Building a DIY Music Server

[MarcelNL]

6 hours ago, Exocer said:

CPU integrated graphics will work .

That was indeed what I was trying to say ;-)

[seeteeyou]

FYI - here's a list of Z490 / Z590 motherboards that either came with or without VCCGT (i.e. no VCCGT = integrated graphics couldn't even be powered on)

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16YJm4L1-ohpL8s-4rLDDDCBZvi97ZYwkc44s7LS5-2Q

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1746916-1440a-madness-z490-vrm-discussion-thread-v3-13-6-20-a.html#post28432822

 

Higher end z490 - why no iGPU support?

https://www.overclock.net/threads/higher-end-z490-why-no-igpu-support.1748442/#post-28467322

Quote

In addition it removes all the traces required for it from the PCB so they can be optimized more for CPU.

 

In addition, not sure if there were even a way to allocate memory for integrated graphics as shown on the right (i.e. amnesia without memory?)

 

[Exocer]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

FYI - here's a list of Z490 / Z590 motherboards that either came with or without VCCGT (i.e. no VCCGT = integrated graphics couldn't even be powered on)

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16YJm4L1-ohpL8s-4rLDDDCBZvi97ZYwkc44s7LS5-2Q

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1746916-1440a-madness-z490-vrm-discussion-thread-v3-13-6-20-a.html#post28432822

Touche! 🙂

[Gavin1977]

Now, should be possible to set up an old style Apple IR remote with FLIRC USB Universal Remote Control Receiver to control volume on Windows PC without much difficulty.

 

But, what software options are there for lossless volume control in Windows?

 

As far as I am aware Euphony, Audiolinux do not implement lossless volume control.  I used to use HQPlayer volume control, which was brilliant (and you could set max level as well), but seems complete overkill if I don't intend on up-sampling.

 

[Gavin1977]

58 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Now, should be possible to set up an old style Apple IR remote with FLIRC USB Universal Remote Control Receiver to control volume on Windows PC without much difficulty.

 

But, what software options are there for lossless volume control in Windows?

 

As far as I am aware Euphony, Audiolinux do not implement lossless volume control.  I used to use HQPlayer volume control, which was brilliant (and you could set max level as well), but seems complete overkill if I don't intend on up-sampling.

 

Should I add - 'system wide' lossless volume (if possible). 

[mikicasellas]

Good Day Gentlemen,

 

Has anyone had any trouble with Intel i7-10700k (125w TDP) or alike in a fanless case HDPLEX H5 ?

 

I built a new server with this CPU and yesterday when my SR7T arrived and connected to it, the first one hour while in BIOS, temp was very good 38 to 40 Celsius and then up to 75 to 80 C ( Red Numbers ).

 

This morning i dissemble the copper block, CPU and pipes and cleaned it very well so i could put some new Thermal paste, perhaps i put a little more on CPU and on Pipes, but it was worst, Temp when to 70 Celsius in a heartbeat, i had to turn it off.

 

I have been using the same thermal paste that i used on a NUC, and an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (65 TDP)

 

Any experience on this ?, Thanks

[MarcelNL]

is that temperature with the CPU in idle? Is everything configured properly in BIOS?

 

I am discovering that some incorrect BIOS settings or the presence of the Optane stick (trying to get Optane NVME to work on a new X570 AMD board to work) make the CPU temp go high even when idle without OS real fast (60-65'C). Now without the Optane and some BIOS settings changed all is back to more normal temperatures (40-ish), that is with the heatsink and fan, as the HD plex cases are not yet in stock in the EU.

 

 

 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

Good Day Gentlemen,

 

Has anyone had any trouble with Intel i7-10700k (125w TDP) or alike in a fanless case HDPLEX H5 ?

 

I built a new server with this CPU and yesterday when my SR7T arrived and connected to it, the first one hour while in BIOS, temp was very good 38 to 40 Celsius and then up to 75 to 80 C ( Red Numbers ).

 

This morning i dissemble the copper block, CPU and pipes and cleaned it very well so i could put some new Thermal paste, perhaps i put a little more on CPU and on Pipes, but it was worst, Temp when to 70 Celsius in a heartbeat, i had to turn it off.

