So I've had an EtherRegen in rack for 2 weeks...

[mansr]

19 minutes ago, m3lraaHnevetS said:

Therefor I suggested to Davide to stop trying and add users like Mansr, plissken and Ralf to his ignore list as probably many others have done. Am I not allowed to say this?

It's not very nice to jump into a thread and start suggesting that people put the OP on ignore. One might even call it thread crapping. You know, the very thing the loathsome "objectivists" are so often accused of.

[charlesphoto]

Speaking of thread crapping, I'm curious why the OP is over on the Naim forum posting about the eR when I seriously doubt he's ever had Naim gear in his life. Four post history, only about his negative experience with the etherRegen. And in the Roon forum and god knows where else. Starting to reek of an ASR style campaign...

[RickyV]

I am wondering why only the Uptone switch, there are more audiophile switches, sotm, melco etc. What has Uptone ever done to you??

[plissken]

27 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Speaking of thread crapping, I'm curious why the OP is over on the Naim forum posting about the eR when I seriously doubt he's ever had Naim gear in his life. Four post history, only about his negative experience with the etherRegen. And in the Roon forum and god knows where else. Starting to reek of an ASR style campaign...

 

The question is why not? My experience with the eR isn't negative. It's just not positive.

 

But there is a sure fire way to shut me up. Any takers?

[plissken]

So six pages and not one subjectivist can answer what are the knock on effects of two different switches wrt audio playing but no cable connected?

 

Not even one? I believe we all know the answer.

[plissken]

My motivations are clear, and UpTone seems most represented here, that there is a line in the sand about packet data, buffered, non-realtime audio systems.

 

You can't get better imaging, separation, slam, just because some data being read out of RAM was delivered with one switch or another.

 

Might as well talk about red vs blue Ethernet cabling.

 

The 'engineering speak' used to bolster this product has no instrumented backing. How do you solve a problem you can't even define or built measurement data for?

 

I at least have the intellectual integrity to state under what circumstances I'm willing to sit down and be proven wrong. What's yours?

 

 

[RickyV]

Well maybe because the subjectivist have heard the difference and are enjoying it. 
 

I don’t and most/ all of us do not have the know how or the know why it betters SQ. Maybe we do not care that much because our goals are met. Maybe people do not like to land in discussions they can not explain, we do not have the answers. I certainly hope that John Swenson would release his paper, but respect that he is a busy man so I’ll wait. Until then I’ll enjoy it and with me about 750 or so happy customer’s.
And your and ASR’s campaign is certainly not helping the release of that paper. 

[Ralf11]

I don’t and most/ all of us do not know that it betters SQ.

 

What you know is that you perceive a better sound - without a blind test you do NOT know that there IS better sound.

 

 

perception is not sensation

 

But if you're happy...

 

and you know it, clap your hands.

 

 

Plissken has done something worthwhile and valuable, while expending a lot more effort than someone who just buys and says gosh my confirmation bias sounds great!

 

I'd prefer to see blinded listening tests however, but I'm a subjectivist.

[mansr]

11 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Plissken has done something worthwhile and valuable, while expending a lot more effort than someone who just buys and says gosh my confirmation bias sounds great!

He did what we're incessantly told to do: try it under the money-back guarantee. What did he get? Endless ridicule. No surprise there.

[RickyV]

13 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I'd prefer to see blinded listening tests however, but I'm a subjectivist.

 

I am sure you have heard about the blind test done by alpha audio? The eR was not one of the contenders but the sotm switch was. I can't find the link but there suppose to be a English version of it. What it proves is that these switches do something or not?

 

What ridicule???? Where?

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, RickyV said:

I am sure you have heard about the blind test done by alpha audio? The eR was not one of the contenders but the sotm switch was. I can't find the link but there suppose to be a English version of it. What it proves is that these switches do something or not?

Do you have a link to the Dutch version? I can handle that.

[Ralf11]

or even better the Dutch & Dutch version?

[emcdade]

4 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Speaking of thread crapping, I'm curious why the OP is over on the Naim forum posting about the eR when I seriously doubt he's ever had Naim gear in his life. Four post history, only about his negative experience with the etherRegen. And in the Roon forum and god knows where else. Starting to reek of an ASR style campaign...

Lol.  Thanks for sharing, really puts things into perspective.

[firedog]

6 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Speaking of thread crapping, I'm curious why the OP is over on the Naim forum posting about the eR when I seriously doubt he's ever had Naim gear in his life. Four post history, only about his negative experience with the etherRegen. And in the Roon forum and god knows where else. Starting to reek of an ASR style campaign...

Maybe. But you are also directing your response at the individual and not at the issue. The OP is asking for a direct response to his findings and his challenge.

 

3 hours ago, mansr said:

He did what we're incessantly told to do: try it under the money-back guarantee. What did he get? Endless ridicule. No surprise there.

Agree. 

 

4 hours ago, RickyV said:

Well maybe because the subjectivist have heard the difference and are enjoying it. 
 

