Popular Post Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 While I completely agree, I suspect this ship has already sailed. Look at all the polite posts made by the polite people celebrating (politely, of course) the conquest of those rude rational thinkers! CC took the gloves off completely, so this thread is an exercise in utter futility IMHO. CC believes without reservation that the "true believers" should never be made to feel uncomfortable or have to justify their irrational beliefs. I don't think there's anything else to be said. And let's not beat around the bush, True Believers spend way more money than rational thinkers. Despite CC's protestations, having a forum that never challenges irrational thought will be a draw to the True Believers, and that's clearly where the money is. All that's left is for Quint to pop in and declare that Chris made the right decision, and Scoggins will be suddenly unbanned and all will be forgiven. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris actually apologizes. This is the new day that has dawned here. Let them sing "ding, dong, the witch is dead" to their heart's content. It's not the witch that died, but they'll never believe that. Best to just boycott the forum completely I think. Confused, Teresa, andrewinukm and 8 others 4 1 6 Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: "true believers" should never be made to feel uncomfortable or have to justify their irrational beliefs. Just wondering what the proper terminology is when asking audiophiles to justify their beliefs. "Stand and deliver!"? Teresa, mav52, Rexp and 6 others 1 2 5 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Iving Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Jud said: Just wondering what the proper terminology is when asking audiophiles to justify their beliefs. "Stand and deliver!"? You have a nice way of putting things. The whole post is snark and absurd. sandyk 1 Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jud said: Just wondering what the proper terminology is when asking audiophiles to justify their beliefs. "Stand and deliver!"? I must say I'm a little surprised to see you trolling. You know exactly what I mean. But here's an example, "MQA is great because Bob Stuart is smarter than you". sandyk 1 Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: While I completely agree, I suspect this ship has already sailed. Look at all the polite posts made by the polite people celebrating (politely, of course) the conquest of those rude rational thinkers! CC took the gloves off completely, so this thread is an exercise in utter futility IMHO. CC believes without reservation that the "true believers" should never be made to feel uncomfortable or have to justify their irrational beliefs. I don't think there's anything else to be said. And let's not beat around the bush, True Believers spend way more money than rational thinkers. Despite CC's protestations, having a forum that never challenges irrational thought will be a draw to the True Believers, and that's clearly where the money is. All that's left is for Quint to pop in and declare that Chris made the right decision, and Scoggins will be suddenly unbanned and all will be forgiven. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris actually apologizes. This is the new day that has dawned here. Let them sing "ding, dong, the witch is dead" to their heart's content. It's not the witch that died, but they'll never believe that. Best to just boycott the forum completely I think. Writing posts that make you sound like a "true believer" in conspiracy theories and the type of thinking behind them isn't a very convincing argument for your position. I think you have completely misread Chris and his motives. I suggest that to back up your assertions you should setup some surveillance equipment at Chris' house so you can see him sitting around his cauldron with Scoggins and Quint, cooking up some evil potions that induce irrational thought in every audiophile who drinks a cup. Be sure to post the video on YouTube or at ASR so we can see it. I promise to apologize to you for this post as soon as you do so. sandyk, The Computer Audiophile, Confused and 1 other 2 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, firedog said: Writing posts that make you sound like a "true believer" in conspiracy theories and the type of thinking behind them isn't a very convincing argument for your position. I think you have completely misread Chris and his motives. I suggest that to back up your assertions you should setup some surveillance equipment at Chris' house so you can see him sitting around his cauldron with Scoggins and Quint, cooking up some evil potions that induce irrational thought in every audiophile who drinks a cup. Be sure to post the video on YouTube or at ASR so we can see it. I promise to apologize to you for this post as soon as you do so. To me, this forum used to be a place where the traditional audiophile "influencers" had no power. And that, more than anything else, made it a place I looked forward to visiting. This purge marks the end of that era. With the restrictions on irrational thought now lifted, the forum will be fertile ground for the traditional influencers. Tell you what: When Scoggins becomes a regular poster here again, I'll be happy to give you the opportunity to apologize. 🙂 sandyk 1 Link to comment
Popular Post christopher3393 Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 Can you say something about why this matters so much to you? Do you honestly think you are being objective? It reads more to me like being indignant. That you feel betrayed and the forum is now your nemesis. Or it is a rhetorical gesture. Seems out of proportion with what is at stake on a hobby forum, given the genuine evils that exist in this world. sandyk, AudioDoctor and The Computer Audiophile 2 1 Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, christopher3393 said: Can you say something about why this matters so much to you? Do you honestly think you are being objective? It has been literally years since you addressed me directly in this forum. I'm quite skeptical of your intentions now. Link to comment
