit but I still use my local files just as much.

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I am not sure to be honest @DuckToller. I am still ripping CDs to FLAC, I have about 3500 done and about 2000 to go. No rush really. I listen every day (+Qobuz), TAG, create playlists, like etc and I would not want to lose too much progress if I did need to use a backup. I have one NUC die on me, and I did lose a week. So, it backs every morning 6am, both the NUC and NAS are always on (powered by a HDPLEX psu), so no hassle really.

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Under 5. The need for capacity is slowing ...  I checked "Other reasons/answers are welcome"

 

I don't need capacity as under my apartment complex's lease agreement I am no longer allowed to stream or download using their free wi-fi internet. Which is OK with as I prefer playing SACDs.

 

The DSD and 24-bit PCM music files I downloaded (and kept) before this change come out to 65 GB total and I have 403 GB available on my hard drive. I didn't know what a NAS was and looked it up and it appears to be different than the backup drive I use. Some of these computer terms are hard for me to understand.

 

95% of my music is on physical SACDs, I have thought about adding them to my computer. However, from the threads I've read here on creating DSD music files from SACDs it looks like too much work. So I just play my SACDs.

 

I do have a question about NAS that my google search didn't answer, is it a drive that can be activated by multiple devices that play computer music files?

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

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