 

I have been using the same thermal paste that i used on a NUC, and an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (65 TDP)

 

Any experience on this ?, Thanks

 

125W TDP might be too high for the HDplex. Its heat sinks are not the best. 

How hot is the heatsink when the CPU is 80C? If it gets really hot (i.e. you can't keep your hands on it) you might have reached the capacity of the HDplex. However, if it does not get that hot, then most likely something is not right with the rest of the components that are routing the heat to the heat sink. 

 

 

[bit01]

2 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

Good Day Gentlemen,

 

Has anyone had any trouble with Intel i7-10700k (125w TDP) or alike in a fanless case HDPLEX H5 ?

 

I built a new server with this CPU and yesterday when my SR7T arrived and connected to it, the first one hour while in BIOS, temp was very good 38 to 40 Celsius and then up to 75 to 80 C ( Red Numbers ).

 

This morning i dissemble the copper block, CPU and pipes and cleaned it very well so i could put some new Thermal paste, perhaps i put a little more on CPU and on Pipes, but it was worst, Temp when to 70 Celsius in a heartbeat, i had to turn it off.

 

I have been using the same thermal paste that i used on a NUC, and an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (65 TDP)

 

Any experience on this ?, Thanks

I have one  (i9-10900K, sorry) running in the HDplex H5 - yes if you dwell in BIOS setup more than a few minutes the CPU temp will shoot up.  The H5 passive cooling is undersized for this CPU in general applications. However for playing music (no fancy DSP, upsampling etc, in my case) the CPU heatsink/pipes remain cool to the touch - CPU core temps reported by Audiolinux are normally under 40C.

 

BTW - it sounds fantastic in my setup!

 

Hope you get it sorted & enjoy it as much as I !

 

ATB,

b

[mikicasellas]

47 minutes ago, bit01 said:

I have one  (i9-10900K, sorry) running in the HDplex H5 - yes if you dwell in BIOS setup more than a few minutes the CPU temp will shoot up.  The H5 passive cooling is undersized for this CPU in general applications. However for playing music (no fancy DSP, upsampling etc, in my case) the CPU heatsink/pipes remain cool to the touch - CPU core temps reported by Audiolinux are normally under 40C.

 

BTW - it sounds fantastic in my setup!

 

Hope you get it sorted & enjoy it as much as I !

 

ATB,

b

 

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

125W TDP might be too high for the HDplex. Its heat sinks are not the best. 

How hot is the heatsink when the CPU is 80C? If it gets really hot (i.e. you can't keep your hands on it) you might have reached the capacity of the HDplex. However, if it does not get that hot, then most likely something is not right with the rest of the components that are routing the heat to the heat sink. 

 

 

This is what Euphony is showing now !!

 

Im using a Asus Hyper M.2 PCIE card where my Optane resides but has no info on it yet, this might be elevating the heat

 

 

 

[Exocer]

Those are some high temps. Are these idle temps? or are you doing HQPlayer upsampling?

[Dev]

something is seriously broken or mis-configured in your system. You are almost reaching to a thermal shutdown point where the case won't be able to keep up with the cooling and the temps will rise slowly.

 

I run i9-10900K in HDplex case. The case is not optimal for anything greater than 65C TDP Processor. There is a bunch of Bios optimization that I had to do and run the clock at 4.2GHz given the power supply I have. I now run Win10Pro now and my temps are in the range 46-48C.

 

Earlier when I ran Euphony the temps were high ~60C but not that high at yours. One thing to note that Euphony Linux kernel is very old (not sure if they updated it recently) and lot of recent Intel/x86 optimization and bug fixes are missing. Later I tried a bunch of other distros, including AudioLinux which bought the temps back in ~50C. Audiolinux also sounded fantastic. In my system, I find Euphony to be bloated and after much experimentation I realized that Euphony is good for lean systems. For system which are already on the fuller side and neutral, you are better off with other OS.

 

Try resetting the Bios to "Load Optimized defaults". Disabling hyper-threading and Turbo and slowly go from there. I would also advice either AudioLinux or Windows for 10th gen and above Intel proc.

[mikicasellas]

5 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Those are some high temps. Are these idle temps? or are you doing HQPlayer upsampling?

