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Cleaning Records - what worked (well)


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31 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

The yellow plastic Spin Clean. It seems to work for other people but not for me.

 

Well, how about that ... I visited an audio conspirator today, still into vinyl - and the Spin Clean is what he uses, I thought his methods were more complex than that, but he's happy with it; though he says, Rule 1 is to get records in good nick in the first place, some will never come good because the damage in the grooves is far gone, and you may have to biff it ... Rule 2 is to take really good care of them, always store upright, etc ...the obvious stuff, 🙂.

 

There's an extension to the cleaning procedure which he uses, which I saw in action today - he didn't like the residue left on the surface from the cleaning solution, so after following the bath insertion turning he rinses really thoroughly. This he does using one of those hand held plastic showering heads, that fit with a hose onto the bath faucet; warm temperature, strong flow - while holding the record in one hand, you drown the record surface with water, moving alternatively close and then further away from the surface - pretty aggressive with the force of the water, meaning you have to grasp it firmly. Then, flap the record in and out like a wobble board, holding it either side in the palms of your hands, to remove excess water. Next, use the Spin Clean cloth to remove about 90% of the remaining water; don't fuss about getting it super dry this way. Last step, sit it in some sort of rack, vertically, and natural drying will mean it's ready to play in about half an hour.

 

Turned out the record he treated had lots of groove damage, so didn't gain too much ... luck of the draw.

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I doubt that the record cleaning machines have any special magic.  One could likely DIY for cheap, at some time cost.  A shop vac would do a good job of cleaning.

 

2nd, it would be nice to have evaluations of which methods & materials do the best job - either by some comparative listening or recruiting some bored grad. students to put an sem to work, and not rely on something that a sales dept. has created without any analysis or engineering work (sound familiar?)

 

3rd, with suitable scaling factors (non-dimensional groups for you engineers with a fluid dynamics background) the task of removing crud from the grooves (without damaging the soft vinyl*) is conceptually similar to geological processes in stream beds, and to washing a car (usually a luxury car)

 

in car washing, the idea is to remove crud without damaging the soft paint or even the softer wax - so I think that makes a good analogy

 

4th, for the anti-vinyleers - there are two good reasons to keep, collect and clean vinyl records - the release may not be available as digital, and the vinyl release may have better mastering than any CD releases

 

 

 

* the pressure washer comment above scares me

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If you really care, do the wood glue cleaning. 

 

Follow ups or initial cleaning can be done using Johnson&Johnson's baby wash.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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7 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I doubt that the record cleaning machines have any special magic.  One could likely DIY for cheap, at some time cost.  A shop vac would do a good job of cleaning.

 

2nd, it would be nice to have evaluations of which methods & materials do the best job - either by some comparative listening or recruiting some bored grad. students to put an sem to work, and not rely on something that a sales dept. has created without any analysis or engineering work (sound familiar?)

 

3rd, with suitable scaling factors (non-dimensional groups for you engineers with a fluid dynamics background) the task of removing crud from the grooves (without damaging the soft vinyl*) is conceptually similar to geological processes in stream beds, and to washing a car (usually a luxury car)

 

in car washing, the idea is to remove crud without damaging the soft paint or even the softer wax - so I think that makes a good analogy

 

4th, for the anti-vinyleers - there are two good reasons to keep, collect and clean vinyl records - the release may not be available as digital, and the vinyl release may have better mastering than any CD releases

 

 

 

* the pressure washer comment above scares me

I still have my 1985 Nitty Gritty machine. It does an acceptable job... but any fluid solution without ultrasonic agitation will leave residue in the groove as well as "critters"

growing on the vinyl. This is one of the better buys for those who have serious collections/playback systems

 

https://upscaleaudio.com/products/kirmuss-audio-in-the-groove-ultrasonic-record-cleaner-upscale-audio-edition

 

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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  • 2 weeks later...

With reference to protective coatings on records, reading this method from Discogs on how records are made does not include the process of sealing, other than rinsing/cooling the record in water after being stamped. Given the PVC used to make vinyl is impervious to alcohol, what is there to remove?

Given the vintage of microgroove records, such sealants would require nanotechnology materials which wouldn't have been invented in the 1940's.

 

 

 

 

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

manufacturing residue

 

I haven’t heard about a coating being applied.  Depending on the vinyl formulation there can be some segregation of softeners to the surface.  I expect it would be difficult to get that off without damage to the underlying vinyl.  I have noticed some LPs (Dynaflex, for example) seem to wear faster.  I have a VPI cleaner and use Walker Audio finishing rinse.  I use a laboratory cleaner made for polymers for the wash steps.

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8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

supposed to be a protective coating and manufacturing residue

 

so you think the former is not applied?

 

wonder if @gmgraves knows for sure?

The manufacturing process for vinyl LP's can use a mold release compound. I can't say that I have ever noticed this as a contaminant affecting playback. Wish the same

could be said for LAST record preservative. Other than the release compound, there should be no foreign contaminants on a new LP

 

Vinyl quality does vary,  original 50's/60's RCA LP's are very hard, durable,  @Solstice380 agree the RCA Dynaflex re releases are a softer, floppy vinyl that does wear faster.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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11 hours ago, One and a half said:

other than rinsing/cooling the record in water after being stamped

As a respondent to the Discogs posting comments there, there is NO rinsing or cooling of records with a dip in water. I have no idea where the originator got this idea from.

 

BTW, in regard to the "what is there to remove " question people seem to think that there may be some kind of coating applied to the pressing or that the mould is sprayed with something called mould release. This is also not true. However a vinyl mix for record production does not consist of pure vinyl or simply vinyl plus a colourant ( e.g. carbon black ). there are all sort of additives for various purposes some of which have dual purposes e.g. softening and also aiding release from the mould. Some may migrate to the vinyl surface or be there anyway ( the record surface is made out of that vinyl mixture after all).

 

In regard to cleaning devices such as the Spin Clean where the final spin to remove tap water does not get rid of 100%, the success of otherwise will in part depend upon the quality of the tap water. Where I live in a medium to hard water area one just needs to put a tiny drop on a black surface to see that as the water evaporates a residue of calcium is deposited. That will certainly cause noise on a record. There are potentially other things lurking in tap water such as bio contaminants which may be invisible to the naked eye and  harmless to humans but which can colonise your record grooves, again causing noise.

 

If a vacuum or ultrasonic record cleaning machine is out of reach then ensure that rinses are made with purified water and that as much of this as possible is removed by blotting with a lint free cloth before air drying. And only put the disc in a fresh inner bag when certain that it is fully dry, meaning the bottom of the groove, not just what can be seen.

 

Finally the subjective incidence of surface noise is also related to the dynamic range of the record. Hence listeners to classical music may find more to disturb them than to those of heavy metal.

 

 

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