Popular Post audiobomber Posted February 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2020 IME, objectivists and subjectivists don't often share an audio site. When they do, there is often a page reserved for one or the other, as Chris is proposing. I like to hear opinions from both camps, which happens on this site, and I hope will continue. I like to hear all points of view, and especially personal experiences, just don't beat a dead horse or berate others who disagree. IMO< it's not content that needs controlling, it's attitude and tone. Audiophile Neuroscience, tmtomh and Teresa 1 2 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Popular Post audiobomber Posted February 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: If people don't think audio is an inherently subjective pursuit, there is always Hydrogen Audio where nothing subjective is allowed. Or Audio Science Review. I believe that DIYAudio is the model for objectivist/subjectivist tolerance. Both are present in large numbers. Opinions and counter-opinions are aired frequently, and the thread moves on. There is a pretty noticeable moderator presence. Iving, tapatrick and 4est 3 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
audiobomber Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: That place is very far from an objective pursuit of HiFi. But, I encourage people to have fun there if it's more their style. ASR is another example of a place "where nothing subjective is allowed". lucretius and wgscott 2 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Popular Post audiobomber Posted February 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Absolutely false. Read an "objective" review of a product that Amir doesn't like. It's all gussied up with subjective sauce talking about cheapness of the chassis etc... By "objective", I do not mean "unbiased". I mean he measures, but rarely listens. When he does deign to listen, it's only through a pair of HD 650 headphones. Headphones are a piss poor way to evaluate hi-fi, since they have no soundstaging capability, and the HD 650 is quite coloured. But I was not just talking about Amir's "reviews" I was referencing the mindset on that website. Go to ASR, post about the cables you use and see what kind of reception you get. [sarcasm] You need to sell all of your ridiculous audiophile cables immediately, and buy Mogami and Belden, you poor deluded sap. [/sarcasm] tmtomh, soares and thyname 2 1 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
audiobomber Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I generally respond in the tone of the post I'm responding to, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So if the attitude of a few people improve or they leave, the tone of the site improves. I don't want objectivists or technical experts to leave, but if someone can't be civil, then better they go. Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Popular Post audiobomber Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, kumakuma said: I think those who decided to leave felt unappreciated. I can't help but think that a simple message from Chris along the lines of the following would have prevented much of this unpleasantness and the exodus of good people: "Sorry to hear you've decided to leave. I wish you'd reconsider this decision as you're a valued member of this forum." No, I did not appreciate Ralf11's constant trolling and inane jokes. As for the others, the knowledge was welcome, as was their right to express their opinions. The knowledge contributions though were not enough to outweigh the belligerence. Frankly, there are a few others who need to improve their attitudes. thyname, joelha, daverich4 and 2 others 5 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
audiobomber Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 38 minutes ago, Don Hills said: Part of the problem is that beliefs without much scientific basis, such as USB cables sounding significantly different, are part of the enjoyment of this hobby. I enjoy driving my car more after I've just cleaned and polished it. I feel it goes faster and handles better. Objectively, I know it performs no better but I enjoy it more. So it is with system tweaks and listening. I don't accept your analogy. USB cables sound different in my system, and also to most audiophiles. Polishing my car does not make it feel faster or handle better. Obviously not much point in debating it here, but I didn't want to let it slide. That kind of statement is the basis for most of the disagreement and rancor on this board. Since there are engineers and scientists who disagree with you, it is clearly not an established fact that only audiophiles believe that USB cables can sound significantly different. Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
