Popular Post firedog Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Sal1950 said: Very simple, finding the best performing/measuring components minus any non-verifiable BS. In search of real High Fidelity. 3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Why is there support for MQA there? Yeah if you criticize MQA or point out that Bob and company are less than honest Amir lectures you about what an award winning engineer BS is and how that answers all doubts about MQA. Talk about non-verifiable BS...What? The Computer Audiophile, MikeyFresh, opus101 and 3 others 4 1 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 10 hours ago, PeterG said: Hi Chris, I applaud this (long overdue) effort to get rid of some of the incivility on AS. I'm also a subjectivist with little need to read the 100th iteration of the same objectivist statement. But it is OK to read the same subjective statement a million times... Why do you have to hide behind the teachers legs, provide proof, explanations and fight science with science, because music reproduction is science... Making and creating music is art, capturing, recording and playback is engineering. Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 10 hours ago, bobflood said: My guess is that they depart voluntarily when they realize that nobody is paying attention any more. The time to cull them out easily has long since past. It would have easier earlier on. And if you think this is bad now, (MSNBC vs Fox type behavior) just wait until this summer. Yes CENSORSHIP that's the way forward so No claim however daft it is can be questioned, and thus the manufacturers get richer.... pkane2001 1 Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 9 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Real censorship is you guys continuing to drive people away until there's nobody left. Nobody talking about HiFi because of your crusade. What questioning beliefs that are not backed up by science or engineering... I could go on about how I have seen hi-fi dwindle from readily available systems in the likes of Curry's, Walmart etc. to where we are now... directional fuses for one... You comment does say a lot though on where you want this site to go, you claim an open mind, but you language says different... Again why do the hard core subjective beliefs need so much protection from questioning? pkane2001 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Iving Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, marce said: provide proof, explanations and fight science with science, because music reproduction is science... Making and creating music is art, capturing, recording and playback is engineering. 11 minutes ago, marce said: No claim however daft it is can be questioned, and thus the manufacturers get richer.... There is no sound (sic) basis for my having - against my will - to tolerate unsolicited challenges from you or anybody else to provide "proof" for my musical enjoyment, to be cajoled to "fight science with science" [lol] when all I want is pleasant hobby-conversation. Nor to be coerced to contemplate "engineering" when I am in bliss. (After all, I contrived all my own system-engineering for the sake of that uncontaminated bliss reward.) I am scientifically trained. I taught postgraduate research over many years. Eventually I tutored my masters, providing statistical support for their own research. [omg now I sound like Amir.] That's not what I come here for - to justify myself - or argue the toss with whomsoever wants to satisfy themselves with being "right" about what to me is trivial. I come here to enjoy myself, and don't want to be diverted from my happiness by a Wiki-hinged Scientism agenda. There is a very serious lack of appreciation of psychology, philosophy and the hitherto-unknown in the "objectivist" approach I see here. No intellectual humility whatsoever (I mean in relation to the phantom prospect that the physical or material sciences hold all the answers with you guys as unwavering champions of that cause). I dare say I would be very much interested in serious debates around engineering and music psychology - but it is absolutely clear that a small number of objectivist-crusaders arm themselves with mockery at the drop of a hat and THAT IS THEIR REAL AGENDA. I have some sympathy with the problem of profiteering in the music industry, but I am not willing to pay the price for your satisfaction in that regard. sandyk, Teresa, tapatrick and 8 others 5 2 4 Link to comment
Popular Post Teresa Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 13 hours ago, audiobomber said: ...I like to hear opinions from both camps, which happens on this site, and I hope will continue. I like to hear all points of view, and especially personal experiences, just don't beat a dead horse or berate others who disagree. IMO< it's not content that needs controlling, it's attitude and tone. I agree with you. I too like to read all sides and I have never put anyone on my ignore list. I identify as a thrifty subjectivist, but I'm really closer to an audio nihilist as I don't believe anything I've not heard with my own ear / brain system. There are tons of audio related stuff that I have no interest in because their description sounds too wacky to me, or I don't believe it will benefit the sound of my system, or is too expensive. But I never tell anyone I don't believe them as I would consider that rude. I can't speak for anyone else, however I have always accepted that other people may be able to hear something I cannot. 😊 This is why I need to audition whatever I'm interested in purchasing in my system and I buy only with a satisfaction money-back guarantee. So I take personal experiences, reviews, ad copy and even published specifications with great skepticism. Just because someone else loves something it doesn’t follow that I will too, I might, I might not, or whatever it is may not make any difference I can hear. I believe each person should listen for themselves because they are the ones who listen to their music though whatever they are considering purchasing. However, I do love reading about music and audio. I hope the new Objective-Fi forum makes AS more enjoyable. I will of course be visiting as I enjoy reading all sides. 