Building a DIY Music Server

[austinpop]

33 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

i’ll have to see if I can get my courage together and go over there and ask nicely. 😅
 

 

Got a flame-retardant jacket? I've been down this path. It does no good. It's like a cult! 😏

[seeteeyou]

Basically the same deal, here's pretty much what we're expecting from LRoon

 

 

 

Fortunately those of us who are willing to go for WS C621E SAGE + dual Xeon Silver could get a copy of TAS at some point, its evolving user interface will look better than ever and eventually that's gonna be the answer IMHO.

[lmitche]

On 1/31/2021 at 10:32 AM, Darryl R said:

 

Hi Larry,

 

I was wondering about Bluetooth for mobile access.  But there is the distance limit, and my last few motherboards seemed to couple it with Ethernet, at least in the BIOS when I went to disable it after adding a fiber NIC.  For you hardware-smart guys that have a creative desire, homegrown gadgets are the ones that eventually become businesses.  Again, I keep thinking about that long interview with the owner and designer of Shunyata who said his hobby became his full-time job.  I'll look up USB OTG.

Yes, many small sized M.2 2230 form factor wifi cards carry Bluetooth radios that seem connect via a (Virtual?) USB controller. This is alongside a PCIE X1 connection to the wifi portion of the card. I have never tried bluetooth as a music signal carrier in a serious way, but will have a think about it. It could be a missed opportunity.

 

Curiously, these same M.2 2230 form factor pcie slots can hold a SDcard or micro SDcard which opens some interesting music storage possibilities, especially for smaller libraries with 512gb micro sdcards in the $60 to $70 range.

[Darryl R]

20 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Yes, many small sized M.2 2230 form factor wifi cards carry Bluetooth radios that seem connect via a (Virtual?) USB controller. This is alongside a PCIE X1 connection to the wifi portion of the card. I have never tried bluetooth as a music signal carrier in a serious way, but will have a think about it. It could be a missed opportunity.

 

Curiously, these same M.2 2230 form factor pcie slots can hold a SDcard or micro SDcard which opens some interesting music storage possibilities, especially for smaller libraries with 512gb micro sdcards in the $60 to $70 range.

 

I was only thinking about it in terms playback commands from a remote device, that limited scenario I described above where music is local, USB to DAC.

[MarcelNL]

1 hour ago, Darryl R said:

 

I was only thinking about it in terms playback commands from a remote device, that limited scenario I described above where music is local, USB to DAC.

that might be feasible, audio over BT is less likely due acc. to this :

https://habr.com/en/post/456182/

 

Big question is, is adding a BT dongle , likley via a USB port, to the audio PC doing more damage than using the network in a non continuous fashion?

 

I don't need USB as I'm using I2S for data to DAC, so I can shut all USB off after booting in the BIOS (makes an audible difference) and would like to be able to optionally switch off ethernet. That MIGHT be doable from within the OS/player software, occasionally streaming Qobuz/Tidal etc ethernet is needed, I wonder if adding BT would be worthwhile?

[Soul Analogue]

18 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

those of us who are willing to go for WS C621E SAGE + dual Xeon Silver could get a copy of TAS at some point

 

Could you elaborate on this?

[seeteeyou]

Sure, it's mentioned right here

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/69/?tab=comments#comment-1104830

On 1/26/2021 at 1:08 AM, Nenon said:

I do expect that the people who follow this build would be able to get a copy of TAS at some point in the future. 

 

The plan is that Taiko would provide: chassis to passively cool the Asus SAGE, Taiko DC to DC ATX, and at some point a USB card and TAS. Of course Extreme owners get the VIP treatment, and we would have to wait for the technology to treacle down to us. 

