DIY Project High Performance Audio PC with high quality wiring

[elan120]

9 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Not from my experience.

The 2666MHz Apacer RAM running at 2666MHz sounds better than the 2400MHz Apacer running at 2400MHz or any slower speed. 

Also, the 2400MHz Apacer RAM sounded better than my 3200MHz G.Skill. The most important property for RAM to sound good is its quality. It's not the only factor but the most important one. 

It also matters how you tweak your server. If you are using a low-powered CPU, slowing down the RAM helps. I am not talking about those types of servers. Gave up on them a while ago but I do remember that slowing down the RAM helped there. My comment was about @StreamFidelity build, which is not aimed at low powered CPUs. With those servers, typically (given equal quality) the higher the speed, the better it sounds. And by better, I don't mean "technical sound". 

Same experience here.  Went through the RAMs mentioned with my recent build using i9900KS and as @Nenon stated the 2666MHz Apacer RAM clearly sound better.

[elan120]

Looks like a month later, Marcin has a new preference that is 2666MHz.

 

 

[elan120]

4 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

This is the preliminary power plan

FWIW...be very careful setting up the "Optional" power plan.  When doing the parallel power supply configuration, especially with a dynamic load like PC, it could be quite involved to get the setup correct.  Even with carefully aligned output voltage from each supply, it would be important to have a feedback network specifically designed to accommodate load sharing error signals.  It is likely more beneficial to have a single, appropriately selected power supply.

 

I did a quick bench check on HDPlex 800 DC-ATX unit, when both Group1 and Group2 are connected, Group1 EPS output 12.23V and Group2 EPS output 12.33V, this is a bit over 0.8% of output regulation, which is too close to the typical suggested boundary of maximum +/-1% with static load for me to use it as a way to do load sharing, since most of the current will be drawn from Group2 instead of sharing from both supplies.  When using two different power sources without carefully adjusted output voltage from each supply and no feedback network, the result likely be better to go with just a single top quality supply.

 

Just my $0.02...Btw, looking forward to more of your progress posts.

 

[elan120]

15 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

The advantage of Keces P8 is the extensive protection

It might be a good idea to check with Keces on this.  One thing to keep in mind is pending on the combinations of power supply output resistance, output voltage from each supply, output current can actually go negative, which is an indication of current flowing directly into output of one of the power suppliers.  Some power supply topologies would be tolerant of such a condition, but many (most?) would not.  The two modes of protections provided by P8 likely don't cover this condition, so to be on the safe side, better check with them whether their power supply has protection to support load sharing.

 

Normally, I try to keep power supply operating at no more than of 75% of its rated output to ensure there is enough headroom, more headroom certainly is better, so hopefully your project will work fine with just a single supply.

 

[elan120]

14 minutes ago, Linmon said:

Do you have a Apacer Product part number

Here is the Apacer part number:  D31.23185S.001

[elan120]

1 minute ago, lwr said:

Could you please provide the part number for the equivalent in an 8GB capacity?

Sure, I will get that information later when I get home, as I don't have it with me at work.

[elan120]

5 hours ago, lwr said:

Could you please provide the part number for the equivalent in an 8GB capacity?

The 8GB Apacer WT ECC DDR4 UDIMM part number is D31.23245S.001

[elan120]

1 minute ago, Energy said:

 

I see nowhere that sells this RAM. Do we have to contact Apacer directly in order to purchase it?

That certainly is an option, or purchase from Mouser for 4GB module when they are back in stock to use it in either 2x or 4x configuration.

[elan120]

7 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

The HDPLEX package included quite valuable copper bars and blocks for passive cooling.

 

 

5 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

@StreamFidelity  Very nice!  Consider this:  the heat pipes are too short to extend the full length of the copper block so you are losing - it looks like - 15-20% of the heat transfer area.  Do you have enough thermal paste left over to fill those?  At least it is better for heat transfer than air.

I was thinking about the same thing, looks like a real concern.  Here is a screenshot from HDPlex website where the heat pipes are extended past the heat distribution block.

 

[elan120]

13 minutes ago, WilliamWykeham said:

1) I'll use the wiring diagram on page 2, but with only 1 Keces P8, where/what do I connect the 4-pin, EAT12V_2 input to?

With one P8, you will connect just the 8 pin EPS and leave the 4 pin EPS not connected.  If you can make your own EPS cables or have one build, you can have the 4 pin EPS wired in parallel to 4 of the 8 pin EPS connector.

[elan120]

56 minutes ago, WilliamWykeham said:

What’s the advantage of the two wires in parallel vs. just the 8 pin EPS?