I don’t and most/ all of us do not have the know how or the know why it betters SQ. Maybe we do not care that much because our goals are met. Maybe people do not like to land in discussions they can not explain, we do not have the answers. I certainly hope that John Swenson would release his paper, but respect that he is a busy man so I’ll wait. Until then I’ll enjoy it and with me about 750 or so happy customer’s.
And your and ASR’s campaign is certainly not helping the release of that paper. 

And plissken is saying it is based on expectation bias, not anything the switch does. Anything can be "explained"-that doesn't mean the explanation is correct. You are certainly welcome to enjoy your purchase all you want. Saying it changes SQ is not the same claim as saying your perceived SQ is different when you engage in sighted listening. There's a nice listening impressions thread about the ER. This thread isn't an "impressions" thread, and it seems to me perfectly respectful that Plissken opened a separate thread about his experience and observations. 

[Jud]

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

But if you're happy...

 

and you know it, clap your hands.

 

I am, very much so. Entirely personal and subjective impression, of course.

 

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

Plissken has done something worthwhile and valuable, while expending a lot more effort than someone who just buys and says gosh my confirmation bias sounds great!

 

Was this somewhere other than the original post? Or was it the other side of the subjective coin? If the former, please point me to it.

 

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

I'd prefer to see blinded listening tests however, but I'm a subjectivist.

 

Blind tests with negative results must be considered subjective unless (1) The test is set up so as to detect failure to discern actual difference, and (2) The procedure intended to detect whether or not a difference exists has been proved effective.

[Ralf11]

you have odd definitions there, boffo

[RickyV]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

Do you have a link to the Dutch version? I can handle that.

Google: alpha audio switch test. You’ll get hits with that.

 

Goede morgen, mansr heb je goed geslapen met al die wind en regel?

[RickyV]

Plis

4 hours ago, firedog said:

And plissken is saying it is based on expectation bias, not anything the switch does. Anything can be "explained"-that doesn't mean the explanation is correct. You are certainly welcome to enjoy your purchase all you want. Saying it changes SQ is not the same claim as saying your perceived SQ is different when you engage in sighted listening. There's a nice listening impressions thread about the ER. This thread isn't an "impressions" thread, and it seems to me perfectly respectful that Plissken opened a separate thread about his experience and observations. 

 

It is a pity that plissken did make better use of his time with the eR and did a blind test himself. But I doubt that he would have heard the difference because of his objective bias. 

 

[mansr]

4 hours ago, RickyV said:

Google: alpha audio switch test. You’ll get hits with that.

If you want me to read something, you should make it easy for me to find it. By posting a link, for instance.

 

4 hours ago, RickyV said:

Goede morgen, mansr heb je goed geslapen met al die wind en regel?

Yes, thanks for asking, and good morning to you too. It has indeed been windy lately, though my city rarely endures the worst of the bad weather. I can read Dutch to an extent, but I wouldn't attempt to write, let alone speak, it.

[Jud]

14 hours ago, plissken said:

 

But there is a sure fire way to shut me up. Any takers?

 

This is what I was writing about in my last handful of comments.

 

- Do we know if your procedure will work to find a difference if one exists? Any data showing it does?

 

- Is there any protection built into your procedure against a bias that there is no difference?

 

Unless these two things are both true, what we have is an interesting subjective report that should be helpful for people who have found in the past that they have subjective tastes similar to yours.

 

Those like myself who have a subjective liking for the piece do of course have to acknowledge there are currently no supportive measurement data.

[plissken]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

Do we know if your procedure will work to find a difference if one exists? Any data showing it does?

Sure. If users are hearing a difference with it in vs out of circuit then my method provides for that.

 

[davide256]

10 hours ago, RickyV said:

Plis

 

It is a pity that plissken did make better use of his time with the eR and did a blind test himself. But I doubt that he would have heard the difference because of his objective bias. 

 

Trialing an ER now... I can hear something different but it doesn't smack you up side of the head as to what it is. About all I've been able to identify so far is that choral pieces with wordless harmony aren't annoying me now with borderline "out of tune" like dissonances. I doubt I'd notice the difference if I was using a stock power supply with the NUC. Which is to say that @plissken reported fairly on what he heard within the limitations of what he tested with.  Plisskens Optiplex setup is far more representative of a typical user, vs the audio enthusiast setup I have.

 

[plissken]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

reported fairly on what he heard within the limitations of what he tested with

 

What limitations would those be?

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

I doubt I'd notice the difference if I was using a stock power supply with the NUC. Which is to say that @plissken reported fairly on what he heard within the limitations of what he tested with.  Plisskens Optiplex setup is far more representative of a typical user, vs the audio enthusiast setup I have.

Most people who have bought an eR have audio enthusiast setups and you know the more enthusiastic the setup the better you hear differences. I am trying to choose my words carefully here, I don’t want to offend anyone or put down ones system but yes that could be the case.

 

[Ralf11]

The OP has his system listed.  

 

Good to see you don't want to offend, but please point out what components you feel are keeping him from hearing the difference the etherregn might make.