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esldude

YouTube TV horrid sound quality

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I'm giving YouTube TV a trial (not to be confused with regular YouTube).  Picture is good, better than satellite TV.  Cloud DVR works well.  Things were looking pretty good.  Except they weren't sounding very good.  

 

Firstly you can't get Dolby Digital Surround, only stereo.  I could live with that.  But the stereo sound quality is awful.  It is hard, metallic, bright, and in short order able to cause a headache.  I've tried two different devices and that just seems to be the character of it. So poor is the quality that alone makes it a no go right now. 

 

Anybody else tried YouTube TV and found the sound quality to be like this?


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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1 hour ago, esldude said:

I'm giving YouTube TV a trial (not to be confused with regular YouTube).  Picture is good, better than satellite TV.  Cloud DVR works well.  Things were looking pretty good.  Except they weren't sounding very good.  

 

Firstly you can't get Dolby Digital Surround, only stereo.  I could live with that.  But the stereo sound quality is awful.  It is hard, metallic, bright, and in short order able to cause a headache.  I've tried two different devices and that just seems to be the character of it. So poor is the quality that alone makes it a no go right now. 

 

Anybody else tried YouTube TV and found the sound quality to be like this?

 Dennis

 What type of audio is it, and what is the bit rate ?

 

Alex


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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It shows to be using mp4a 40.2 which is a version of AAC for low complexity content.  I get the same sound whether using a Roku Streaming stick or streaming off of a computer with HDMI out.  I don't see a readout of the bit rate for the audio directly.  The connection is fast enough 60 fps 1080 is getting thru just fine. 


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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I have had YouTube TV for a year now.  I have 2 Roku Premier +'s, and 1 Roku Ultra.  They sound the same, and nothing like you are describing.  Yes, it's 2 channel pcm, and can't sound like DD or DTS, but it's coming.  YouTube TV says they currently have bigger fish to fry.  For now, I live with it.  I'm a big fan of everything else about it.

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That is odd then.  I currently can switch between the satellite feed, and youtube TV.  I also have some movies I could find and switch between them.  The odd man out was the harsh bright youtube TV sound.  I agree I liked everything else about it.

 

It sounds noticeably bad on news broadcasts, sports commentators, movies, shows or anything. 


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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2 minutes ago, esldude said:

That is odd then.  I currently can switch between the satellite feed, and youtube TV.  I also have some movies I could find and switch between them.  The odd man out was the harsh bright youtube TV sound.  I agree I liked everything else about it.

 

It sounds noticeably bad on news broadcasts, sports commentators, movies, shows or anything. 

 

Don't get me wrong, the sound isn't great, but not like you describe.  For me it's mainly the level of clarity, dynamics, and of course channel separation that are lacking.  One of my setups is running through a Panasonic sound bar that I like for what it is, and another running through my home theater rig with dual 18" LMS Ultra subs.  

 

I have 3 friends that switched to YTTV, and I'm certain they feel the same as I do.

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Maybe it is about the number of A/D - D/A stages the feed goes through (which includes your home appliance).

 

I have already mucho difficulty with recording the program say 20 minutes ahead in order to skip advertisements during playback. This should imply one additional A/D and D/A stage (the one in my SAT receive which can also record). Picture is poorer, but sound is so much more worse that I have difficulty to follow conversations.

 

Having said that, to me it is totally clear that the means which has been used at the other end, is crucial to the playback quality. Over here we by now have several "missed the program" services, and they all bear another quality. Btw, because this is so, I don't pay attention to YouTube recordings.

 

And oh, many real-time programmes these days, "time shift" the recording already, in case something bad happens (like Trump suddenly being shot which is not allowed to end up in the living room). These too already bear a poorer quality.

 

All 'n all, no surprise to me. It's how it is and it won't get better.

 


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PS: Encryption is also a deteriorating process, but it depends a bit on where it happens (we have the decoding in the set-top boxes, which is a pain in general).


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XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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You guys must just have lousy systems or lousy ears not to hear the big sound degradation then.

 

And no I'm not serious.  Just kidding. 

 

The sound quality I'm hearing is similar to SiriusXM radio which is also not worth listening to imo.


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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4 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

Maybe it is about the number of A/D - D/A stages the feed goes through (which includes your home appliance).

 

I have already mucho difficulty with recording the program say 20 minutes ahead in order to skip advertisements during playback. This should imply one additional A/D and D/A stage (the one in my SAT receive which can also record). Picture is poorer, but sound is so much more worse that I have difficulty to follow conversations.