It will help lower the total resistance, which in the end, will contribute to a bit of SQ improvement, but certainly not a show stopper.

 

One thing to keep in mind that there are other parts in the build can have much greater effect then having these EPS wires in parallel, such as power supplies, RAMs...etc., once you have the server done, there is a good chance you will continue to experiment, change certain components, set things up differently, which is a good reason to go through the build yourself, but certainly keep an open mind on possible more changes after the build.

[elan120]

15 minutes ago, dminches said:

I didn’t think that the Keces P8 was underpowered at either 19V or 12V.

The peak demand during boot up sequence for either i9-9900K or KS is much higher than average consumption, based on observation for KS, it can go up to around 120W or slightly higher, so for P8 at 19/20V-8A, it works, but the 12V-8A model likely be insufficient.  Unfortunately, the option for a 12V linear power supply that is rated higher than 8A is quite limited, and a 12V power supply that works with i9-9900K or KS will likely need to handle peak current demand at 12A or higher, which is challenging to source one.

[elan120]

4 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Sean does a custom DC3 10a! I have one on order for my new i9 build.

Looking forward to your experience on this power supply.  Is your i9 K or KS?

[elan120]

6 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Just K! Will just set to 3.6ghz base clock. Will be running Stylus, no HQPlayer. Knowing Sean his builds are slightly over spec’d. So micro bursts will probably handle 11-12amp. Not that I fully understand this, just for discussions. 

If my speculation is correct, this power supply should be able to handle burst peak current to 14A range, which will handle your application very comfortably.  I am hoping the same will work for my KS, and I should find out hopefully in the next couple weeks.

[elan120]

10 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Based on this logic, dual Keces P8 19v feeding HDPlex 800W DC-ATX adapter seems like it would provide more headroom. CPU EPS coming from output of the DC-ATX. Does that additional headroom make it to the CPU if going through the converter while using only a single EPS input at the motherboard?

 

 

Yes, it would, but will need to check both HDPlex 800W DC-ATX outputs carefully due to this concern.  OTOH, single P8 at 20V feeding HDPlex 800W DC-ATX powering i9-9900KS EPS work without issue.  It is my interim solution until I finish building my 12V power supply to power the EPS directly.

[elan120]

1 hour ago, Exocer said:

Do you still feel the need to power PCI-E expansion cards (JCAT Femto NET/USB) with dedicated LPSU if the PC is already powered by an lpsu at the Keces/HDPlex level or better?

I feel the same as Nenon, and this is pretty much an universal consensus that both of these cards scales well with the quality of power supply.  Bypassing Mobo power with direct linear power supplies likely work for all add-on cards or devices, since even the best power supply to ATX connection will still require succeeding power distribution from Mobo, and JCAT Femto cards are no different.

[elan120]

57 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

19V /1.7A and 12V/4.2A. The second is high, but no problem.

That is a good data point, thank you.

 

Just curious, what is the current consumption when running EC modulator from 44.1K to DSD256 and how hot is the power supply?

[elan120]

31 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

It depends on the filter. With poli-sync-ext2 approximately 12V / 2.5A - 3.5A are used (CPU 17%). I also use the Convolution (384kHz / 64bit). With my current favorite filter poly-sinc-short-lp, around 12V / 2.6A - 5.1A are used (CPU 28%). The Keces with 12V gets quite hot in both cases, but stays always below 80 °C, otherwise over temperature protection would trigger. The other Keces P8 stays in any cases between 19V / 1.5A - 1.9A and only gets lukewarm. The sound with the computationally intensive filter is just fantastic.

I am running mostly with poly-sinc-xlr-lp -2s filter, when upsampling from 44.1K to DSD256x48 with EC7, current consumption in my case with 20V to HDPlex 800 DC-ATX to EPS is maxed out around 4.2A and the case is fairly hot as well, in fact, to the point I added an external heat sink to help with heat dissipation.  Your ATX power consumption is a bit higher than mine, but they are in similar range.

 

I plan to do some testing in couple weeks to see how SQ difference would be connecting a 12V LPS directly to EPS like your setup.  Hopefully it will be for the better.

[elan120]

5 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Are you willing to say who they are? So the DIY community can have access as well?

Not sure in Europe, but in US, I have had good experience with Tap Plastics, and they do good flame polish work as an option.

[elan120]

On 12/17/2021 at 11:25 PM, Patatorz said:

Any more information around a release date, price and specifications ?

It is released now with MSRP of $550 without other options like sCLK-EX.