Popular Post charlesphoto Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 This has nothing to do with rational or irrational thought, and everything to do with rational and irrational behavior. If you can't parse that then I'm truly sorry for you and perhaps, as CC might say, you need to move on and find your fulfillment elsewhere. IMO CC was being entirely diplomatic when he said mansr's contributions would be missed, because as long as I've been around here I haven't seen him contribute one single thing beyond one liner snark and naysaying. Pretty easy to rack up 13,000 posts when that's one's m.o. My prediction is the "objectivists" thread is going to be a very lonely place, because more often than not they have their rigid, marked in stone stance, but very little to back it up - i.e. prove without a doubt why ethernet cables absolutely couldn't make a difference in sound, vs always haranguing those who hear a difference to prove why they do. Repeated, empty phrases about 'science' and 'measurements' is just another flip side of subjectivism if you ask me. Maybe it comes down to obstinance vs curiosity. I'll always choose the side of curiosity - it's what I try and teach my children. Sonic77, thyname, gstew and 7 others 8 2 SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: To me, this forum used to be a place where the traditional audiophile "influencers" had no power. And that, more than anything else, made it a place I looked forward to visiting. This purge marks the end of that era. With the restrictions on irrational thought now lifted, the forum will be fertile ground for the traditional influencers. Tell you what: When Scoggins becomes a regular poster here again, I'll be happy to give you the opportunity to apologize. 🙂 Here comes from you the labels and pejorative descriptors again- "influencers," "purge," "irrational thought." Must be hard when anyone that disagrees with your world view is "irrationaI." At least it has been a while, though, since you accused someone being a "sock puppet" (something you persisted with with me for ages), a "shill," or an "astroturfer," whatever the heck that is. This, to me, is exactly the type of tone and behavior that makes a forum suck. You remain to me the most effective internet-forum jouster I have encountered. It is highly developed! Makes me nervous about responding to you as I never participated in the old "wild west internet." You simply enjoyed your chosen "influencers," the "rational," who picked up their marbles and went home (and I wish they hadn't really). Bill sandyk 1 Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, charlesphoto said: This has nothing to do with rational or irrational thought, and everything to do with rational and irrational behavior. If you can't parse that then I'm truly sorry for you and perhaps, as CC might say, you need to move on and find your fulfillment elsewhere. IMO CC was being entirely diplomatic when he said mansr's contributions would be missed, because as long as I've been around here I haven't seen him contribute one single thing beyond one liner snark and naysaying. Pretty easy to rack up 13,000 posts when that's one's m.o. My prediction is the "objectivists" thread is going to be a very lonely place, because more often than not they have their rigid, marked in stone stance, but very little to back it up - i.e. prove without a doubt why ethernet cables absolutely couldn't make a difference in sound, vs always haranguing those who hear a difference to prove why they do. Repeated, empty phrases about 'science' and 'measurements' is just another flip side of subjectivism if you ask me. Maybe it comes down to obstinance vs curiosity. I'll always choose the side of curiosity - it's what I try and teach my children. Amen! Also, doesn't anyone remember Chris describing the members as the most impressive collection on the fora as he defended them against outside "influencer" attackers? Rocket scientists, engineering pioneers, etc? He was being sincere! The Computer Audiophile 1 Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, charlesphoto said: This has nothing to do with rational or irrational thought, and everything to do with rational and irrational behavior. I think we just have different definitions of what that behavior might be. "please don't let anyone make be feel stupid" is a pretty irrational thought IMHO. "please purge the forum of everyone who makes me feel stupid" crosses the line to behavior. YMMV, of course. Link to comment
Popular Post christopher3393 Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: It has been literally years since you addressed me directly in this forum. I'm quite skeptical of your intentions now. Understandable. As I am of yours. You once insisted that I was part of a conspiratorial shadow moderation of the forum that was intent on imposing a false and deceptive civility. Imo.the conspiratorial flavor continues in some of your recent posts. I don't see anything terribly rational or empirical in it. But if you can explain I have no problem with good faith responses. You also worked pretty hard to protect Brinkman Ship from what you projected to be my desire to trip him up and get him banned. I think Brink kind of embodied pushing abusive speech to the limit here, without getting banned. He was actually banned when CC discovered that he was a person who had already been banned twice for breaking the rules repeatedly. My impression was an is that all of this and more is not only ok with you, but supported and encouraged. What is a moderator to do with members that don't respect the forum rules, which have been quite lenient overall? I think CC was very, very tolerant for years. But it has taken its toll over time. IMO, recent changes were more about trying to avoid anything like a purge. He did and does not want to lose the members that have left, but a moderator must insist on some good faith effort to cooperate. And that is at the very least. Good luck to you. sandyk, Bill Brown, Sonic77 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Samuel T Cogley said: "please don't let anyone make be feel stupid" is a pretty irrational thought IMHO. "please purge the forum of everyone who makes me feel stupid" crosses the line to behavior. YMMV, of course. Lord help us. It never ends. Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bill Brown said: Here comes from you the labels and pejorative descriptors again- "influencers," I remember meeting you when you came to support Lavorgna after he was banned. I also remember you used your work experience with mentally disabled people to offer armchair diagnoses of forum members. Good times! Please, can we please get some of that wisdom in this thread? It's just what's needed! Iving 1 Link to comment