 

[seeteeyou]

Maybe they'll finally crack the code, though only time will tell

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-292#post-701507

Quote

The bottom line being, there is a future in sight where you do not have to worry about how you rip your CDs, or where your files are located, or whether you've copied them too often. We will however never be able to remediate differences in mastering techniques. Though perhaps by other means as here's a link to the first recording mastered using an Extreme! HELMET OF GNATS: TRAVELOGUE

 

[MarcelNL]

I'm following that thread for quite a while now, it is a mystery to me how it would be feasible to improve files that have been corrupted in the past without altering them (f.e by using a checksum from a non existing global 'master' database or something to repair them)...as much as I am convinced that the Taiko team knows what they are doing and they are auditioning all they do I don't understand this one, not one bit.

 

 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

I'm following that thread for quite a while now, it is a mystery to me how it would be feasible to improve files that have been corrupted in the past without altering them (f.e by using a checksum from a non existing global 'master' database or something to repair them)...as much as I am convinced that the Taiko team knows what they are doing and they are auditioning all they do I don't understand this one, not one bit.

 

 

The answer is easy! Taiko have the drive & skills to deep dive down into the known unknown! 

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

I'm following that thread for quite a while now, it is a mystery to me how it would be feasible to improve files that have been corrupted in the past without altering them (f.e by using a checksum from a non existing global 'master' database or something to repair them)...as much as I am convinced that the Taiko team knows what they are doing and they are auditioning all they do I don't understand this one, not one bit.

 

I think you read a bit more than what was written in that post.

Emile did not refer to fixing corrupt files. Whether the file is stored on a NAS, locally, or on a USB drive, or somewhere else, it would still be exactly the same file with the same md5 hash for example, but it sounds different. 

He is not saying that Taiko has found an algorithm to fix corrupt files. What he is saying is that they are into something with the TAS software that makes the difference of playing the same file from different locations vanish. 

[MarcelNL]

3 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

The bottom line being, there is a future in sight where you do not have to worry about how you rip your CDs, or where your files are located, or whether you've copied them too often. We will however never be able to remediate differences in mastering techniques.

You may e right @Nenon ; My interpretation was based on this part, which is from WBF. It would definitely surprise me if they found the holy audio grail of fixing previously damaged files.

The implication of saying that they cannot remediate different mastering techniques and not having to worry about how we rip a CD or how many copies we make seems to go further than sound quality not being affected by which location you are playing your files from. I assume in reality it means; all of this applies ONCE their algorithm is implemented on your system but I did not read that anywhere, nor does it matter for now.

We'll see, it would be great if it holds true...taking a couple of worry zones out of the equation is good enough for me!

 

[dctom]

On 2/1/2021 at 2:28 PM, BCRich said:

So here is what I ended up with. It went downhill from there.

Block diagram attached....

Upon power up of Motherboard the Keces smoked and in troubleshooting I managed to smoke the HDPlex.

Conversations with Arthur Power (Keces Rep) and Larry (HDPlex) ensued. Arthur felt the Voltage Regulator on the Keces went bad as I got a 41v reading with a Volt Meter. The HDPlex 300w Power Supply showed normal voltage readings even though I heard a pop and there was smoke. I should be receiving another Keces shortly and surprisingly Larry found nothing wrong with either the 800watt dcatx or the 300 watt LPS. My plan is to just use one input on the dcatx and only the HDPlex. As much as I want to take advantage of both I/O’s of the dcatx I am afraid I will kill another Keces. Hopefully I can take thing up a notch down the road ie: Hynes or SJ. I know Gabriel had success with the Keces but he had two of them.

I can go with 2 but I am hesitant at this point. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Mike

 

 

I had something similar happen with 2 mother boards, the first one shut down overnight and would not restart also the 12v on my PH sr7 stopped working not sure what the link was between the two events. The second time the MB just stopped working whilst playing.

I am using a HDplex 800w atx with my PHSR7 T dual rail (19v/10A,12v/12A) the PH voltages measure fine - the ATX 5v measures 5.27v which apparently is over what it should be. I am not leaving it on permanently - on the list for the Taiko atx.

Sound quality is excellent with the 19v to the atx and 12v to EPS.

[ray-dude]

3 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

I think you read a bit more than what was written in that post.

