So I've had an EtherRegen in rack for 2 weeks...

[Ralf11]

easily inflamed?

[davide256]

4 hours ago, jabbr said:

Not sure about MEF standards. Are those for cellular? The standards used in my system are IETF. Ethernet -> TCP/IP. 
 

The “jitter” related to clocks is in the wire/Ethernet, but there are higher level possibilities. You could always use another protocol like RTP or Ravenna but that’s another level complexity and probably not practical unless you could really demonstrate an issue with TCP. 
 

Though consider @plissken’s example of plucking the wire: at 10G you could essentially transmit the entire song during the silence in between songs, and so playback might only occur during network silence. That would be a software issue ala NAA/networkaudiod or DLNA etc. 

 

Before trying to develop a new protocol I would want to see some hard evidence that it would solve a real problem. Does the EtherRegen repack packets?
 

 

MEF = Metro Ethernet Forum

 

we live in a commercial circuit world now where  metro Ethernet Layer 2 is oversubscribed at speeds below 10GigE , requiring customers to understand

their packet size mix when ordering a commercial circuit, else throughput suffers.

 

Switches move frames, inside of which is an IP packet. Routers (layer 3) can break packets into smaller pieces before sending frames, there is a more bit function

in the header to allow that

 

Again, a packet will be multiple contiguous samples. IP packets have no built in clock, thats application layer above the IP packet layer.

Number of samples (byte size) and clock method for a packet will depend on the audio protocol used.

If unusual network delay causes buffer exhaust, there will be a period of time with no data for the application to clock to output in real time

If you have sufficient buffer/cache capability you can eliminate network jitter as a factor  for audio as PCM tracks download quickly,

much less demanding than video.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG_transport_stream

https://www.vocal.com/voip/voice-over-ip-packet-structure/

 

 

[davide256]

I'm trying NUC with stock PS now alternating ER in and out of circuit... feels a bit like self mutilation having the JS-2 PS not in use. But I am hearing a difference.

On "Last of the Mohicans", if I remove the ER, on track 1 "main title", sound gets mushy, percussion loses sharpness and I hear harmonic "muttering". Sampling

"The Hobbit", track 5 "Axe and Sword", solo oboe attack is incisive with ER in use, dulled without.

 

Will try again later this week with a few more tracks but the ER isn't compensating for the degradation of using the stock power supply, music just doesn't bloom, lots

of irritants in the sound.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Will try again later this week with a few more tracks but the ER isn't compensating for the degradation of using the stock power supply, music just doesn't bloom, lots

of irritants in the sound.

 

Regens can't compensate for a crappy front end, despite what some may wish to believe, or others that insist that the PC/Server's PSU type or quality doesn't matter as long as the 1s and 0s spit out error free in the correct order . 

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

Regens can't compensate for a crappy front end, despite what some may wish to believe, or others that insist that the PC/Server's PSU type or quality doesn't matter as long as the 1s and 0s spit out error free in the correct order . 

 

 

what is the basis for this assertion?

[Albrecht]

13 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Regens can't compensate for a crappy front end, despite what some may wish to believe, or others that insist that the PC/Server's PSU type or quality doesn't matter as long as the 1s and 0s spit out error free in the correct order . 

Yes... I don't think that the pseudo-science trolls here understand that the etherRegen is not for them. It's not going to work with their rattling Dell optiplex noise-boxes. Likely Uptone can't get the forum monikers of those "buying" these devices, - but if I were them, - I would do my best to take steps to refuse to sell them to those who are going to misuse them by hooking them up to their junk. Foundry and Huawei also make much BETTER switches than the average home TP-Link $35 POS. But, - the trolls aren't crying about those.....

I find it ironic that normally some of these folks climb all over themselves to glorify the oligarchy: but when it comes to devices re-designed for high performance audio, they become the fiercest communists and whine and cry about prices.

[Ralf11]

shouldn't you post in the snark forum?

[mansr]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

shouldn't you post in the snark forum?

No, he's a hard-line "subjectivist," so he can crap anywhere he wants.

[davide256]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

No, he's a hard-line "subjectivist," so he can crap anywhere he wants.

wrong pew, more like this

 

 

[plissken]

1 hour ago, Albrecht said:

Yes... I don't think that the pseudo-science trolls here understand that the etherRegen is not for them. It's not going to work with their rattling Dell optiplex noise-boxes.

 

For one I've reported the post. Two I've decided to leave the post up as an example of behavior that shouldn't be tolerated and I would normally hide.

 

But it's best left up as a PSA.

[marce]

1 hour ago, Albrecht said:

Yes... I don't think that the pseudo-science trolls.

Who are you referring to here matey?

What pseudo science are you referring to...

[marce]

1 hour ago, Albrecht said:

 

I find it ironic that normally some of these folks climb all over themselves to glorify the oligarchy: but when it comes to devices re-designed for high performance audio, they become the fiercest communists and whine and cry about prices.

