fas42 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, esldude said: I wouldn't have used justify. But it is the key question never answered. As we know many believe what they hear.....period. Others know hearing is unreliable in some circumstances. So when someone hears something which is technically dubious or physically impossible others will point that out. And hence the problem. The "problem" is that some people have no trouble hearing the distortion introduced by sub-optimal implementation, design or integration of the electronic circuitry used for audio. And the 'objectivists' rail and rail against that concept, because it disturbs their thinking on how the world "should work!!" ... if they could just accept that the real world doesn't nicely fit together like the textbooks imply, then everyone would have a nicer time discussing what's going on ... tmtomh and sandyk 1 1 Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: @Samuel T Cogley are you really trying to be an audio martyr? If you want to leave, just leave rather than being so disruptive I have to ban you. His last question seemed genuine and I am not even sure I like the dude! (kidding, we have historically jousted). I am still hopeful of finding common ground. Let's give it a try? Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Samuel T Cogley said: This thread is disruptive? Man, that bar sure has lowered since the weekend. This thread in and of itself isn't disruptive. I can handle it. Your posts within it are getting a bit over the top. Just now, Samuel T Cogley said: When the civility dust up happened, I did exactly what you asked. I stopped all snarky comments. I contributed to the Polestar effort. I helped random people in the help thread. I know you are aware of these things. And I just kept quiet hoping others would too and your purge would not be necessary. Absolutely aware of this. You've expressed appreciation for this site and it has been really great to see you participate in a different fashion than snark. I'm also very appreciative of what you've done to help the site. Just now, Samuel T Cogley said: So hopefully you understand my disappointment when I was rewarded with the purge. I understand your disappointment, but I believe it's directed at the wrong person(s). Those who elected to not follow the rules are gone. Please voice your displeasure toward them for acting the way they did. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, The Computer Audiophile said: I understand your disappointment, but I believe it's directed at the wrong person(s). Those who elected to not follow the rules are gone. Please voice your displeasure toward them for acting the way they did. Ok, I'm leaving for now. When you re-instate Scoggins, can I come back for just one "I told you so"? 🙂 Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said: I must say I'm a little surprised to see you trolling. You know exactly what I mean. But here's an example, "MQA is great because Bob Stuart is smarter than you". Hi Sam. I wasn't trolling at all. What I was asking is that we actually consider what it would mean to have someone forced to justify what they are saying, both in terms of how one could possibly do that, and in terms of what it would mean to the opportunity for friendly conversation. I hope for enlightening conversation. Pretty much everyone knows more than I do about something. But if someone insists on what I think is a counterfactual, then I suppose I'm going to try to aim for friendly conversation at least, because otherwise not only don't you learn anything, the whole place becomes a bit more unpleasant. And what's the good in that? Before you say we need to be unpleasant to stop the snake oil purveyors, I hope you'll remember that I put together a couple of summary posts in the MQA thread that other people seemed to find helpful in determining that MQA was snake oil. And I didn't have to be unpleasant to anyone in order to do it. Now in terms of the possibility of forcing someone to justify what they were saying, there are plenty of folks here who just believe in their ears and don't know or care much about the science. What's the value in browbeating them? So I'm just not seeing either the possibility or the value of trying to force people to justify themselves. Teresa, AudioDoctor, Allan F and 2 others 1 4 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Samuel T Cogley said: Ok, I'm leaving for now. When you re-instate Scoggins, can I come back for just one "I told you so"? 🙂 OK, no worries. But what do I win if I don't reinstate him? fas42 and tapatrick 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Samuel T Cogley said: Ok, I'm leaving for now. When you re-instate Scoggins, can I come back for just one "I told you so"? 🙂 Darn, that isn't the direction I was hoping for. Best wishes to you. Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Popular Post Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, The Computer Audiophile said: OK, no worries. But what do I win if I don't reinstate him? For how long? I don't know Chris, he's Quint's boss now, it's just not a good look for the forum to have such an audiophile luminary banned. 🙂 I'm going to reply to Jud, then I'm out. Thank you! Jud, The Computer Audiophile and mourip 1 2 Link to comment
fas42 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, gmgraves said: This tells me that Ethernet cables (or USB cables for that matter) simply CAN’T alter the sound of the digital signal passing through them, BUT, THEY CLEARLY DO! Why? I haven’t a clue. So just as you can’t tell me why it should alter the sound, all I and those like me can do is tell you why it SHOULDN’T affect the sound. The reality is in fact very simple ... all real world implementations of circuitry, and connections have parasitic behaviours, which in audio are just enough to be audible - this was a lesson I learnt 35 years ago, and everything since keeps confirming this ... jumping up and down, pointing at a scope, and saying, "I can't see anything wrong!!" means a big fat zero - the ears are the primary deciders, measurements are very decidedly secondary. Link to comment