Emile did not refer to fixing corrupt files. Whether the file is stored on a NAS, locally, or on a USB drive, or somewhere else, it would still be exactly the same file with the same md5 hash for example, but it sounds different. 

He is not saying that Taiko has found an algorithm to fix corrupt files. What he is saying is that they are into something with the TAS software that makes the difference of playing the same file from different locations vanish. 

 

From my experience using the alpha release of TAS, above is spot on.  Very clever and very thoughtful implementation, with meticulous and systematic attention to every detail.  Emile and team are bringing the same focus to software as they do to hardware and system configuration.  

[seeteeyou]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/59345-article-reality-quest-going-to-extremes-with-the-taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-part-5-of-5/?tab=comments#comment-1053857

On 5/23/2020 at 2:15 AM, ray-dude said:

99% 2 channel through DAVE.  Adding TT2 to my headphone setup is a very recent thing, so I can't give a definitive comparative answer vs the NUC side.  Part of this iteration of my system cycle was to leverage the Monoprice slim run to run a long USB length from the Extreme to the TT2 on the end table next to my sofa (vs playing from laptop to TT2 to headphones).

 

There's also this OPTO•USB from Dan now, could it be a worthy replacement for a less-than-reliable Monoprice by any chance?

 

https://audiowise-canada.myshopify.com/products/opto-usb-optical-signal-isolation

https://audiowise-canada.myshopify.com/pages/opto-usb-specifications

Quote

*Monoprice Slimrun USB and Corning Optical USB provide 5V power from source to the client device via a thin copper wire inside the cable jacket. These 'active' solutions defeat the optical isolation with a galvanic connection. Even if the 5V power is injected from an external supply, the length of wire acts as an antenna to increase RF noise radiation and absorption.

 

[NanoSword]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

o the client device via a thin copper wire inside the cable jacket. These 'active' solutions defeat the optical isolation

You gave me the reason to avoid slimrun even the OPTO • USB Optical Isolation for USB DACs I am not sure if this extension is a good idea they will introduce their sound character.

 

 

 

[seeteeyou]

There's also this one with a SFP slot on each end

 

https://buy.tbfocus.com/item.php?id=637015014400

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=637015014400

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-742346-1-1.html

 

Here's a different chassis

 

https://buy.tbfocus.com/item.php?id=636388022226

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=636388022226

 

Then replace both of them with Finisar FTLF1324P2BTL-MC afterwards

 

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/faq/

Quote

Most of the Extreme owners use this:

Shopping list:
1 x Startech ET91000SFP2 Fiber Media Converter
2 x Finisar FTLF1324P2BTL-MC SFP modules
1 x Fiber cable at needed length, 9/125 OS2 low loss quality, LC connectors on both sides

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/sotm-snh-10g-network-switches-x2-the-new-king-of-usb-network-gadget-setup.27758/page-23#post-650478

Quote

However some friends and I in Hong Kong recently prefer the following Finisar and have already replaced all our transceivers with it.

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-202#post-652251

Quote

I received my Finisar SFPs this afternoon and have been listening with a pair in my OpticalModule and Extreme. I agree with CK‘s recommendation — quieter, very resolving, a very sinewy and lithe presentation with lots of drive and snap when the music calls for it. Otherwise, a very deep, quiet and languid backdrop to slow, contemplative pieces.

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-202#post-652266

Quote

I received my Finisar SFPs yesterday and finally had a listen today. I echo Steve's experience. Toward the end of the day I went back to the optical NIC in my Extreme for the first time since the Great Disruption. Too soon to say anything conclusive, but better than I remember with the Planet Tech. I'll do some more critical listen tomorrow

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-202#post-652287

Quote

I agree with Ray and Steve on the Finisar SFPs. The purity that comes through with these is something to behold. They revealed a coloration in the Planet Tech SFPs that was most evident in sibilance. Big thanks to CK for the recommendation.

