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Building a DIY Music Server


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50 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Looking forward to your tests.

 

To clarify:

 

I can only test single 19v in vs 12v to EPS + 19v to DC-ATX  and both compared to the unregulated supply once it is built ( to be tested on a single core i9 9900k based machine).

 

The list below was in response to @Marcin_gps's question.

 

50 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Ideally:

 

Taiko DC-ATX + DC4 vs Optimo ATX

Taiko DC-ATX + PHSR7T vs Optimo ATX

Taiko DC-ATX + Nenon's Unregulated Linear Power Supply vs Optimo ATX

 

I have the Taiko DC-ATX in hand and will try the with19v 10A rated rail of my SR7T soon to power my i9 server (not sure if it can handle the load but still worth a shot, as I do not overclock).

 

Edit: @Nenon that PSU is a work of art. Well done.

 

At this point, I do think the Taiko DC-ATX is a no brainer purchase even for those with single core setups and good LPSUs such as the ones mentioned above.

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As much as I don't mind spending money on quality of things that matter in life at a price point of 1200 euro or so this ATX is not a no brainer to me, some way to audition it would be nice.

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 7, Aorus X570 Elite, Corsair AX1200i, 8Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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33 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

As much as I don't mind spending money on quality of things that matter in life at a price point of 1200 euro or so this ATX is not a no brainer to me, some way to audition it would be nice

Absolutely. It would be great to try first then buy if the value proposition is right. I would invite you over for an audition but I am NYC based 😁. The improvement in my system has been worth the price, having purchased more expensive amps/preamps/dacs etc. 

 

Again, my situation is unorthodox as I have no cards externally powered via LPSU (most people here do) so perhaps the difference in my system is far greater than those with DC4s/DC3 or other high quality LPSU powering their network card/usb card.

 

I will get around to testing that in the future if there is interest in doing so.

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Living in the Netherlands where Taiko is based there ought to be ways to audition this PSU without travelling 8 hours ;-) (I used to frequent NYC and NJ a lot until this pandemic came around, so I would have taken you up on that offer)

 

Driving up to Taiko for a listen or loaning a unit is perfectly fine with me (or at whatever distributor they select should the busy work involved with serving us DIY crowd be too much of a burden, which I'd understand)

 

 

 

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 7, Aorus X570 Elite, Corsair AX1200i, 8Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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BTW, I would strongly suggest to test powering cards and SSD externally where possible...I recently added a nice LPS for my SSD and was shocked about the difference it made (about as much as powering it externally with a switching PSU)

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 7, Aorus X570 Elite, Corsair AX1200i, 8Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Hi Matt,

 

I am defiantly familiar with these two posts, I spotted them some time ago and to be honest they contributed to why I said this.

  

9 hours ago, OAudio said:

Important to remember first that there isn't anything mystical about c621 boards, they are just incrementally slightly larger then previous Xeon architectures. Threads on other web sites make it sound complex but they are just computer PCBs. These boards have finite and quantifiable load requirements.

 

There are some interesting points made in these two links but there a few tangents and assumptions that appear to be there, in order to make the argument that linear supplies can not supply the current levels needed by a music server without descending into mush :-).

 

This explanation is lifted below for instance which is just a nonsense argument. The math is correct, but no one would be stupid enough to apply a linear supply technology to supply 100 watts at CPU core voltage of 1volts ! Its irrelevant to any real world power solution for a music server (certainly one based on any commercially available motherboard). Nobody will every [be able to] try this for a simple reason. Motherboards have and will "always" use buck technology to step down their external supply rail voltages to the high current low voltages supplied that enable high frequency power efficient chip designs. They are required to meet industry efficiency standards and the drive in data centres to reduce power consumption puts further competitive pressure on motherboard, chipset and processors designs to do this. However the point and all the numbers quoted are then used to underline a notion that linear supplies simply cannot meet the high current demands and perform to the specifications needed for class leading sound quality. Just not the case.....

 

"As an extreme example, let's look at powering a CPU. A CPU typically operates at 0.6-1.2 volts but can easily draw 100 watts or more, let's assume 1 volt for easier calculations. For 100 watts at 1V you are talking about 100 Amps(!) of current. As current drops voltage over resistance (Ohm's law), a CPU is typically supplied with a 12V voltage rail, so we need to regulate 12V down to 1V. If you would use linear regulation, and you'd have a 100 Amp current draw at 1V, you would also have a 100 Amp current draw at 12V (simplified), meaning 12V*100A=1200 watts. Then we need to feed this 12V by a 16-19V supply (again to account for voltage drop caused by current over resistance), let's assume 19V as that's a very common value to ensure broad compatibility, and we are talking 19V*100A=a shocking 1900 watts. The conversion efficiency here would be ~5%, the other 95% will just be converted to heat. A switch mode regulator is the inverse of this, it can regulate 19V down to 1V at a 95% efficiency wasting only 5% as heat. That is a 1900W versus 105W of power consumption."

 

Buck and linear designs both have their challenges. They need engineered solutions to manage their respective design hot spots but for my these two posts far too quickly quickly adopt the message linear + high current = guaranteed noise and buck can perform better despite their many many challenges. 