😊 Allan F, darkmass, audiobomber and 6 others 3 6 I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Iving said: There is no sound (sic) basis for my having - against my will - to tolerate unsolicited challenges from you or anybody else to provide "proof" for my musical enjoyment, to be cajoled to "fight science with science" [lol] when all I want is pleasant hobby-conversation. Nor to be coerced to contemplate "engineering" when I am in bliss. (After all, I contrived all my own system-engineering for the sake of that uncontaminated bliss reward.) I am scientifically trained. I taught postgraduate research over many years. Eventually I tutored my masters, providing statistical support for their own research. [omg now I sound like Amir.] That's not what I come here for - to justify myself - or argue the toss with whomsoever wants to satisfy themselves with being "right" about what to me is trivial. I come here to enjoy myself, and don't want to be diverted from my happiness by a Wiki-hinged Scientism agenda. There is a very serious lack of appreciation of psychology, philosophy and the hitherto-unknown in the "objectivist" approach I see here. No intellectual humility whatsoever (I mean in relation to the phantom prospect that the physical or material sciences hold all the answers with you guys as unwavering champions of that cause). I dare say I would be very much interested in serious debates around engineering and music psychology - but it is absolutely clear that a small number of objectivist-crusaders arm themselves with mockery at the drop of a hat and THAT IS THEIR REAL AGENDA. I have some sympathy with the problem of profiteering in the music industry, but I am not willing to pay the price for your satisfaction in that regard. Sorry, could you be a bit more concise in you reply, to many words to little content. Thanks🙂 So I presume you are saying that however silly a claim is; it CANNOT be questioned because it may ruin your enjoyment! Link to comment
Iving Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, marce said: Sorry, could you be a bit more concise in you reply, to many words to little content. Thanks🙂 So I presume you are saying that however silly a claim is; it CANNOT be questioned because it may ruin your enjoyment! well there you go - that's what we have here Link to comment
andrewinukm Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I urge Chris to implement the "no a**h***" button. Post with too many dislikes/complaints automatically gets hidden and no one is allowed to quote and reply to it, so that everyone is forced to not engage it. And a giant warning sign above the post and avatar. Whoever is misbehaving will get flagged by the thread participants and the post will be frozen. MikeyFresh 1 Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Iving said: well there you go - that's what we have here Sorry I didn't write a huge reply, to a simple question. Read your reply its got all the usual stuff... You are scientifically trained... is it relative, I presume its not in electronics or physics... 14 minutes ago, Iving said: There is a very serious lack of appreciation of psychology, philosophy and the hitherto-unknown in the "objectivist" approach I see here. Sorry but this actually applies to subjective's and probably more so. I learnt that perception can easily be fooled so I don't rely on my listening experiences alone... Ajax 1 Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, andrewinukm said: I urge Chris to implement the "no a**h***" button. Post with too many dislikes/complaints automatically gets hidden and no one is allowed to quote and reply to it, so that everyone is forced to not engage it. And a giant warning sign above the post and avatar. Whoever is misbehaving will get flagged by the thread participants and the post will be frozen. I'd go one further, get all their personal details and start a class action case for libellous content designed to upset my hard held beliefs! Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 To be perfectly honest, I find it all a bit pathetic and trowing the dummy out of the pram, considering the numerous claims its just a hobby, so many take it so seriously, it brings a smile to my otherwise miserable visage. If it is a hobby take it less seriously, if its not a hobby then it becomes a religion, dangerous. Which is it? Link to comment
Popular Post Mercman Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, marce said: To be perfectly honest, I find it all a bit pathetic and trowing the dummy out of the pram, considering the numerous claims its just a hobby, so many take it so seriously, it brings a smile to my otherwise miserable visage. If it is a hobby take it less seriously, if its not a hobby then it becomes a religion, dangerous. Which is it? It is nothing more than a hobby. Most of the people here are well educated and make a good living to afford these toys. I think implementing the new policy will be difficult. How, for example, is the “Objectivist” going to refrain from jumping in to a discussion singing the sonic praises of the new Gizmo Ethernet cable? STC and tmtomh 1 1 Steve Plaskin Link to comment
STC Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 It is a hobby without clear cut objective. Like... I am still unable to understand why audiophiles think 2 channel is better than 5.1. Are they after fidelity or something else? The Computer Audiophile 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
andrewinukm Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Ralf11 said: Have you ever been on a sports car forum?? Track times are always mentioned and compared. Lame as lame can be. Not exactly a person of scientific mind. I know track times are always mentioned. I would look at track times myself too. But I wasn't talking about track times, I specifically said "handles better". Noticed how fast you derail the this thread? And no one becomes as asshole when another person talks about ride handling, or start derailing the discussion. A person can be objectivist and put across scientific facts and data, and still be respectful to others. A true scientist would be curious enough to test and discover for himself instead of being lazy and asking to be fed with measurements. A**h****s often lack this scientific curiosity, but likes to claim to be non-biased and objective minded. Which is a contradiction I find amusing. darkmass 1 Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 4 hours ago, firedog said: That's one point of view and unfortunately for you, not the only one. Some people don't call it HiFi, they call it "audiophilia", which means something else. Lots of people in the hobby don't view it as you do. Deal with it. They aren't "wrong", they have a different goal than you. They are wrong because they want to silence a difference of opinion not because their opinion or goal is different. tmtomh 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 hours ago, marce said: I'd go one further, get all their personal details and start a class action case for libellous content designed to upset my hard held beliefs! Don't give them any ideas! -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: They are wrong because they want to silence a difference of opinion not because their opinion or goal is different. No, they don't want to silence you. They just want to be able to have a discussion without being interrupted and told how wrong