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-230#post-664155

Quote

But The real game changer were Finisar SFPs recommended on this forum .
Spiritofmusic must try Extreme with Finisar and he will be amazed just like I was and many others.

 

https://detail.1688.com/offer/534646344847.html

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=35238177629

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=547319691947

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=573367408440

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=635306151943

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32691935325.html

https://www.tbnonline.com/Inventory/listItems?modelNumber=FTLF1324P2BTL-MC

https://www.brokerforum.com/components-parts/Finisar/FTLF1324P2BTLMC-eR-en.jsa

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/SFP-optical-module-FTLF1324P2BTL-MC_62474237265.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Finisar-FTLF1324P2BTL-MC-4-25g_62356831570.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Finisar-SFP-Original-FTLF1324P2BTL-MC-4G_60618660365.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Finisar-FTLF1324P2BTL-MC-4G-1310nm-4km_60094750751.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Finisar-FTLF1324P2BTL-MC-1G-SFP-Transceiver_1600167455999.html

https://www.opticalmodulemanufacturers.com/original-finisar-ftlf1324p2btl-mc-4-25g-1310nm-4km-sfp-fiber-optic-module_p902.html

[Darryl R]

On 2/2/2021 at 10:24 AM, lmitche said:

Yes, many small sized M.2 2230 form factor wifi cards carry Bluetooth radios that seem connect via a (Virtual?) USB controller. This is alongside a PCIE X1 connection to the wifi portion of the card. I have never tried bluetooth as a music signal carrier in a serious way, but will have a think about it. It could be a missed opportunity.

 

Curiously, these same M.2 2230 form factor pcie slots can hold a SDcard or micro SDcard which opens some interesting music storage possibilities, especially for smaller libraries with 512gb micro sdcards in the $60 to $70 range.

 

I was intrigued by the ADNACO USB subsystem bobfa is using.  It could work in my setup, but without Ethernet I couldn't go headless, and was wondering about any adverse sonic effects from long distance USB.

[Downtheline]

@Nenon, any update on your Taiko collaboration?

 

Here are a couple things I'd love to hear about: 

1) Updated availability time frame on the dc atx converter.

 

2) Confirmation that the cooling blocks will work for both the upcoming case as well as hdplex h5 (will be same cooling pipe size?).

 

3) You mentioned you are working on some more budget friendly diy cable options - I'd live to hear more as I'm ready to build an eps and an atx supply cable. Happy to experiment along with you. 

 

4) LTSC guide. 

 

Lots of questions, but I bet others share the same curiosity!  

[Nenon]

Here is where we stand with the DIY Taiko project:

 

In summary, the Taiko ATX would be available next month for those who want to experiment with it or use it to upgrade their HDPlex DC to DC ATX. Everything else is 2+ months away. 

 

Taiko ATX

If you have missed that, I posted a form where you can request one. Here it is again: https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=wAyHaKEU5EWxi4f_4gJE6LY6WJsC4qJJgufOWga3mOJUNlZSMDhBOEs5NVBVUDFKRENINlQzOVlZOCQlQCN0PWcu

Once you sign up, you will get an email with some more details. I believe the batch will be ready in March. See the Unregulated LPS section below if you are interested in the couple of early units that would be available soon. 

Here is more info on the Taiko ATX:

On 1/13/2021 at 10:22 AM, Nenon said:

Taiko Audio DC-DC ATX

 

Input Voltage:
- 16VDC min
- 48VDC max

- Input connector: Molex 469920610 (same as on the HdPlex)

 

Output rails:
- 12VDC - 40A
- 5VDC - 15A
- 3.3VDC - 15A
- 5VDC SB - 4A (this is a also available on the SATA connector as an always on supplyrail for a USB card or something similar)

 

Dimensions are approximately 170 mm x 78 mm. 

 

Other notes:
- A little larger than the Hdplex 400W DC to DC ATX but it has the same mounting holes, which makes it a drop in replacement.
- Amps are continuous ratings. 