audiobomber Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 46 minutes ago, Don Hills said: Relevance of analogy noted. Difference of opinion accepted. You also provide a good example of behaviour that should not be accepted in the objective sub-forum: appeals to authority without links to evidence. Clearly you'll fit in very well over there. Best of luck to you. Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Popular Post audiobomber Posted February 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2020 11 hours ago, nugget said: My experience is 100% the opposite of what you report. I think you've fallen victim to the false consensus effect. You lost me at "...and also to most audiophiles" which is something you can't possibly know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect Not sure if @nugget still here, but also for others who've become involved: Nugget called me out based on "false consensus". Maybe I should have said "IMO, most audiophiles believe USB cables sound different", but it's a post on an audio forum, not an engineering white paper. Most audiophile publications have tested USB cables and heard differences, most audiophiles (IMO), read the audiophile press, who are opinion leaders, therefore I believe most audiophiles share the opinion. USB cable threads on this site show a pretty clear majority for believers, IMO. (If you disagree, feel free to count the pro & anti responses in the currently running USB cable threads.) The audiophiles I know locally share my opinion on USB cables, none disagree. I have no wish to be involved in yet another cable death spiral. I can't convince Nugget, he won't convince me. I'm interested in tests and measurements, and appreciate solid engineering. I read about audio daily. I listen to both sides of the arguments, then do my own listening tests; ABX blind where possible, which is not often. IME, extended listening in my own system is by far the most telling method, blind or not. I hear clear differences in USB cables, my tests showed no differences in ethernet cables. I do not argue with people who say that ethernet cables affect SQ. A few people on this board generate most of the conflict with what they call "rational" views. I say they're close-minded. As a general group, objectivists believe that all competently designed amps and CD players sound the same, cables and tweaks are audiophile nonsense. I call them anti-audiophiles, which will no doubt cause a reaction, but they are outside the hobby AFAIC. I've discussed audio on the internet for as long as it's been possible to do so. I've heard all the arguments. I don't want to have to conduct market research or scour the web to support my findings whenever I post an opinion. I come here to learn, discuss audio and share what I can. Chris' analogy of "pissing in the punch bowl" perfectly describes how I feel about the people who've left or been pushed out in the past few days. Yes, it takes two to tango, and we can all do better. I have great hopes that the Objectivist Forum will succeed. I will definitely follow the content and contribute if/when I can. So far it is being misused to ridicule audiophiles and gripe about policy, but a few mature and rational people could change the tone and content. If its only role is to clean up the other boards, it will call it a success, but it can be a great resource. Audiophile Style is the best and most knowledgeable website to learn about and discuss computer audio. That's why I was disappointed with the name change. Having Computer in the name had more potential to attract audiophiles who are interested in this newish and exponentially growing field. An hospitable environment is key, and I strongly support @The Computer Audiophile in his attempts to dial down the conflict and rhetoric. tapatrick, thyname, Bill Brown and 3 others 3 2 1 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
audiobomber Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, tmtomh said: Your comment raises an interesting question. The part of your claim that I have bolded is a claim about subjective impressions, but it is a factual and therefore objective claim about those impressions. Which I defended, two post above yours. Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Popular Post audiobomber Posted February 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2020 You are welcome to it, @MikePM. Audio Science Review Forum is a cesspool. I read the "reviews", but unfortunately best measurements don't translate into best sound. tmtomh, Ajax, MikeyFresh and 3 others 3 3 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Popular Post audiobomber Posted February 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, tmtomh said: This is an extreme, highly disparaging statement, and such statements require some evidence if they are to be taken seriously and not be viewed as bad forum behavior. So too does the placing of the word reviews in scare-quotes require some explanation or justification if it s not to be considered gratuitous nastiness with no substance behind it. I like reading Amir's measurements, but measurements and some verbiage on features does not constitute a review. For example I was interested in reviews of the miniDSP SHD, especially how it performs as a DAC/preamp. Nowhere in his review did he actually listen to the damn thing. When he does listen to gear, he only listens via HD 650 headphones, which as I explained previously is too limited to be worthwhile, and he devotes next to no effort to describing the sound. Of course many people there think DAC's don't have a sound, which may explain the lack of listening. Should anyone care that one DAC has 111dB SINAD and another 118dB? Other than Amir's measurements, the main topic in the ASR Forums is audiophile-bashing. Anyone making a subjective comment is piled on, and driven out. There are far too many examples to cite. It is a vile and hostile place to anyone who does not drink the objectivist koolaid, that's why I call it a cesspool. manueljenkin, thyname and MikeyFresh 3 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
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