they are. Outside of the forum do you just walk up to other people having a conversation, interrupt, and tell them they are wrong? Why not? Don't you want to expose them to the truth and prevent them from believing in "unscientific" ideas? I'm sure "they" are perfectly happy for you discuss your ideas in objectivist or other threads designed to be all inclusive, such as a "what do you guys think about...." thread. marioed, Iving, Teresa and 3 others 2 4 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, andrewinukm said: Lame as lame can be. Not exactly a person of scientific mind. I know track times are always mentioned. I would look at track times myself too. But I wasn't talking about track times, I specifically said "handles better". Noticed how fast you derail the this thread? And no one becomes as asshole when another person talks about ride handling, or start derailing the discussion. A person can be objectivist and put across scientific facts and data, and still be respectful to others. A true scientist would be curious enough to test and discover for himself instead of being lazy and asking to be fed with measurements. A**h****s often lack this scientific curiosity, but likes to claim to be non-biased and objective minded. Which is a contradiction I find amusing. Who are you a plant? You seem to have appeared from nowhere as a protector of the subjective's... What does worry me is you seem to have a fetish for the letters A,H & S and the asterisk symbol! Is your keyboard defective of do you just like implying insults to certain people...😀 To put it bluntly the majority of your posts are designed to be insulting... mansr 1 Link to comment
Popular Post pkane2001 Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, firedog said: No, they don't want to silence you. They just want to be able to have a discussion without being interrupted and told how wrong they are. Outside of the forum do you just walk up to other people having a conversation, interrupt, and tell them they are wrong? Why not? Don't you want to expose them to the truth and prevent them from believing in "unscientific" ideas? I'm sure "they" are perfectly happy for you discuss your ideas in objectivist or other threads designed to be all inclusive, such as a "what do you guys think about...." thread. I don't walk up to anyone here or on the street to force my opinion on them. When I think I have an answer or something to contribute, based on experience or something I learned or discovered through study, I want to be able to share it. I get shouted down here, just like many others. Lately, Chris has been very much participating in this process, and this latest change turns it into an enforceable rule. Sorry, I'm not for building ghettos and safe sanctuaries. I'm for free exchange of opinion. I prefer to hear opinions other than my own, because that's how I learn. I guess CA/AS is no longer the place for open discussion. Sad but true. mansr, The Computer Audiophile and marce 2 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
marce Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, firedog said: No, they don't want to silence you. They just want to be able to have a discussion without being interrupted and told how wrong they are. Outside of the forum do you just walk up to other people having a conversation, interrupt, and tell them they are wrong? Why not? Don't you want to expose them to the truth and prevent them from believing in "unscientific" ideas? I'm sure "they" are perfectly happy for you discuss your ideas in objectivist or other threads designed to be all inclusive, such as a "what do you guys think about...." thread. ????? This is (or was) an open forum, not just some random conversation in the street... Again its down to not upsetting beliefs or challenging them if incorrect. Link to comment
Iving Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, marce said: its down to not upsetting beliefs or challenging them if incorrect You are obsessed - ANTISOCIALLY - with controlling the "beliefs" of others - as here: Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, pkane2001 said: I don't walk up to anyone here or on the street to force my opinion on them. When I think I have an answer or something to contribute, based on experience or something I learned or discovered through study, I want to be able to share it. I get shouted down here, just like many others. You may think that's what you are doing, and that may be your intent, but it isn't what you are actually doing. If the OT is "USB Cable Comparisons" and you join in to tell them the whole discussion is baseless and anti-scientific and is a waste of time b/c USB cables can't sound different, you aren't actually contributing, or sharing, or helping them. You are simply interrupting their conversation and pushing it to what they see as off topic and insulting. Such a topic isn't a "newbie" topic and is almost always populated by experienced hobbyists who are paying not insignificant amounts for their setup and all their tweaks you find pointless. Sorry, but it's incredibly arrogant of you to think that with your "objectivist" posts at such a thread your "contributing to their knowledge from your study and experience": Seriously, why would you assume such people aren't already aware of your arguments? They've also studied and have experience. They are aware of your arguments and have started a thread purposely designed NOT to discuss your position, which they've already considered and rejected. So when you enter such a thread, you ARE essentially just "walking up and forcing your opinion" on them. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand. But it is apparently just the reason that Chris' new rules need to be implemented, as apparently some people have trouble making this distinction. And again, if it's a newbie thread or a thread where the OT is obviously open ended, then please contribute from your ideas and study. sandyk, 4est, Iving and 4 others 3 1 3 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, marce said: ????? This is (or was) an open forum, not just some random conversation in the street... Again its down to not upsetting beliefs or challenging them if incorrect. See my previous post, your understanding of what the discussions on the forum often are about and who is often conducting them seems to be lacking. Teresa and opus101 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post Iving Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, firedog said: I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand. But it is apparently just the reason that Chris' new rules need to be implemented, as apparently some people have trouble making this distinction. ^ This encapsulates the present problem. Teresa and 4est 2 Link to comment
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