- Optimal input seems to be in the 19VDC - 35VDC range, but that may change with more experiments.

 

Here are some photos but please keep in mind this is a modified prototype on which several components have been exchanged, hence the residual manual solder marks, wires, scratched copper plate, etc. The production units would be much cleaner / better looking.

 

Connectors from left to right: 6-pin DC input, 8-pin EPS connector output, 24-pin ATX connector output, 8-pin EPS connector output, 4-pin SATA connector output (with 5VDC SB rail as mentioned above and a shared 12V rail).

 

 

Price: 1250 Euro + shipping

First batch is expected in March 2021.

 

Pre-order form:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=wAyHaKEU5EWxi4f_4gJE6LY6WJsC4qJJgufOWga3mOJUNlZSMDhBOEs5NVBVUDFKRENINlQzOVlZOCQlQCN0PWcu

 

 

Taiko chassis

The drawings are nearly ready. I will have drawings/price to share very soon. That would be a one-time (for now) small batch order. I will try to get a count of how many people are willing to buy one. Make sure you get back to me when I post this. Taiko will order a few extra chassis but not a lot more.

My understanding is that Taiko will sell those at cost, with no profit. And I don’t expect them to keep hundreds of them in stock. It will be important to get an accurate count, so people don’t get left off.

Keep in mind that it takes about 2 months after the order is placed. Try to be patient. I am practicing my audiophile patience too :).

 

Xeon CPU coolers for Hdplex H5 case

Those would be available shortly after the chassis. They would work with the same diameter pipes as the Hdplex. But I think you would need new heat pipes, because the Hdplex are too short and are bent in a different shape. It’s unclear whether Taiko would be offering bent to shape heat pipes. They can certainly do it (for a fee) if they are not swamped with Extreme orders. I’ve learned a bit about this process while doing the passive cooling on my dual Xeon and can help with some hints if that turns out to be a problem.

 

Unregulated LPS

Due to some traveling and supply problems, my tests are going a little slower than anticipated. But I am slowly making progress and have a potential version nearly ready already. If someone has the Asus SAGE motherboard with dual Xeons already and is comfortable soldering some components and building the power supply I have in mind and is willing to work with me on the voicing part (meaning buying a few parts to change and test), please let me know in a PM. I might be able to get you an early unit. There will be a couple available soon. 

Transformers for the unregulated LPS were ordered, and those also take a couple of months. While I may share a simple version of what I am doing prior to the chassis, I would be doing the final voicing after I receive the chassis. 

 

Wire

20 hours ago, Downtheline said:

You mentioned you are working on some more budget friendly diy cable options - I'd live to hear more as I'm ready to build an eps and an atx supply cable. Happy to experiment along with you. 

I am. That's an interesting exercise.

The only wire that was an universal upgrade in my system everywhere I tried was the 15.5AWG Mundorf silver/gold.

When I discussed with Emile, he told me he did not like the Mundorf wire on the Extreme. The Extreme is so well balanced/voiced that almost anything you change would impact its voicing.

I thought a lot about this... And I am trying to "voice" the power supply to work very well with copper wire that is a lot cheaper than the Mundorf silver/gold. The wire I am testing is somewhat dark sounding, and using a little brighter capacitors brings a really good balance. It's not a wire I liked in my previous experiments. For example, replacing the Mundorf silver/gold in my system with this is a step down. So it's not something I would recommend to do in other systems. But I figured if the wire and the power supply are voiced together, there is a lot of potential. I like what I am hearing so far.

Lastly, this is not a wire available on the market. If it works that well, we'll find a way to bring it to the people following this project. But it's not something you can buy freely on the market unless you are a manufacturer and order it in the thousands of meters. 

 

Windows LTSC Guide

I have been putting some notes on this but haven't worked actively. I wanted to get the new chassis first, so I can start from scratch and document everything I do that makes a positive difference. I don't want to make any changes to my Windows, especially while using it to voice the power supply. 