Only Roon + Euphony Stylus Ep

 

Apparently these temps are with PC on idle, so yes

[MarcelNL]

meanwhile I finished replacing the 8 pin EPS and 24 pin EPS cable for UP-OCC, the last cable is still breaking in but the difference is far more pronounced that it ought to be😄

 

@mikicasellas I suggest you double/triple check all components and BIOS settings, that temperature is too high for comfort

[MarcelNL]

7 cores 15 threads, is that correct? Odd numbers? Should you not see 10?

[Dev]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

7 cores 15 threads, is that correct? Odd numbers? Should you not see 10?

 

No, nothing really odd. Its actually 8 cores and 16 threads which is exactly what i7-10700k should be !

[mikicasellas]

20 minutes ago, Dev said:

something is seriously broken or mis-configured in your system. You are almost reaching to a thermal shutdown point where the case won't be able to keep up with the cooling and the temps will rise slowly.

 

I run i9-10900K in HDplex case. The case is not optimal for anything greater than 65C TDP Processor. There is a bunch of Bios optimization that I had to do and run the clock at 4.2GHz given the power supply I have. I now run Win10Pro now and my temps are in the range 46-48C.

 

Earlier when I ran Euphony the temps were high ~60C but not that high at yours. One thing to note that Euphony Linux kernel is very old (not sure if they updated it recently) and lot of recent Intel/x86 optimization and bug fixes are missing. Later I tried a bunch of other distros, including AudioLinux which bought the temps back in ~50C. Audiolinux also sounded fantastic. In my system, I find Euphony to be bloated and after much experimentation I realized that Euphony is good for lean systems. For system which are already on the fuller side and neutral, you are better off with other OS.

 

Try resetting the Bios to "Load Optimized defaults". Disabling hyper-threading and Turbo and slowly go from there. I would also advice either AudioLinux or Windows for 10th gen and above Intel proc.

 

Im working on it as im writing this, let me finish and i will be back

 

Thanks for the support guys !!

[Topk]

Guide on how to use a high power/high TDP CPU (AMD 3900x, 5900x, 10900K, etc) in a Hdplex H5 or Streacom fanless case, without loss of CPU performance

 

I have 105w TDP 3900x in Asus ROG Strix B-550E and I can comfortably use it in a H5 case at less than 55 degrees, full speed, even if HDplex recommends a max of 95W TDP (and most people limit themselves to 65W TDP CPUs). No, you don’t have to limit yourself to lower TDP CPUs! And no, your fanless case doesn’t have to be an inferno...

Why does it matter?

 

High power CPUs sound fuller, weightier, more relaxed, more analogue, more inner detail than lower power (i personally tried 3700x vs 3900x). This is a very clear, very strong difference. I would only advice highest power CPU for audio PC after personal testing of different CPUs of different power levels. Lower power = thinner sound. Simple.

 

High CPU heat is also correlated with harshness 

 

 Process 

0) use Kryonaut thermal paste

 

1) use custom acrylic lid with holes, as suggested by Streamfidelity. This is critical to let the heat of the chipset, copper pipes, PCIe and CPU out of the case. The heat pipe system is just not enough

 

2) in the bios: lock the CPU core ratio to stock speed (eg 38 for 3900x). this will prevent the bios to dynamically change the speed of the CPU

 

3) undervolt the CPU by using manual override. The 3900x runs by default at 1.3V or more. You can safely go to 1.2v or even lower. Use increments of 0.25V and test for stability. By going from 1.3V to less than 1.2v, fully stable, my Keces P8 went from 4.5a continuous consumption to 2.5A, a -45% reduction!

 

On top of that, this technique gives more headroom to the LPS, boosting further sound quality
 

there’s no loss (or very minimal, a few percent at most) of CPU performance. Huge difference compared to underclocking where some had to decrease CPU speed of 50% or more to achieve heat targets. And huge difference compared to lower TDP CPUs.
 

