Jump to content
IGNORED

My response to "Boycott the sub-forum"


Recommended Posts

49 minutes ago, jabbr said:


This is the issue: measurements are only useful if they predict sound quality.

 

They generally do for many devices including contentious stuff like cables! And many measurements already go far beyond the limits of human hearing.

 

This is the issue: some people don't want to or cannot believe this 😉.

 

Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile.

Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism.

:nomqa: R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press.

 

 

Link to comment
37 minutes ago, Archimago said:

 

They generally do for many devices including contentious stuff like cables! And many measurements already go far beyond the limits of human hearing.

 

This is the issue: some people don't want to or cannot believe this 😉.

The majority of solid state amps, for example, measure the same within the limits of human hearing. Correct or not? 

Link to comment
29 minutes ago, Archimago said:

 

They generally do for many devices including contentious stuff like cables! And many measurements already go far beyond the limits of human hearing.

 

This is the issue: some people don't want to or cannot believe this 😉.

 

In much of the discussion at ASR, appropriate pricing of equipment is an implicit theme.  Why should we tolerate high priced equipment that measures no better than inexpensive equipment?  And even why pay significantly more for a piece of equipment that does measure better but those measurements "go far beyond the limits of human hearing"?  I admit that I like aesthetically pleasing components, thick aluminum cases, fancy knobs and meters, etc. and am willing to pay a premium for that when I can afford it -- but how much should that add to the cost of electronics that measure "well enough"?

mQa is dead!

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Is that really the issue? They may want to believe this, but they know that measurements do not necessarily predict sound quality. Listening remains the final arbiter. 🙂

 

I keep hearing that measurements do not necessarily predict sound quality and I have to take that at face value.  But it would help me immensely if you can provide some examples from currently produced equipment. Thanks.

mQa is dead!

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Archimago said:

 

They generally do for many devices including contentious stuff like cables! And many measurements already go far beyond the limits of human hearing.

 

This is the issue: some people don't want to or cannot believe this 😉.

 

People don't believe this, because of personal experience ... like myself, 😉. Between the system that I first assembled over 3 decades ago, which delivered very decent sound from digital source, but nothing particularly noteworthy; and the tweaked one many, many months later, which ultimately bowled me over with its presentation, there was nothing technically altered - by 'objectivists' standards. The most radical variation was that the internal wiring of the speaker, which was the typical flimsy cabling found in low end units, was replaced with some decent solid core stuff, at very moderate cost.

 

What measurements would have picked what was going on? I still have very little idea of what to look for ...

Link to comment
43 minutes ago, SJK said:

I suspect that what people are willing to post online is not something they would ever say to someone in real life.  Isn't there a term for this, "The bravery of online anonymity?"

 

This New York Times piece by Richard Bernstein appeared almost a dozen years ago. The growing cowardice of online anonymity

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

Link to comment
12 hours ago, Rexp said:

The majority of solid state amps, for example, measure the same within the limits of human hearing. Correct or not? 

 

Yes, they measure well.

 

Whether it's within the limits of human hearing is a different matter. Try out the THD blind test and I'll have some information for you in May :-). This is because I have incorporated some thoughts about this in the choices I made for the test based on what I know of actual modern amplifier distortion levels.

 

 

 

Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile.

Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism.

:nomqa: R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press.

 

 

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

This is certainly a popular way to look at it for many, but completely misses the point of why many are here. People are here to enjoy a shared hobby and have fun along the way. There should be no burden of proof for anyone who just wants to hang out and talk to friends about something s/he enjoys. Talk about buzz killing. 

 

The new Objective-Fi area is perfect for those who think proof must be provided. Find a claim in the other areas of the forum, then demand proof in the obj forum. Live and let live. 

 

In addition, to suggest a consumer has the engineering burden of proof for anything is a bit over the top. 

 

Wit all due respect of course @Shimei :~)

 

Gotcha, the current or new sub-forum makes more sense to me now. Thanks for the clarification. 

 

Regarding the burden of proof I really appreciated the data a past automobile manufacturer brought to my attention. I purchased a 1997 Callaway Impala SS back in the day. Lots of sensational claims were made. Here's the kicker, Callaway [a division at the time of GM] received one Impala SS from the GM assembly line. They worked their magic, pulled the engine and put their slug into its place along with other modifications. The objective data was supplied [dyno runs], that is, before delivery to the dealer I picked up the car from they actually ran the car around a race track test facility included the speed and times as well as drag strip information to me the new owner. 

 

I suppose audio manufacturers actually test their gear? Is it really asking too much from them to post various signal graphs and charts? That is, rather than relying on a reviewer the manufacturer simply supplies the data in which reviewers may verify. Or is there Mr. Guy Tester that sits in every room and when you hit the power button on the remote his mouth opens and tells everyone in the room how the system sounds? 🤣

 

Drives me insane that my Tektons aren't supplied with such data nor in the case of my amplifier. In my ideal audio world such data would be readily available as manufacturers are transparent about their products 😀

 

Enjoy,

William

SMSL M400 DAC
Bluesound Node 2i

Sony 65 inch OLED A8G, Sony 4k Blue Ray X700

Parasound Halo A31 Amplifier

Tekton Ulfberht Speakers w/ Be high frequency upgrade [4 ohms ea.]
Two Tekton Active [300 watts rms] 4-10 Subwoofers

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...