Building a DIY Music Server

[Darryl R]

34 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Yes, I did. It had a different noise signature. Some may prefer it, some may not. The more important factor in my system is to separate the USB card and the NIC on different CPUs and to optimise the interaction between the OS and NIC

 

The more we discuss, the more would could discuss in this thread.  Regarding noise in general, I was thinking back to not long ago, when many thought Intel Core processors and gaming motherboards were overpowered for audio applications, and some were selling smaller industrial motherboards with soldered Celerons.  One of the takeaways from Taiko was that bigger was better, but a managed bigger, as you state.  In a recent interview with Caelin Gabriel of Shunyata, he had a similar perspective, that our systems function in a sea of noise, noise of many types, and the goal should be systemic optimization as opposed to asking "what's the best DAC" or "which cable [singular] should I get?"  That said, Ethernet seems like a lot of baggage for those of us with local data who only need it for playback commands (occasional server management could be disconnected).  I wonder about a leaner subsystem.

[seeteeyou]

2 hours ago, Darryl R said:

That said, Ethernet seems like a lot of baggage for those of us with local data who only need it for playback commands (occasional server management could be disconnected).  I wonder about a leaner subsystem.

 

Moving all that away from the CPU could be a starter?

 

https://www.servethehome.com/what-is-a-dpu-a-data-processing-unit-quick-primer/

https://www.servethehome.com/nvidia-bluefield-2-and-bluefield-2x-dpu-offerings-launched/

 

And then it could be fun to put the workload of HQPlayer Embedded on the DPU while the CPU(s) could pretty much do nothing except for running NAA

 

Installing Debian on BlueField

https://docs.mellanox.com/display/BlueFieldSWv35011563/Installing+Popular+Linux+Distributions+on+BlueField#InstallingPopularLinuxDistributionsonBlueField-InstallingDebianonBlueFieldInstallingDebianonBlueField

https://hub.docker.com/r/mellanox/bluefield

 

Windows 10 LTSC 2019 couldn't run HQPlayer Embedded, that's why we're getting the best of both worlds

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/page/786/?tab=comments#comment-1105619

On 1/29/2021 at 9:32 AM, k6davis said:

I've been listening all day and I can report that I also hear the superiority of 4.9.0 over 4.9.2. But I can also report that, at least over here, Embedded 4.21.1 sounds even better than Desktop 4.9.0! Even more surprising is that the difference between all three versions (in audiophile terms, LOL) is pretty significant. In other words, the latest HQP OS/Embedded is so good that I can't "downgrade" to Desktop 4.9.0!

 

Something similar to this stuff might be somewhat interesting if we're going for HQPlayer Embedded + WSL 2 instead?

 

https://pypi.org/project/vfio-isolate/

https://github.com/spheenik/vfio-isolate

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/vfio-isolate/

https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/comments/gprjv7/vfioisolate_progress_report/

https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/comments/gcr6rj/announcing_vfioisolate_a_new_tool_for_cpu/

https://github.com/rokups/rokups.github.io/blob/master/pages/gaming-vm-performance.md

 

Manually download Windows Subsystem for Linux distro packages

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-manual

Quote

There are several scenarios in which you may not be able (or want) to, install WSL Linux distros via the Microsoft Store. Specifically, you may be running a Windows Server or Long-Term Servicing (LTSC) desktop OS SKU that doesn't support Microsoft Store, or your corporate network policies and/or admins to not permit Microsoft Store usage in your environment.

 

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, Darryl R said:

Ethernet seems like a lot of baggage for those of us with local data who only need it for playback commands (occasional server management could be disconnected)

Darryl,

 

I agree, ethernet is the root cause of many of the evils in computer audio. My suspicion is that it is the physical layer that causes most of the problems. USB has it's own problems, but we know more about taming them.

 

Lately, I have been thinking about building a switch using USB 3 instead of ethernet connections for the device end. This would be rather like an OTG connection for android devices. Of course there would need to be traditional wired or wireless connection to a router.

 

Larry

 

 

 

[Acholate]

Hi guys,

Recently, I tried to swap out my noisy high performance win10 server to i7 laptop powered by battery. I noticed quite an improvement even though I already have oR as endpoint. 

So I'm looking to upgrade my music server.

I'm curious which is the best way to power a server.

1. ATX LPS (very few options here I think)

2. DC-ATX converter then powered by LPS

3. thin-ITX mainboard that has DC out 19v so directly powered by LPS

I'm thinking going with third option here due because I think it is least hassle and cheaper than other options.

 

[JonD]

9 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Darryl,

 

I agree, ethernet is the root cause of many of the evils in computer audio. My suspicion is that it is the physical layer that causes most of the problems. USB has it's own problems, but we know more about taming them.