Iving Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: Please, can we please get some of that wisdom in this thread? It's just what's needed! I like that you say "IMHO" in capital letters. Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Iving said: I like that you say "IMHO" in capital letters. It's an acronym? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment
Popular Post JoeWhip Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 My Lord, this is an audio forum. Calm down guys. The Computer Audiophile, andrewinukm and emcdade 2 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Allan F Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said: I must say I'm a little surprised to see you trolling. You know exactly what I mean. But here's an example, "MQA is great because Bob Stuart is smarter than you". You really need to give your head a shake if you actually believe that Jud is trolling. Coming from one so adamant in supporting the unfettered right to "challenge", it strikes me as the epitome of hypocrisy. sandyk, The Computer Audiophile and Sonic77 2 1 "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, christopher3393 said: I think CC was very, very tolerant for years. But it has taken its toll over time. IMO, recent changes were more about trying to avoid anything like a purge. He did and does not want to lose the members that have left, but a moderator must insist on some good faith effort to cooperate. And that is at the very least. You have been waiting for this day for some time. Enjoy it. Heck, revel in your complete victory over those rude people you detest so very much. You won! Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Allan F said: You really need to give your head a shake if you actually believe that Jud is trolling. Coming from one so adamant in supporting the unfettered right to "challenge", it strikes me as the epitome of hypocrisy. I'm pretty sure you have been nothing but antagonistic towards me since my very first post here. With due respect, your opinion is meaningless to me. Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: I remember meeting you when you came to support Lavorgna after he was banned. I also remember you used your work experience with mentally disabled people to offer armchair diagnoses of forum members. Good times! Please, can we please get some of that wisdom in this thread? It's just what's needed! I wasn't supporting Lavorgna. Heck, you thought I was Lavorgna and were part of a grand inquisition about it! What bothered me was the name-calling and abuse from behind an anonymous screen name. To call another man a coward (not necessarily by you or to him, but several others) is just unfathomable to me. I will concede victory to you now. I am beginning to feel too feisty and don't want to go down that road again. I hope you find happiness in your future pursuits, Bill Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Allan F Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: I'm pretty sure you have been nothing but antagonistic towards me since my very first post here. With due respect, your opinion is meaningless to me. The inclusion of "with due respect" is another clear example of hypocrisy. Be that as it may, I couldn't care less what you think of my opinions. While written in reply, my post was intended for a wider audience. "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bill Brown said: What bothered me was the name-calling and abuse from behind an anonymous screen name. To call another man a coward (not necessarily him, but several others) is just unfathomable to me. You might be mixed up and this was an extremely awkward attempt to call me a coward (anonymous screen name?). Show me where I called someone a coward, please. Link to comment
Popular Post Archimago Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 Hmmm guys, to be honest I don't like the change either and think CC's incorrect; we'll leave that for another discussion... However, is it possible to make the "Objective-Fi" forum become actually the most popular of the forums on here? Actually "the" place to go to for truly open and honest debate? A place where truth and facts about technology and hardware matter more than some bland concept of "respect" that honours members of the Industry just because they say so, and afraid of stepping on toes because someone might feel bad about it and shy to speak up. Courtesy does not mean having to agree with all opinions and there comes a time when one just has to express to another "you're wrong... here's why..." But let's still be courteous. Members could easily look at the topics from other forums and import some of the questions being asked and speak about it candidly. Even if objective-talk and attitudes are ring-fenced into some kind of virtual "underground", we could make that underground a place that even subjectivists know to look at to really get another, potentially more complete discussion... At least the subjective folks who appreciate that maybe it's good to take the "red pill" and come to terms with reality might find this interesting. Heck, we could even respond in the regular forums with a message like "Guys, I have something to say about it... Take the red pill and check out the O-F thread on this." 😉 Just a thought. Teresa, k-man, lucretius and 8 others 8 1 2 Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile. Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism. R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
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