What like adding a dodgy wire clock to the inside of a basic router... A joke of a modification...

https://audiobacon.net/2018/09/28/the-linear-solution-ocxo-audiophile-switch-reference-ethernet-cable-the-missing-pieces-of-digital-audio/

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just for informational purposes, I've used a screenshot of a reported post. Identifying info removed were appropriate. 

 

The first report is correct that this post should be removed because it's a personal attack. However, yes it's plissken's thread and he has mod rights. He has chosen to wisely leave the post as an example of what's inappropriate. 

 

The second report, asking about denigration of setups. This is something I've avoided as setups aren't people with feelings and it's a bridge too far for me to ban comments about setups. yes, some take it personal when their setup is attacked, but most of us get over it soon. It's only stuff.

 

 

 

[mansr]

27 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The second report, asking about denigration of setups. This is something I've avoided as setups aren't people with feelings and it's a bridge too far for me to ban comments about setups. yes, some take it personal when their setup is attacked, but most of us get over it soon. It's only stuff.

You're missing the point. It's about people using the "you're system isn't resolving enough" attack, often with the implied or explicit addition that the person being attacked can't afford a "proper" system. It may be phrased in terms of someone's kit, but it really is an attack on the person.

[plissken]

To anyone that would like to GTG: I've zero issue putting my properly implemented file server and end point computer with ATX PSU and DAC up against any vertical appliance out there.

 

It'll be evaluated blind however.

[Ralf11]

and no one has been willing to state what part of your system is so horrible ...

[plissken]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

and no one has been willing to state what part of your system is so horrible ...

 

According to superdad it's the DAC, the computer. SandyK it's the DAC and Headphones.

[Ralf11]

I should have said there is no agreement on what the horrible component is, and most are unwilling to pick anything.

[The Computer Audiophile]

55 minutes ago, mansr said:

You're missing the point. It's about people using the "you're system isn't resolving enough" attack, often with the implied or explicit addition that the person being attacked can't afford a "proper" system. It may be phrased in terms of someone's kit, but it really is an attack on the person.

OK, I'm supposed to read into those comments that someone is being poor shamed? It's impossible to tell if any of us is homeless or living in an ivory tower. I don't buy that this is poor shaming. 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

You're missing the point. It's about people using the "you're system isn't resolving enough" attack, often with the implied or explicit addition that the person being attacked can't afford a "proper" system. It may be phrased in terms of someone's kit, but it really is an attack on the person.

 It isn't  necessarily an attack on the person , and is highly unlikely to be a suggestion that the person concerned can't afford a more expensive system. Many 100s of A.S. members for example, have demonstrated to their own satisfaction that commonly used computers such as the Mac Mini can  have their audio markedly improved by retrofitting a John Swenson designed Linear PSU and Fan controller.

Only those who believe that this kind of thing is Snake Oil are likely to see this as a personal attack about their system being inadequate.

[Albrecht]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

No, he's a hard-line "subjectivist," so he can crap anywhere he wants.

There is no such thing. Everyone is a subjectivist. The fact that some folks choose to make a subjective prediction from objective data is OK here: and that is the "crap."

 

 

[Albrecht]

51 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

and no one has been willing to state what part of your system is so horrible ...

No one commented on any one person's system. I was commenting on Sandy's comment.

 

There's nothing wrong with anyone's Sharp BoomBox here. That's not the issue, - the issue is, - are you going to misapply a device that was not designed for a boombox: (where it does not belong).

 

If any person thinks that I was writing anything critical about THEIR system, - that says something about THEIR insecurity. Which i imagine is a big part of a lot of these unwarranted attacks by the "so-called" objectivists  upon SOME high end audio manufacturers.

[Ralf11]

the issue is, - are you going to apply a device that was not designed for audio - like an optical router or cable, and use it to solve problems in SQ

 

 

[mansr]

26 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

OK, I'm supposed to read into those comments that someone is being poor shamed? It's impossible to tell if any of us is homeless or living in an ivory tower. I don't buy that this is poor shaming. 

Here's something I found with a quick search:

"Speaking of jealous, I sort of feel sorry for you. Your life seems so pathetic that all you can muster is complaints that someone has it easier than you. Sucks to be you I imagine. Maybe you should start a "go fund me" and perhaps if you really work it, collect enough funds for a new lolly pop?"

[thyname]

7 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

No one commented on any one person's system. I was commenting on Sandy's comment.

 

There's nothing wrong with anyone's Sharp BoomBox here. That's not the issue, - the issue is, - are you going to misapply a device that was not designed for a boombox: (where it does not belong).

 

If any person thinks that I was writing anything critical about THEIR system, - that says something about THEIR insecurity. Which i imagine is a big part of a lot of these unwarranted attacks by the "so-called" objectivists  upon SOME high end audio manufacturers.

Agreed! Spending twice as much on an Ethernet Switch than on one’s transducer (I.e. headphones), does not make sense. Money should be spend on better headphones first, then DAC then, Amp and so on. Only then an Ethernet switch may produce a benefit. It’s like putting racing tires on a Toyota Corolla. It will still drive like a .... Corolla