 

Put and H probe anywhere near any DC ATX and it just sings with emissions. Even more relevant put a scope or analyser on its output and look at the characteristic of the switching noise breakthrough. Both these tests should really be done in a meaning full way, by which I mean whilst driving the intended load, a mother board's power rails. These spit back wide band RF and transients into the supply in question. Its really down to how a supply of any technology behaves under this condition (not necessarily in to a constant bench load) that will determine what the sound quality will be.  

 

I wanted to link another post, but just could not find the particular post in the long thread. In it linear and buck conversion are again being compared in the same vain. Some FFTs are posted for an example buck supply and linear supply. The buck predictably looks like it performs well al least under constant load and this is attributed in part to an unusually high frequency switch loop in the design (I am familiar with the device I think is being used which switches around 2MHz). The FFT of the linear supply that is provided in the post is however dreadful. I would hang my head in shame if a linear with that spectral content were being used in a supply here in the modules I make and these will supply 24 amps per rail and give the electrical characteristics I have mentioned in earlier posts in this thread.

 

The point is for me is that the posts maybe not be intentionally loaded to paint buck technology as the logic conclusion to the design decisions that have to be made, but I cannot follow the arguments and logic stated and accept that linear supplies are an inferior choice. I have some direct experience but to those that don't it all looks and sounds very complicated and credible. 

 

OAudio

    

 

OAudio Ltd.

 

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@OAudio

Thanks for your post.

 

IMHO, the Taiko DC-ATX is a much superior design and can not be compared to standard DC-ATX.

The proof is in the listening, that is what @Nenon did, comparing it to one of the best LPS (if not the best).

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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9 minutes ago, matthias said:

@OAudio

Thanks for your post.

 

IMHO, the Taiko DC-ATX is a much superior design and can not be compared to standard DC-ATX.

The proof is in the listening, that is what @Nenon did, comparing it to one of the best LPS (if not the best).

 

Matt

Matt, are there any technical specifications or measurements to back up the superiority of Taiko DC-ATX? I'm sure this would be of interest to averyone in this thread and potential buyers. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

JPLAY & JCAT Founder

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@Nenon has a great experience, I have zero doubts about this. But the fact that he got the Taiko USB card as a non-SGM Extreme owner should ring a bell. As you all probably know, the Taiko USB Card is not available to purchase for anyone but Taiko SGM Extreme owners. I trust that this special treatment did not impact his objective opininion about the Taiko DC-ATX, but I'd like to see more reviews and comparisons before calling Taiko DC-ATX superior to all products on the martket. 

 

Full disclosure:@Nenonbought many products from me. I have no intention to doubt him. But l'd recommend waiting for more user reviews before calling Taiko DC-ATX the best. I would like to see a comparison to my upcoming OPTIMO ATX. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin 

 

 

JPLAY & JCAT Founder

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6 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenon has a great experience, I have zero doubts about this. But the fact that he got the Taiko USB card as a non-SGM Extreme owner should ring a bell.

 

He got this card as loaner for testing from a friend who is an Extreme owner.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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24 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Matt, are there any technical specifications or measurements to back up the superiority of Taiko DC-ATX? I'm sure this would be of interest to averyone in this thread and potential buyers. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

Don’t bother. 

 

11 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenon has a great experience, I have zero doubts about this. But the fact that he got the Taiko USB card as a non-SGM Extreme owner should ring a bell. As you all probably know, the Taiko USB Card is not available to purchase for anyone but Taiko SGM Extreme owners. I trust that this special treatment did not impact his objective opininion about the Taiko DC-ATX, but I'd like to see more reviews and comparisons before calling Taiko DC-ATX superior to all products on the martket. 

 

Full disclosure:@Nenonbought many products from me. I have no intention to doubt him. But l'd recommend waiting for more user reviews before calling Taiko DC-ATX the best. I would like to see a comparison to my upcoming OPTIMO ATX. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin 

 

 

Nenon had the ATX way before the USB card. Also few posts above Nenon explains his friend purchased for him. So I don’t believe there’s a biased view. 

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I'd like to believe he's doing this purely as an enthusiast. But the fact that the Taiko DC-ATX order form is not available on Taiko website nor in the official Taiko sticky thread on whatsbestforum and was first posted here by @Nenon does not make him objective and this can't be debated. 

 

 

JPLAY & JCAT Founder

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On 1/13/2021 Nenon posted on this forum:

 

 

Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (Sean Jacobs DC4/Euphony/Stylus)> Lampizator Pacific

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39 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

I'd like to believe he's doing this purely as an enthusiast. But the fact that the Taiko DC-ATX order form is not available on Taiko website nor in the official Taiko sticky thread on whatsbestforum and was first posted here by @Nenon does not make him objective and this can't be debated. 

 

 

I don't think anyone is objective, I have however a hard time buying the suggestion hidden in this comment. @Nenon has been completely transparent about his affiliation and initiative and is also transparent when he cannot share certain information. I'm  not  buddies with him, nor am I objective either ;-)

 

 

edit: nenon shared the PRE order form, just to capture interest. Neither is WBF a 'DIY rich' place IMO, there is little point selling an ATX to folks owning an Extreme.

 

 

 

 

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 7, Aorus X570 Elite, Corsair AX1200i, 8Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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