 

Lately, I have been thinking about building a switch using USB 3 instead of ethernet connections for the device end. This would be rather like an OTG connection for android devices. Of course there would need to be traditional wired or wireless connection to a router.

 

Larry

 

 

 

 

Well dCS would not agree with this statement. Their entire product range of DACs etc is designed to use Ethernet as the best choice for SQ. This is from the Bartok, right up to the Vivaldi.

 

I guess it all comes down the implementations.

 

[Darryl R]

31 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Darryl,

 

I agree, ethernet is the root cause of many of the evils in computer audio. My suspicion is that it is the physical layer that causes most of the problems. USB has it's own problems, but we know more about taming them.

 

Lately, I have been thinking about building a switch using USB 3 instead of ethernet connections for the device end. This would be rather like an OTG connection for android devices. Of course there would need to be traditional wired or wireless connection to a router.

 

Larry

 

 

 

 

Hi Larry,

 

I was wondering about Bluetooth for mobile access.  But there is the distance limit, and my last few motherboards seemed to couple it with Ethernet, at least in the BIOS when I went to disable it after adding a fiber NIC.  For you hardware-smart guys that have a creative desire, homegrown gadgets are the ones that eventually become businesses.  Again, I keep thinking about that long interview with the owner and designer of Shunyata who said his hobby became his full-time job.  I'll look up USB OTG.

[Darryl R]

45 minutes ago, JonD said:

 

Well dCS would not agree with this statement. Their entire product range of DACs etc is designed to use Ethernet as the best choice for SQ. This is from the Bartok, right up to the Vivaldi.

 

I guess it all comes down the implementations.

 

 

Yes, I thought about that.  Prior to the Pro-USB input module, the favorite input for the MSB was Ethernet, and even now there are some who refuse to make the change.  One customer comes to mind who prefered it because he didn't lose his remote, hardware-based volume control via Roon.  An MSB dealer did a detailed comparison of the Pro-USB and Renderer (Ethernet) input modules, and there wasn't a hands-down winner.  The argument by MSB in favor of USB was that their Renderer was "another noisy Linux computer inside the DAC."  I was slow to change my Renderer because it sounded great with the EtherREGEN.  It seemed Taiko landed on the side of USB input.

[seeteeyou]

34 minutes ago, Darryl R said:

I'll look up USB OTG.

 

I just happened to read quite a bit about that

 

http://www.bplus.com.tw/Adapter/PP3380-AB.html

http://www.bplus.com.tw/Adapter/USB3380EVB.html

https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/transfer-files-a-mac-apple-silicon-mchlb37e8ca7/11.0/mac/11.0

https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/transfer-files-mac-computers-target-disk-mode-mchlp1443/mac

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/120368/make-a-computer-act-as-a-virtual-usb-device-for-other-equipments

 

---

 

And then there's also networking over TB3 for a limited number of motherboards, though the outlook might not be exactly optimistic anymore

 

Thunderbolt 3 Ethernet not working after windows 1809
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/63626/thunderbolt-3-ethernet-not-working-after-windows-1.html

 

Thunderbolt Networking is Broken in Later Versions of Windows 10

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/thunderbolt-networking-is-broken-in-later-versions/3eb526ad-703b-4f04-84e3-a0a24529d921

 

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Raspberry Pi 4 solution with a highly-optimized kernel (Xenomai) for piCorePlayer here

 

http://www.stsd99.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=19458#p19458

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sam0402/pcp-44.1KHz/master/piCorePlayer6.1.0-Noel.zip

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sam0402/pcp-44.1KHz/master/piCorePlayer6.1.0-Noel.z01

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sam0402/pcp-44.1KHz/master/piCorePlayer6.1.0-Noel.z02

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sam0402/pcp-44.1KHz/master/piCorePlayer6.1.0-Noel.z03

 

---

 

Another choice is smpdplayer when we combine that with rpi4-uac2gw-aoe-b14.zip (Mac / Linux etc.) or rpi4-uac2gw-win-aoe-b14.zip (Windows)

 

http://www.hdvietnam.org/threads/raspberry-pi-rune-audio-mot-trai-nghiem-nghe-nhac-moi.1174389/page-1017#post-10503822

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/355137-symphonic-mpd-11.html

Quote

There is a derivative version called smpdplayer which uses the modules of symphonic-mpd.

 

---

 

Linux USB-Audio Gadget (RPi4 OTG)
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/342070-linux-usb-audio-gadget-rpi4-otg.html

[ASRMichael]

I wonder how serial port communication sounds! 😂

[MarcelNL]

isn't (at least part) of the idea behind the Solarflare FPGA card to take the network burden off the CPU?

Using the LL functions may go the opposite direction but if SQ is better the solarflare card can be used as is.