In fact, you can lock the core ratio higher (ie overclock) if your temps are low and can go higher, and increase CPU voltage as necessary (which increases heat). I dont view this as necessary for audio considering the minimal performance gains from overclocking
 

Full CPU performance is critical for sound quality: more cores, more cache, more CPU power leads to a fuller, weightier, more natural, more detailed sound. It’s very obvious and correlates findings of many others like Romaz etc

 

this technique allows to have NO compromise sound quality in a fanless case.... you can even go 16 cores with 3950x/5950x: no problem (I will test myself soon but outcome is already known since 3900x/3950x/5900x/5950x are all 105W TDP with similar real life thermals, as tested all over the internet and YouTube)

 

next topic: importance of power phases, chipset choice etc.

[ASRMichael]

3 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

Only Roon + Euphony Stylus Ep

 

Apparently these temps are with PC on idle, so yes

Your CPU usage is very very high for just using Roon + Euphony. That kind of CPU usage is more like HQPlayer running DSD128 with ECC filter. 
 

I do wonder if Euphony kernel has full support for i9 10th gen. i know Dev’s had issues. 

[Topk]

4 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

 

This is what Euphony is showing now !!

 

Im using a Asus Hyper M.2 PCIE card where my Optane resides but has no info on it yet, this might be elevating the heat

 

 

 

There must be something wrong on how you installed CPU, thermal paste, copper pipes. I would disassemble and redo it carefully (check out YouTube videos) and use Kryonaut thermal paste. 

[seeteeyou]

IMHO this opened up a whole new can of worms, the same Linux distro turned out to sound different if we're compiling the kernel etc. on a drive that's powered by different external PSUs

 

https://www.stsd99.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=19613#p19613

 

That's pretty darn cool if those differences were actually significant enough to warrant the cost of a flagship PSU.

[MarcelNL]

@seeteeyou I may be alone here but I have a bit of trouble reading Chinese even when google-translated...If there is a suggestion that using different PSU's for the CF card creates different sounding OS for a Pi when using one and the same PSU for the PI, please try so for PC😀

[jabbr]

12 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

IMHO this opened up a whole new can of worms, the same Linux distro turned out to sound different if we're compiling the kernel etc. on a drive that's powered by different external PSUs

 

https://www.stsd99.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=19613#p19613

 

That's pretty darn cool if those differences were actually significant enough to warrant the cost of a flagship PSU.

Wow so that's amazing ... do you think that if I write the kernel drivers on a battery powered laptop they will have different SQ?

[MarcelNL]

it sounds ridiculous enough for me to try....Daphile is installing itself real quick but I'd need a really poor PSU to make most of the difference to increase the chance of catching it.

 

I recently discovered that playing files from RAM sounds better when they sat on Optane rather than the (externally fed) SSD...no, don't ask me to explain ;-) Let's wait for some of the objectivists to call nonsense and explain me why this cannot be true 🤣

 

 

[seeteeyou]

sha256sum DaiCosel/* GanCosel/* GanDaitron/*
9c163bb0c55e549aeedf97437c94efb95ef1043f61b94cb28d7e796c2d7284f1  DaiCosel/0.fat
4cbb497a9666eb1b908693009a5982cbf5a4bc0f64693ec0464fa74e07948a4f  DaiCosel/initrd-4.19.122v8_44k.gz
1f8d2e81ad08571f421dc322a7e88c6f50c87fb0ca2e347f5b74718754f34e3c  DaiCosel/initrd-4.19.122v8_48k.gz
f6cbc0bfb975ad9b882747e74d9b51fa435ddfcf6196687410c9dfc147c4b90a  DaiCosel/kernel419122v8_44k.img
68fbe95e0f9bce7fd8083b1b898a3c8d9247af056ea848bb6828d4eb49b2d74c  DaiCosel/kernel419122v8_48k.img
e5be39fa11123938c62947e818e2eaa503573d0066fe707daf059a2e77c71ac6  GanCosel/0.fat
3f8da38a89973eaac5f1cba9d66e2e9c8c242d0791e5bb9d149890dacd98b4bc  GanCosel/initrd-4.19.122v8_44k.gz
5147885bb60f58f612aa230a856832634e2d31f0b36ec544676cc2b8c43d8ec7  GanCosel/initrd-4.19.122v8_48k.gz
80ceaf4682b14b020b3419010123db6079f8893b9e2c58d06df108185bf1a92a  GanCosel/kernel419122v8_44k.img
99d11b205f25052f02f3420fcd9da0dc47294df112723d4ec6759ab8ef72ca7f  GanCosel/kernel419122v8_48k.img
7b9ff78b336332b228c7d623763474f48659657cc8658a12965c4dae3c3f2c7f  GanDaitron/0.fat
be392188a879d4bd88cd2c1c75cfa83c7f5c83effa78e32ccb8591aea9e23949  GanDaitron/initrd-4.19.122v8_44k.gz
d8cef1ba373c89fa011d5324ec67c66758a7b18e485fd8c6bfd8b57cd7432bf2  GanDaitron/initrd-4.19.122v8_48k.gz
c9bcdb5e5a8506408d68042e666e9acc04c53348d46454b440b5af84f6471da8  GanDaitron/kernel419122v8_44k.img
87a5bc973b91df3bc34c62bc8517c72fdd231a1cedf1502028bf503d65643a87  GanDaitron/kernel419122v8_48k.img