Popular Post Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jud said: Hi Sam. I wasn't trolling at all. Jud, I've always appreciated your kindness and relentless attempts to find "middle ground". But, with due respect, I see you more as a fixture here than as a dynamic poster. What I mean is that I can usually predict what you post before you post it. You've said the same thing many, many, many times here. Keep in mind now that all the miscreants have been purged, your posts will begin to look more snarky. You're next Jud! 😄 lucretius and pkane2001 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 Who the hell is Quint? tapatrick and The Computer Audiophile 2 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Jud Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: Keep in mind now that all the miscreants have been purged, your posts will begin to look more snarky. You're next Jud! 😄 I'll take the risk. 🙂 Go in peace. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, AudioDoctor said: Who the hell is Quint? Wasn't he in Mutiny on the Bounty? esldude and Samuel T Cogley 2 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Popular Post Iving Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, AudioDoctor said: Who the hell is Quint? A Starfleet Admiral Samuel T Cogley, 4est, Confused and 1 other 4 Link to comment
gmgraves Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 44 minutes ago, Allan F said: IMO, George, you are being far to kind to those people, and I suggest that you are attributing an undeserved favourable interpretation to their posts. Unlike you, who is prepared to accept the existence of these differences although you are unable to offer an explanation for them, they tend to adopt a very different approach. Not only do they insist that there can be no such sonic differences, but they also maintain that there is, in fact, no possible sonic difference. Moreover, they tend to ridicule anyone who suggests that there is, and declare that anyone who does so is deluding himself/herself. As I said earlier, there is no excuse for incivility on any subject. Having said that, I do understand their extreme skepticism. Cables are passive, not active components. That means that any alteration of sound attributable to cables, be that alteration on an analog cable or a digital cable, is caused because something in the signal is being SUBTRACTED from that signal, as cables, by definition, cannot add anything. I know that Ethernet cables and USB cables change the sound because I’ve heard it. I suspect that these naysayers of which we speak here, have not heard it. When you haven’t experienced a phenomenon, and that phenomenon, by all knowledgeable accounts SHOULDN’T HAPPEN, it’s easy to attribute it to some non-system based cause like one’s imagination, or perhaps a willingness to lie for reasons of self-aggrandizement. After years of denial, I started to notice, for instance, that every different USB cable I tried sounded different. I became so frustrated by this (and technology’s inability to explain it) that I purged USB from my system where possible I now use only SPDIF for digital (and mostly Toslink, at that) because I have found that SPDIF does not change the sound from cable to cable (either coax or Toslink). I realize that Toslink limits me to a 96KHz sampling rate, but I think that higher than that just Makes the file size bigger without providing (for me, anyway) a concomitant increase in SQ (diminishing returns, and all that). As usual, YMMV! sandyk 1 George Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Jud said: Wasn't he in Mutiny on the Bounty? Just now, Iving said: A Starfleet Admiral I thought it was Jaws... Kyhl 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Iving Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 You got there first Jud 😉 Samuel T Cogley 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Bill Brown Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 The day Jud misbehaves and gets banned we should all tremble that the apocalypse is upon us. Seriously in the running for the coolest dude on the site. Jeff_N, The Computer Audiophile, fas42 and 4 others 3 1 3 Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bill Brown said: Seriously in the running for the coolest dude on the site. You should meet him in person :~) Bill Brown and 4est 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
gmgraves Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jud said: Wasn't he in Mutiny on the Bounty? He was! George Link to comment
Jud Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 You keep doing that, guys, and I may have to leave from sheer embarrassment. No more of that stuff! (And grateful thanks to @AudioDoctor, sincerely, for laughing at the idea!)) Bill Brown 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
fas42 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said: For me, anyone who is in this hobby and utterly rejects the notion of confirmation bias or the merits of blind testing is somewhere on the irrational scale. Where exactly isn't really the issue. But there is a sort of stubbornness with some when it comes to accepting the existence of confirmation bias. I'm not saying that's you, but you've never struck me as a paragon of rational thought. Perhaps I misjudged? "cables sound different and I don't know why" isn't as eye popping to me as, "I can't explain why I believe what I believe, I just do". And I see the stubbornness of those who refuse to try and understand why using "confirmation bias" as a stick to beat people over the head with, every time they don't like what the person is saying, is just downright annoying and irritating. This blind belief that people are just dopey, most of the time, reminds me of a episode of "Doc Martin" ... as one of the characters in the series say, "People in the village think you're just a tosser, but I like you" - or something along those lines ... 😝. Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 A thought occurred to me. If MQA were a sponsor, Lee Scoggins would probably have 14,700 posts here! Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jud said: You keep doing that, guys, and I may have to leave from sheer embarrassment. No more of that stuff! (And grateful thanks to @AudioDoctor, sincerely, for laughing at the idea!)) Ever humble and a gentleman OK, I'll stop. But I have always liked and respected your posts. Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Popular Post rickca Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: When you re-instate Scoggins @The Computer Audiophile, please tell me you have no plan to invite Lee Scoggins back. All he did was try to promote his upcoming articles and continue the MQA obfuscation. I see no connection anyway between introduction of the Objective-Fi subforum and the idea of bringing Lee back. tmtomh and Teresa 2 Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
Recommended Posts