[seeteeyou]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/37/?tab=comments#comment-1084973

On 10/16/2020 at 6:06 AM, seeteeyou said:

DIY Power Cables - The "HELIX IMAGE" Power Cable

http://www.image99.net/blog/files/be8de0c383c5434907610d6b55049e69-75.html

 

Assembly of the “HELIX IMAGE DOUBLE/DOUBLE” interconnect...
http://www.image99.net/blog/files/4127b5fe2694586e383104364360373b-74.html

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/page/51/?tab=comments#comment-1086829

On 10/28/2020 at 12:28 AM, Nenon said:

My guess is that the DIY Helix concept has bigger advantage to AC cables. No motivation to try it with DC cables here. But I will try it on a power at some point. 

 

If you guys really don't mind your cables looking like this

 

 

Or this

 

 

Here are some nice benefits to be reaped

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling/post?postid=2098748#2098748

Quote

The Helix is just heads and heals better with either the VH Audio or Neotech copper wire with the Teflon insulation in place.

We are now talking about squeezing out even more performance from the very best many of us have ever heard or built. Don’t misunderstand the point of our latest posts.  The double helix design as outgunned cables selling for up to $13,000! This is reality. Yes, these are that good. As much as I loved my Acoustic BBQ Double Smoked Duelund cables I have to admit these helix designs surpass them in every sonic attribute important to us Aphiles.

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling/post?postid=2100498#2100498

Quote

On one recording I have of a classical quartet recorded in a small concert room, you can clearly hear a bus drive by in the background - something I had not heard before these cables

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling/post?postid=2100671#2100671

Quote

I’m already hearing what you describe, a car horn blowing outside, someone scuffling or coughing in studio.

 

Here's a little something

 

http://image99.net/blog/files/93d7ad0ec06707da1a861860d499fa6c-5.html

 

 

 

 

Finally it would be great to figure out if their AirLok were actually any good when compared to cotton etc.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/270/?tab=comments#comment-788550

On 2/27/2018 at 11:32 AM, auricgoldfinger said:

Our unique AirLok™ insulation is a proprietary form of foamed/cellular Fluoropolymer that achieves a dielectric constant of less than 1.45! By comparison, the dielectric constant of solid fluoropolymers, such as DuPont™PTFE, FEP, and PFA (referred to as Teflon®, when licensed from DuPont) is 2.1. A perfect vacuum is 1.0.

 

https://www.vhaudio.com/unicrystal-occ-silver-wire.html

Quote

The VH Audio HyperFlex™ tubing is a proprietary formulation of porous fluoropolymer with an extremely low specific gravity and dielectric constant. The result is a tubing that is as flexible as spaghetti, with a D.C. of less than 1.3.

 

[MarcelNL]

the helix is great for AC, and indeed less needed for DC.

Don't get blinded by Dielectric constants, unless you see them over a wide frequency range. IMO the best dielectric is Vacuum, the next best is air, as in as little dieletcricum as possible which is not always feasible. 

Also, if you can; add EMI shielding to your cables.

[MarkusBarkus]

I recognize this is a DIY thread, but FYI on a commercial version of this concept on various ICs and USB from Anti-cables. Does it "validate" the concept commercially? I have not used them re: SQ.

 

[MarcelNL]

@MarkusBarkus Just try it, you'll like the result! Pay attention to the naked cable and pick a nice insulator ( I suggest insulating your own bare wire) and play around with cable thickness, core material, Insulation material, and cable geometry. This one works very well! Using a Hohlleiter (core) makes it easier to create.

 

[ASRMichael]

@seeteeyou

 

What cable risers are these? 
 

 

[RikkiPoo]

I apologize if this question is out of line on this post.  

 

What is the benefit to using HQPlayer with Roon?  After reading about network noise and Roon I stopped as much as I could analysis by the Roon Core and stopped all upsampling ( was US to DSD 512 ).  Definitely ameliorated a recent problem where I was experiencing some edginess especially with Tidal and Qobuz after Masterclocking an Etherregen and SOtM switches.

 

I am not sure the source of the edginess but just guessing it is processor noise affecting the network.

 

If the HQPlayer is on the same computer running Roon won't there be the same processor noise?  If HQ Player is on a different computer won't it still inject noise on the network? 

[BCRich]

On 11/28/2020 at 8:15 AM, BCRich said:

HD Plex H5 Case-Custom PC Parts List:

• HD Plex H5 Case
• HD Plex 800 watt DC to ATX Convertor
• Gigabyte Designare Z390 Motherboard
• Intel 9900k CPU
• Intel Optane Drive 64g M.2
• Apacer 32g Memory
• Firewire 800 PCIE Card for External Hard Drives
• Power Supply: Keces P8 19v Ultra LPS & 300 Watt HDPlex
• Ghent ATX Cables - all Neotech and JSSG360

So here is what I ended up with. It went downhill from there.