 

ls -og DaiCosel/* GanCosel/* GanDaitron/*
-rw-r----- 1 67108864 Mar 27 10:07 DaiCosel/0.fat
-rw-r----- 1  1103789 Mar 27 10:07 DaiCosel/initrd-4.19.122v8_44k.gz
-rw-r----- 1  1103450 Mar 27 10:07 DaiCosel/initrd-4.19.122v8_48k.gz
-rw-r----- 1  8890616 Mar 27 10:07 DaiCosel/kernel419122v8_44k.img
-rw-r----- 1  8890616 Mar 27 10:07 DaiCosel/kernel419122v8_48k.img
-rw-r----- 1 67108864 Mar 27 15:41 GanCosel/0.fat
-rw-r----- 1  1103867 Mar 27 15:41 GanCosel/initrd-4.19.122v8_44k.gz
-rw-r----- 1  1103275 Mar 27 15:41 GanCosel/initrd-4.19.122v8_48k.gz
-rw-r----- 1  8890616 Mar 27 15:41 GanCosel/kernel419122v8_44k.img
-rw-r----- 1  8890616 Mar 27 15:41 GanCosel/kernel419122v8_48k.img
-rw-r----- 1 67108864 Mar 28 06:02 GanDaitron/0.fat
-rw-r----- 1  1103906 Mar 28 06:02 GanDaitron/initrd-4.19.122v8_44k.gz
-rw-r----- 1  1103433 Mar 28 06:02 GanDaitron/initrd-4.19.122v8_48k.gz
-rw-r----- 1  8890616 Mar 28 06:02 GanDaitron/kernel419122v8_44k.img
-rw-r----- 1  8890616 Mar 28 06:02 GanDaitron/kernel419122v8_48k.img

 

ls -og *DaiCosel.img.* *GanCosel.img.* *GanDaitron.img.*
-rw-r----- 1 25000000 Mar 29 02:38 piCorePlayer6.1.0-Quantum_DaiCosel.img.7z.001
-rw-r----- 1 23524433 Mar 29 02:38 piCorePlayer6.1.0-Quantum_DaiCosel.img.7z.002
-rw-r----- 1 25000000 Mar 29 02:38 piCorePlayer6.1.0-Quantum_GanCosel.img.7z.001
-rw-r----- 1 25000000 Mar 29 02:38 piCorePlayer6.1.0-Quantum_GanCosel.img.7z.002
-rw-r----- 1   577603 Mar 29 02:38 piCorePlayer6.1.0-Quantum_GanCosel.img.7z.003
-rw-r----- 1 25000000 Mar 29 02:38 piCorePlayer6.1.0-Quantum_GanDaitron.img.7z.001
-rw-r----- 1 25000000 Mar 29 02:38 piCorePlayer6.1.0-Quantum_GanDaitron.img.7z.002
-rw-r----- 1   499435 Mar 29 02:38 piCorePlayer6.1.0-Quantum_GanDaitron.img.7z.003

 

Dunno what the developer did (i.e. other than having different PSUs) before / after each compilation, somehow he just happened to end up with different flavors of kernels

 

https://www.stsd99.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=19586#p19586

Quote

我把kernel大小和設定檔拿出來比對一次，沒錯。