In the meantime, here is how you can buy Windows LTSC (credit to @dminches):

Quote

In order to purchase a legitimate license for Windows 10 LTSC (Windows 10 IoT Enterprise) you must fill out and execute a Microsoft Customer License Agreement (CLA).  This will give you the ability to buy licenses.

I was able to do this through www.advantech.com.  They walked me through the process which includes filling out an application and culminated with receiving a document from Microsoft which needs to be electronically signed.  Once you have the CLA you can purchase licenses.

The license you buy varies based on the processor.  My guess is that for this project one will need a high-end license.  I believe the only difference is the cost.

 

 

I also purchased the license through Advantech.com.  The cost was about $150 per machine.  Once you complete the CLA process through them all you have to do is request a purchase order.  They are required to ship you the product key since it must be affixed to the computer running the software.

When you install LTSC do no use a trial version.  It cannot be converted to a full version.  You need to download the correct version from a server which Advantech will point you to.

 

[Darryl R]

29 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Here is where we stand with the DIY Taiko project:

 

In summary, the Taiko ATX would be available next month for those who want to experiment with it or use it to upgrade their HDPlex DC to DC ATX. Everything else is 2+ months away. 

 

Taiko ATX

If you have missed that, I posted a form where you can request one. Here it is again: https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=wAyHaKEU5EWxi4f_4gJE6LY6WJsC4qJJgufOWga3mOJUNlZSMDhBOEs5NVBVUDFKRENINlQzOVlZOCQlQCN0PWcu

Once you sign up, you will get an email with some more details. I believe the batch will be ready in March. See the Unregulated LPS section below if you are interested in the couple of early units that would be available soon. 

 

 

Nenon, can you please post once more all the spec info you have for the Taiko DC-ATX?  Thanks.

[Nenon]

20 minutes ago, Darryl R said:

 

Nenon, can you please post once more all the spec info you have for the Taiko DC-ATX?  Thanks.

 

Updated the post above.

[Nenon]

6 minutes ago, Zauurx said:

Iot Enterprise is intended for embedded or industrial PCs.
You can buy (like me) an official LTSC for a lot less:

https://www.godeal24.com/windows-10-enterprise-2019-ltsc-html.html?SID=c9598d18a7c1d01e37f65e74296b137d&___store=english&g24=bvs13&___from_store=fr

 

I would question how legal that is. 

 

Not an expert on Windows licensing but my understanding is that you cannot get a legitimate license for Windows 10 LTSC (Windows 10 IoT Enterprise) without signing a contract with Microsoft. That IMO makes any website that tells you: "The key will be sent via eMail. Please check the spam or junk mail folder too" illegal. There are plenty of those offers out there. I would not recommend doing that. 

 

Instead, I am trying to help people obtain a legal license. 

 

[dminches]

Just now, Nenon said:

 

I would question how legal that is. 

 

Not an expert on Windows licensing but my understanding is that you cannot get a legitimate license for Windows 10 LTSC (Windows 10 IoT Enterprise) without signing a contract with Microsoft. That IMO makes any website that tells you: "The key will be sent via eMail. Please check the spam or junk mail folder too" illegal. There are plenty of those offers out there. I would not recommend doing that. 

 

Instead, I am trying to help people obtain a legal license. 

 

 

Those licenses have likely been taken from machines that were taken out of service.  The instructions that I sent Nenon are for doing it how Microsoft requires.

 

[Nsxturbo]

Hi Nenon,

 

For those of us willing to purchase the Mundorf 15.5AWG wiring, will you still be offering the preferred capacitor selection for the unregulated power supply?
 

For some of us, we are willing to outlay the additional funds rather than compromise the performance. We early adopters, who already invested in all the Taiko Extreme clone components, and have realized sonic performance surpassing  of all of our prior DIY Music Server builds, are hoping to extract as much performance as we can.

 

I figure if I can get 90% or more of the performance of Emile’s masterpiece, for less than half it’s total cost of entry, I’m still doing great!