Block diagram attached....

Upon power up of Motherboard the Keces smoked and in troubleshooting I managed to smoke the HDPlex.

Conversations with Arthur Power (Keces Rep) and Larry (HDPlex) ensued. Arthur felt the Voltage Regulator on the Keces went bad as I got a 41v reading with a Volt Meter. The HDPlex 300w Power Supply showed normal voltage readings even though I heard a pop and there was smoke. I should be receiving another Keces shortly and surprisingly Larry found nothing wrong with either the 800watt dcatx or the 300 watt LPS. My plan is to just use one input on the dcatx and only the HDPlex. As much as I want to take advantage of both I/O’s of the dcatx I am afraid I will kill another Keces. Hopefully I can take thing up a notch down the road ie: Hynes or SJ. I know Gabriel had success with the Keces but he had two of them.

I can go with 2 but I am hesitant at this point. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Mike

[guiltyboxswapper]

17 minutes ago, BCRich said:

I can go with 2 but I am hesitant at this point. Any thoughts?

 

 

I'm using a HDPlex 500w for months now, it claims no DC-DC internally (direct rails) on product page and sound wonderful. 

 

Got a nice bump by plugging both the PCIE 12v and the CPU 12v rail into both ATX12v (CPU) sockets, and its running a Ryzen 3900x at stock with turbo disabled with HQPlayer embedded.  

 

It's simple too (you won't need a HDPlex 800w DC-DC).

[BCRich]

24 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

 

I'm using a HDPlex 500w for months now, it claims no DC-DC internally (direct rails) on product page and sound wonderful. 

 

Got a nice bump by plugging both the PCIE 12v and the CPU 12v rail into both ATX12v (CPU) sockets, and its running a Ryzen 3900x at stock with turbo disabled with HQPlayer embedded.  

 

It's simple too (you won't need a HDPlex 800w DC-DC).

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind. I know they are on Back Order right now.

[elan120]

39 minutes ago, BCRich said:

Any thoughts?

I had similar setup as yours at one point, same everything except I was using two P8 feeding the HDPlex.  The improvement that I consider is sizeable came when I changed to one SJ power supply feeding directly to the EPS 8 pin input and later another notch forward when another SJ power supply feeding the 24 pin ATX input.  At this point, I don't feel the need to feed both EPS inputs.

[BCRich]

44 minutes ago, elan120 said:

At this point, I don't feel the need to feed both EPS inputs.

Thanks, from what I gather it’s recommended if you are Overclocking. I’m sure at some point I will make a move to either a Paul Hynes or SJ. I’m always looking to improve.

[guiltyboxswapper]

2 minutes ago, BCRich said:

Thanks, from what I gather it’s recommended if you are Overclocking. I’m sure at some point I will make a move to either a Paul Hynes or SJ. I’m always looking to improve.

 

If you have the available 12v rails to hand, its really worth trying - was night/day in my case. 

 

Seems CPUs are much more current greedy than we imagined (even if they do work with a single 12a/12v rail).  

[Downtheline]

1 hour ago, BCRich said:

I can go with 2 but I am hesitant at this point. Any thoughts?

I just went from a single p8 powering an hdplex 800w dc to atx to now a dual rail paul hynes sr7t powering the atx converter and the eps.  It is a significant step up in sound quality. Though I did enjoy the p8. 

 

I would really consider getting on the list for the taiko dc to atx converter. Power that with a p8, then wait to see if you'll need an upgrade in lps at that time. You may not, or may try a single rail upgrade. 

[BCRich]

10 minutes ago, Downtheline said:

I just went from a single p8 powering an hdplex 800w dc to atx to now a dual rail paul hynes sr7t powering the atx converter and the eps.  It is a significant step up in sound quality. Though I did enjoy the p8. 

 

I would really consider getting on the list for the taiko dc to atx converter. Power that with a p8, then wait to see if you'll need an upgrade in lps at that time. You may not, or may try a single rail upgrade. 

Thanks.....lots of options. I’m waiting to get everything back and go from there.

[drjimwillie]

I went over and asked Jussi how Roon communicates with HQPayer. It sounds like the worst case scenario.

Roon interacts with the file or the stream and converts it, if it has to, and delivers it as a stream to HQplayer, no matter where it is.  Even if it is in the same server.

 

I asked the question in three different posts, with as much detail as I could, The last question is the link above.

 

Now it looks like the only way to get Roon to just curate the stream or file and hand it over as a URL to a player like you Euphony, would be for Roon two make another product or service available. 
 

i’ll have to see if I can get my courage together and go over there and ask nicely. 😅
 

At least my question is answered. It was a nice dream.