 

Having said that, to me it is totally clear that the means which has been used at the other end, is crucial to the playback quality. Over here we by now have several "missed the program" services, and they all bear another quality. Btw, because this is so, I don't pay attention to YouTube recordings.

 

And oh, many real-time programmes these days, "time shift" the recording already, in case something bad happens (like Trump suddenly being shot which is not allowed to end up in the living room). These too already bear a poorer quality.

 

All 'n all, no surprise to me. It's how it is and it won't get better.

 

The signal is digital, if you store the digital signal for later or lag behind real time to skip commercials there should be no additional AD/DA stages.  None have occurred until you pull the data off a DVR disc or network cloud disc. 


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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I've asked 2 of my friends to comment on this.  Both are audio guys, and neither is very happy about the sound.  We will see if they side with me or you.  Could go either way, so I'm more than curious.

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7 minutes ago, esldude said:

The signal is digital, if you store the digital signal for later or lag behind real time to skip commercials there should be no additional AD/DA stages.

 

Yea, that's what you would logically say. But it isn't so. Again this depends on what actually happens and additionally whether encryption is in order or not (and do note that the encryption is dedicated to our places over here (Canal Digital)).

 

I am fine with the thought that all is recorded digitally and no A/D - D/A is in order, but then they compress more on the D-D job. One way or the other, it is about the number of stages under way. And YouTube is special anyway (and not for the better).


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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FYI: A bit depending on the software version (hence the year we look at), encrypted files (feeds) can't even be stored. They need decoding first and then can be stored (and that goes by A/D).

Versions that could store encrypted files have existed, but then they had to be decoded within 24 hours, or you'd lose them. The decoding was a separate process (a "run"). All sh*tty stuff.

 

Why is all on YouTube free ? (at least I think it is) ... because it is all as lossy as hell. I know, this is not A/D stuff, but still the answer to your quest.


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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47 minutes ago, esldude said:

It sounds noticeably bad on news broadcasts, sports commentators, movies, shows or anything. 

 Dennis

 Are you able to save a segment and UL it for Peter and the others to look at ?

 

Alex


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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14 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

FYI: A bit depending on the software version (hence the year we look at), encrypted files (feeds) can't even be stored. They need decoding first and then can be stored (and that goes by A/D).

Versions that could store encrypted files have existed, but then they had to be decoded within 24 hours, or you'd lose them. The decoding was a separate process (a "run"). All sh*tty stuff.

 

Why is all on YouTube free ? (at least I think it is) ... because it is all as lossy as hell. I know, this is not A/D stuff, but still the answer to your quest.

Now realize I am not talking regular youtube here.  Youtube TV is a different thing.  A service with streaming network television shows and movies.  Not uploaded, recoded, re-copied, multi-generational content on regular youtube.  That is then recompressed all over at the very end.  If I decide to keep it, which now I am not, I'd have to pay a monthly fee for the service to continue.


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Dennis

 Are you able to save a segment and UL it for Peter and the others to look at ?

 

Alex

I certainly could capture a Toslink output of the sound which I had in mind doing at some point. 

 

I should be able to capture the same segment of a show from both satellite and streaming youtube TV that way, and see what is different about it.


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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My first friend just told me that he would not describe the sound hard, metallic, and certainly not bright.  Depending on the source material, it can very from ok, to good sounding.  It's not as clear as DD, and the processed 2 channel pcm is not like DD, but he would not complain about the sound.

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Alright did some checking on this today.  Haven't captured the digital signal, as doing that is inconvenient at the moment. I did record using an Earthworks microphone 1 meter from my speakers (which have a response to 24 khz).  The Youtube TV sound via two different sources has a dead sharp cut-off at 15,700 hz.  Don't know why this would sound icky to me unless such a sharp filter in the audible band is the problem (such things are known to be audible).  I wouldn't think that alone would cause this, but it indicates some different processing.  The bottom end on some programming seems reduced below 50 hz, but that wasn't consistent on everything.

 

Recording satellite programming to the DVR so I could measure it after the fact for comparing to Youtube, response dropped off at 20 khz, and it wasn't a complete chop off.  General balance below 15 khz and above 50 hz seems if not exact very close to the same for both sources.  So not mystery solved, but something is definitely different. 


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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If the cut-off had been around 12kHz, I would have suspected the AAC decoder not supporting HE-AAC and YouTube TV's audio being actually encoded in HE-AAC rather than AAC-LC, so only able to decode its AAC-LC core profile which is typically at half the sample rate.


We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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