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A Well-Sorted Rig


Ralf11

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Synoniemen van Hi-fi

 

Synoniemen van high-end
  • excellent.
  • fine.
  • first-class.
  • first-rate.
  • good quality.
  • superior.
  • tiptop.

 

So to me hifi is basic and high end is  superior.

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

high end is superior unless you are standing on your head

“Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not money.

Money is not hi end (yet).

Hi end is not music (yet).

Music is THE BEST.”

                 FRANK ZAPPA :)

 

 

@Ralf11 I hope you've assimilated lots of priceless knowledge from this thread.. :)

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High-end knowledge or just hifi knowledge? 😇

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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7 hours ago, RickyV said:

 

fidelity
noun U ]
 
...

fidelity noun  (ACCURACY)

 
the degree to which a copy of something shows the truecharacter of the original
The fidelity of the tape recordingwas so poor that you could not understand much of what was said.
 


I like this one - "shows the true character  of the original" - people are so down on speakers, 😉, but I have found that their misdemeanours are the easiest for the human brain to compensate for ... when a system gets into the zone, a particular recording "always sounds the same"; that is, its very distinct personality shines through, exactly as if an old friend is totally there, in the room - and the particular speaker used is quite irrelevant to delivering that message ...

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10 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

 

If you believe you are at the recording dead, this means your rig is ill-sorted, it's in essence that simple, Ralf. 

That could only occur if the recording were from the future after I'm no longer here to hear it.  Don't think it is a problem one encounters with real recordings. 

 

Not yet being alive is not the same as being dead. 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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19 minutes ago, fas42 said:


I like this one - "shows the true character  of the original" - people are so down on speakers, 😉, but I have found that their misdemeanours are the easiest for the human brain to compensate for ... when a system gets into the zone, a particular recording "always sounds the same"; that is, its very distinct personality shines through, exactly as if an old friend is totally there, in the room - and the particular speaker used is quite irrelevant to delivering that message ...


I am sorry I have my limitations with english writing. 
But what I gather from you text is that faults in speaker design are easy for the brain to compensate for? And that speakers are irrelevant to the delivery of the music quality? Is that what you are saying??? Or am I missing something, please explain?

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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58 minutes ago, RickyV said:


I am sorry I have my limitations with english writing. 
But what I gather from you text is that faults in speaker design are easy for the brain to compensate for? And that speakers are irrelevant to the delivery of the music quality? Is that what you are saying??? Or am I missing something, please explain?

 

What people normally assert as major issues with speakers is that the frequency response is not dead flat, that distortion levels are relatively high, and that the sound is not dispersed perfectly into the listening space. The first and third points really relate to the same thing, that the measured response at some point in the room is not ideal - but my experiences have been that one's hearing is extremely adept at compensating for quite huge variations, provided that the SQ in other areas is at an adequate level.

 

The distortion side is mainly about the deep bass - any half reasonable speaker produces quite decently low distortion above this region; and this is where it really matters, as far as producing convincing sound. A simple test I do is create a sine wave tone sweeping through the frequencies, and output to the speaker, at various volumes. How 'pure' is that sound, and up to what volume is the purity maintained? Trivially easy to hear how the bass starts to fall apart at some point, but beyond that region even tiny laptop speakers, 😜, do a remarkably good job of staying clean.

 

The speakers usually need tidying up, to get best results - I go inside, make sure the wiring is well organised so it doesn't flop around, and that everything, and I mean everything, is hardwired. I also go to some effort to stabilise the cabinet, so that the most rigid parts of the structure are tied to high mass external to the cabinet - and finally, condition the suspensions by heavy driving from cold, each time I intend serious listening. This I find is close to enough to ensure that when I listen, that I hear the recording, and not the speaker - assuming the chain driving them is up to the task!

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7 hours ago, pkane2001 said:


Does this make a difference to how a rig sounds?

Depends upon the fidelity of the rig.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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13 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

What people normally assert as major issues with speakers is that the frequency response is not dead flat, that distortion levels are relatively high, and that the sound is not dispersed perfectly into the listening space. The first and third points really relate to the same thing, that the measured response at some point in the room is not ideal - but my experiences have been that one's hearing is extremely adept at compensating for quite huge variations, provided that the SQ in other areas is at an adequate level.

 

The distortion side is mainly about the deep bass - any half reasonable speaker produces quite decently low distortion above this region; and this is where it really matters, as far as producing convincing sound. A simple test I do is create a sine wave tone sweeping through the frequencies, and output to the speaker, at various volumes. How 'pure' is that sound, and up to what volume is the purity maintained? Trivially easy to hear how the bass starts to fall apart at some point, but beyond that region even tiny laptop speakers, 😜, do a remarkably good job of staying clean.

 

The speakers usually need tidying up, to get best results - I go inside, make sure the wiring is well organised so it doesn't flop around, and that everything, and I mean everything, is hardwired. I also go to some effort to stabilise the cabinet, so that the most rigid parts of the structure are tied to high mass external to the cabinet - and finally, condition the suspensions by heavy driving from cold, each time I intend serious listening. This I find is close to enough to ensure that when I listen, that I hear the recording, and not the speaker - assuming the chain driving them is up to the task!

 

The funny thing is when it comes to  speakers I most certainly am an objectivist. If you see the response curves of some speakers up to 2500 euro/ set or something it's just sad. I think speakers are best example where one would want measure first or at least try to find a response curve on internet of the speakers of interest. Maybe not strange that speaker parts plus labor is only 20% or less of the asking price. 

Most common problems in speakers is probably phase problems in the transition area between drivers. Probably due to filter parts savings.

Still to much energy in the driver near filters drop off frequency. 

Time alignment of the drivers, all drivers mounted in the same baffle not tilted backwards (sound disbursement into the floor).

Certainly filter part replacement, bracing and panel damping will help. Usually I build a separate box for the filter outside the speaker but that's not really necessary.

 

The guy from GR research knows what he is doing.

https://youtu.be/isMTHfjF_zA

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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It depends upon what you want from an audio system - if meeting technical touchstones in the rig's performance is all important, then being fastidious about the speakers will be very useful; but if you want to connect strongly, emotionally to the captured musical event then worrying about speakers has very little value ... when you hear, over and over again, setups using speakers 100 times more expensive than you will ever use completely destroying the specialness, and the enjoyment of recordings that mean a lot to oneself then you tend to lose interest in the concept that speakers are the magic ingredient "that really matter!", 😉.

 

Which is why a "well-sorted rig" is where the action is ... someone who has never experienced the transformation in the subjective engagement that occurs when a system finally has lost enough of its key weaknesses, that allows a full blown illusion to manifest, will never understand the importance of this. OTOH, anyone who tries to achieve some milestone in any area of life, some 'magic' number perhaps of performance capability - and finally succeeds - appreciates the 'power' of that moment, the exhilaration of making that breakthrough happen ...

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